Charles Spurgeon
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Do you know for sure you are saved?
- Thread starter Danus
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Danus
Member
Thanks, to those of you who answered this question. I thought it would have filled up with more responses, but I'm not surprised either. I think many chose to avoid it, but some of you where more bold, and it speaks to your assurance either way.
" Do you know for sure you are saved?"
It's a simple question, and one I have been weaving into conversations I have in the real world with just about anyone.
.....yep.
Now I know some of you might think it's an uncomfortable question to ask just anyone, and I assure you I do not just assault anyone with the question, but as I said....I weave it in, and the answers back are very interesting, because they tell me allot about that persons heart and relationship with God.
A person can avoid the question, but they can't sugar coat the answer. It's either YES or NO.
Do I know for sure I am saved? Yes. I could not answer No if I tried, but there was a time when I would have answered; "No, I don't believe in that stuff anyway."....oddly, I went from that to a solid Yes, and I did not experience anything in between, because there is nothing in between.
Yes, I know I'm saved, or No I don't know I'm saved. No is no, and yes is yes, and that's it. Doubt...is No, but ones answer of No dose not mean they are not saved, it just means they don't know.
For those who don't believe in this "stuff" we call salvation, and who answer No to this question; you are honest. That's is acceptable and makes perfect sense, because the bible does say that not everyone is saved, but for those of you who believe in God, who claim to love God and follow Christ, and say they have accepted him in their life....and say NO, they do not know for sure they are saved, or that they can't know; you have already lumped yourself in with NON BELIEVERS, and I have to wonder why they also want to lump themselves in with believers
:.
My yes to this question, and I'll speak for others who answered yes, is not indicative of the others who answer yes, or those who say I can't know. It's "yes" even if I where the only one in the world who claimed yes.
The YES answers are usually just that..."YES"; and that's about it. Those who answer yes in the real world, I see them just smile and say "Yes", and I see the warmth of their faces. They don't explain it because they know they don't have to, just Yes, But the No's are more interesting.
People who say No, do it in a variety of ways, but always their faces tell me something. I get looks first. frowns, shock, surprise, angrily brows, and sometimes confused looks.
Some will simply say; "I don't believe that stuff.", but most will offer a lengthy explanation to their "no". They will most always want to say NO, and then feel the need to back that up with evidence; some of witch we've seen on this thread already.
But, I find that odd that anyone who answers NO needs to back the No up. Fact is, I believe the people who say NO, and I believe them because the bible says some are not saved, and if your not saved how can you possible know for sure you are? You can't, and if Christ is not convincing enough to the unsaved then the answer should be NO...."NO", I do not know for sure I am saved. That seems fair for anyone who is not saved, but it's an utterly ridiculous answer for anyone who is saved, or who claims to be saved, to answer, "NO".
It's one thing to have doubts, but it's another to trust in doubt when God says otherwise; otherwise the answer should be NO.
The Bible makes it very clear that we can know if we are saved. 1 John 5:13 states, "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."
From Acts 2:38 and Eph. 1:13 we see that, when we repent and believe, we receive the Holy Spirit, and the following verse tells us that, through the Spirit, we can know that we are saved. 1 John 4:13 says "We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit." From this verse alone we can see that the proof of our salvation is the presence of Jesus’ Spirit in our life, and with that the answer to the question is Yes; without that spirit the answer should be NO.
So, let's open this up; and by the way, there is a second half to the first question, regardless of your answer and here it is.
How do you know?
If you will, take your yes or no answer and answer the second half; How do you know?
" Do you know for sure you are saved?"
It's a simple question, and one I have been weaving into conversations I have in the real world with just about anyone.
.....yep. Now I know some of you might think it's an uncomfortable question to ask just anyone, and I assure you I do not just assault anyone with the question, but as I said....I weave it in, and the answers back are very interesting, because they tell me allot about that persons heart and relationship with God.
A person can avoid the question, but they can't sugar coat the answer. It's either YES or NO.
Do I know for sure I am saved? Yes. I could not answer No if I tried, but there was a time when I would have answered; "No, I don't believe in that stuff anyway."....oddly, I went from that to a solid Yes, and I did not experience anything in between, because there is nothing in between.
Yes, I know I'm saved, or No I don't know I'm saved. No is no, and yes is yes, and that's it. Doubt...is No, but ones answer of No dose not mean they are not saved, it just means they don't know.
For those who don't believe in this "stuff" we call salvation, and who answer No to this question; you are honest. That's is acceptable and makes perfect sense, because the bible does say that not everyone is saved, but for those of you who believe in God, who claim to love God and follow Christ, and say they have accepted him in their life....and say NO, they do not know for sure they are saved, or that they can't know; you have already lumped yourself in with NON BELIEVERS, and I have to wonder why they also want to lump themselves in with believers
:. My yes to this question, and I'll speak for others who answered yes, is not indicative of the others who answer yes, or those who say I can't know. It's "yes" even if I where the only one in the world who claimed yes.
The YES answers are usually just that..."YES"; and that's about it. Those who answer yes in the real world, I see them just smile and say "Yes", and I see the warmth of their faces. They don't explain it because they know they don't have to, just Yes, But the No's are more interesting.
People who say No, do it in a variety of ways, but always their faces tell me something. I get looks first. frowns, shock, surprise, angrily brows, and sometimes confused looks.
Some will simply say; "I don't believe that stuff.", but most will offer a lengthy explanation to their "no". They will most always want to say NO, and then feel the need to back that up with evidence; some of witch we've seen on this thread already.
But, I find that odd that anyone who answers NO needs to back the No up. Fact is, I believe the people who say NO, and I believe them because the bible says some are not saved, and if your not saved how can you possible know for sure you are? You can't, and if Christ is not convincing enough to the unsaved then the answer should be NO...."NO", I do not know for sure I am saved. That seems fair for anyone who is not saved, but it's an utterly ridiculous answer for anyone who is saved, or who claims to be saved, to answer, "NO".
It's one thing to have doubts, but it's another to trust in doubt when God says otherwise; otherwise the answer should be NO.
The Bible makes it very clear that we can know if we are saved. 1 John 5:13 states, "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."
From Acts 2:38 and Eph. 1:13 we see that, when we repent and believe, we receive the Holy Spirit, and the following verse tells us that, through the Spirit, we can know that we are saved. 1 John 4:13 says "We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit." From this verse alone we can see that the proof of our salvation is the presence of Jesus’ Spirit in our life, and with that the answer to the question is Yes; without that spirit the answer should be NO.
So, let's open this up; and by the way, there is a second half to the first question, regardless of your answer and here it is.
How do you know?
If you will, take your yes or no answer and answer the second half; How do you know?
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Danus
Member
Amazing. 521 reads to date, only 21 responses, and this thread is only 2 weeks old on a Christian forum. :
The original question is "Do you know for sure you are saved?" and the follow up, regardless of the answer one has, is "How do you know?"
I would think this would be an easy question for anyone to answer regardless of what they believe, but it seems to be the "third rail"
If you know you are saved, or if you don't know you are saved, how do you know or not know? Anyone? .....anyone? .....Bueller?
:The original question is "Do you know for sure you are saved?" and the follow up, regardless of the answer one has, is "How do you know?"
I would think this would be an easy question for anyone to answer regardless of what they believe, but it seems to be the "third rail"
If you know you are saved, or if you don't know you are saved, how do you know or not know? Anyone? .....anyone? .....Bueller?
Oh, I'm sorry...I guess I missed that one post with the question, somehow.
I know I'm saved because the Holy Spirit has at times dealt with me, taught me, chastened me, comforted me, and reassured me.
I know I'm saved because the Holy Spirit has at times dealt with me, taught me, chastened me, comforted me, and reassured me.
E
elijah23
Guest
I trust the Lord to be just. When I sin, I expect to be disciplined. When I resist temptation, I know the Lord will treat me as such.
westtexas
Member
Sorry Danus, I didn't realize there was a second part to the question. No wonder I always got 50's in high school! I probably only answered half of the question back then too.
Anyway, i know I'm saved because God's Word promises me that I am. His promises are throughout scripture. I'll list Romans 10:9 but we can quote many more.
Westtexas
Yes, I know in my heart that I am saved. Why? I just know.
I know my parents loved me. My parents were not the touchy-feely type. I don't recall ever getting a hug from my mother or father. Maybe when I was really young they did but I don't remember it. My parents were never the type to verbally express their love to us children but they didn't have to. I knew they loved me. I knew it by the way they treated me, taught me, led me, disciplined me, and shared their lives with me. I didn't need to hear them say it out loud.
Not once did my parents ever tell us that we could never turn to them in time of need nor did they ever tell us that their door was always open to us. They didn't have to. I can tell you that never in my life did I ever feel that I could not turn to them in time of need for support, encouragement, or help. I just knew their door was always open to me. There was never any doubt in my mind, even when I got into trouble with the law.
I trusted my relationship with my parents. Likewise, I trust my relationship with God in much the same way. I know God loves me and I know he is there for me...always.
I know my parents loved me. My parents were not the touchy-feely type. I don't recall ever getting a hug from my mother or father. Maybe when I was really young they did but I don't remember it. My parents were never the type to verbally express their love to us children but they didn't have to. I knew they loved me. I knew it by the way they treated me, taught me, led me, disciplined me, and shared their lives with me. I didn't need to hear them say it out loud.
Not once did my parents ever tell us that we could never turn to them in time of need nor did they ever tell us that their door was always open to us. They didn't have to. I can tell you that never in my life did I ever feel that I could not turn to them in time of need for support, encouragement, or help. I just knew their door was always open to me. There was never any doubt in my mind, even when I got into trouble with the law.
I trusted my relationship with my parents. Likewise, I trust my relationship with God in much the same way. I know God loves me and I know he is there for me...always.
dadof10
Member
For those who don't believe in this "stuff" we call salvation, and who answer No to this question; you are honest. That's is acceptable and makes perfect sense, because the bible does say that not everyone is saved, but for those of you who believe in God, who claim to love God and follow Christ, and say they have accepted him in their life....and say NO, they do not know for sure they are saved, or that they can't know; you have already lumped yourself in with NON BELIEVERS, and I have to wonder why they also want to lump themselves in with believers
Really? So, people who read passages like "ARE BEING saved..." and "work out your own salvation...", and come to the conclusion that salvation is a PROCESS and it CAN be lost, are lumped in with atheists, in your opinion? You have quite a high and holy opinion of yourself and your SUBJECTIVE Bible interpretation. Please give an exegesis on the passages I posted above. You have ignored them in another thread, don't do so here.
All the people who disagree with you, or only people who think salvation is a process? Maybe you should ask others who actually know Scripture.
Because we know where you are coming from.
Now to disagree with OSAS means we AREN'T SAVED? You must be joking.
And Scripture ALSO says we "are being saved" and that the branches can be "cut off". To simply look at one side and ignore the other is short sighted and leads to doctrinal error.
Danus
Member
Along the same lines; Faith in God alone, would be my answer as to how I know I am saved.
I do not trust in myself one bit when it comes to salvation. In fact, I'd say I stopped trusting in myself the moment I was able to trust in Him. What a great day that was, to be set free from my own bondage to my own nature; a nature the bible says is sin.
I posted this question "Do you know for sure you are saved"; and How?" because it's a great question. It's a great question because it immediately locks the one wrestling with it into a corner to answer it.
The answer is either yes or no. It can be pondered in many ways, but it can only be answered in one of two ways, and to not answer is a impose one of the answers.
It is my contention that anyone who can not answer "YES" to the question, is still relying on themselves rather than Christ, or could care less of being saved, but it should not matter to them I think. It should not matter that others answer YES to this question, yet those who answer NO, or I don't know, or I can't know often want to argue with those who answer yes. Why are they not content with their own answer?
I often admire committed atheist. I was once one myself, but I rarely meet a real atheist. Instead I often meet people calling themselves atheist and wanting to argue God.
I never did that when I was an atheist, because God did not exist. If others wanted to believe he did, what's it to me? If I where asked this question "Do you know for sure you are saved?" and I was many times growing up in TX, I said No, and I don't care. Have a good day. That was my answer.
For those seeking salvation, or who believe they might be saved, They are not atheist, and the believe in God, they should have no issue with others who say they are saved, but they seem to. They have doubt I guess, or they simply don't trust what God has said, or they are still trusting in their own fallen nature to not be as fallen as God says we are. We are told to call upon and trust in Jesus Christ, not in ourselves. Ones "self" is fallen and sinful by nature. It is ones self that says there is no God, or I must be "Good", or I have doubts. Trusting in ones self for what one can not do seems silly.
Unlike R. Kelly, I do not believe I can fly. I can't fly, but I trust than an airplane can. I would not run down a runway trying to take off, and I do not get made at birds, or R Kelly, for believing they can fly. I give up the notion of myself in this and just by a ticket on the next plane. I place my trust in something else that can do what I can not, and so it is with my salvation.
Romans 8:16-17
New Living Translation (NLT)
16 For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children. 17 And since we are his children, we are his heirs. In fact, together with Christ we are heirs of God’s glory. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering
1 John 5:10-12
New Living Translation (NLT)
10 All who believe in the Son of God know in their hearts that this testimony is true. Those who don’t believe this are actually calling God a liar because they don’t believe what God has testified about his Son.
11 And this is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have God’s Son does not have life. 13 I have written this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know you have eternal life.
John 10:27-28
New Living Translation (NLT)
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me,
John 5:24
New Living Translation (NLT)
24 “I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
John 6:44
New Living Translation (NLT)
44 For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up.
John 8:47
New Living Translation (NLT)
47 Anyone who belongs to God listens gladly to the words of God. But you don’t listen because you don’t belong to God.”
Romans 10:17
New Living Translation (NLT)
17 So faith comes from hearing, that is, hearing the Good News about Christ.
Romans 8:38-39
New Living Translation (NLT)
38 And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. 39 No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.
2 Corinthians 1:22
New Living Translation (NLT)
22 and he has identified us as his own by placing the Holy Spirit in our hearts as the first installment that guarantees everything he has promised us.
Ephesians 1:13-14
New Living Translation (NLT)
13 And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago. 14 The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him.
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Danus
Member
I looked over my post in here to see if I said anything you are suggesting, and I did not mostly. What I did say is that those who answer this question with anything other than YES, are all in the same boat with their own answer to the question. A NO is the same as I DON'T KNOW. or I CAN'T KNOW....or anything other than YES.
Also, I do not think highly of myself, and I will paint a picture so that you will know what I think of me. I am a depraved sinner. I am not one bit right, and I never was, or will be. That is the beauty of of my salvation. There is no ME in this, there is only Jesus Christ my Lord and savior. So, I hope that will dispel any thought you may have about how highly I see myself.
Adullam
Member
How many are slaved here???
1401 do̼los (a masculine noun of uncertain derivation) Рproperly, someone who belongs to another; a bond-slave, without any ownership rights of their own. Ironically, 1401 /do̼los ("bond-slave") is used with the highest dignity in the NT Рnamely, of believers who willingly live under Christ's authority as His devoted followers.
1401 do̼los (a masculine noun of uncertain derivation) Рproperly, someone who belongs to another; a bond-slave, without any ownership rights of their own. Ironically, 1401 /do̼los ("bond-slave") is used with the highest dignity in the NT Рnamely, of believers who willingly live under Christ's authority as His devoted followers.
dadof10
Member
LOL...Mostly? OK...
You also said we are in the same boat with NON-believers. That is patently absurd.
"For those who don't believe in this "stuff" we call salvation, and who answer No to this question; you are honest. That's is acceptable and makes perfect sense, because the bible does say that not everyone is saved, but for those of you who believe in God, who claim to love God and follow Christ, and say they have accepted him in their life....and say NO, they do not know for sure they are saved, or that they can't know; you have already lumped yourself in with NON BELIEVERS, and I have to wonder why they also want to lump themselves in with believers
:."I'm simply trying to understand your viewpoint. By "in this" do you mean in this discussion? You seem to be saying above that YOU are not the one who is posting your opinion ("in THIS") here, Jesus is, so what you wrote about us being lumped in with non-believers is coming from Christ, it's not your opinion, but Jesus'. Is this what you mean or am I way off base?
dadof10
Member
Danus
Member
LOL...Mostly? OK...
You also said we are in the same boat with NON-believers. That is patently absurd.
"For those who don't believe in this "stuff" we call salvation, and who answer No to this question; you are honest. That's is acceptable and makes perfect sense, because the bible does say that not everyone is saved, but for those of you who believe in God, who claim to love God and follow Christ, and say they have accepted him in their life....and say NO, they do not know for sure they are saved, or that they can't know; you have already lumped yourself in with NON BELIEVERS, and I have to wonder why they also want to lump themselves in with believers
I'm simply trying to understand your viewpoint. By "in this" do you mean in this discussion? You seem to be saying above that YOU are not the one who is posting your opinion ("in THIS") here, Jesus is, so what you wrote about us being lumped in with non-believers is coming from Christ, it's not your opinion, but Jesus'. Is this what you mean or am I way off base?
By "in this" I mean my salvation, but it is to say that I am not saving myself. My salvation comes from Christ, 100%. That help?
I don't know what Christ is telling you. The question was, Do you know for sure you are saved?
I did not see where you said NO, but perhaps you did or feel you don't know. I can't say if your saved, only you can answer the question, and the answer is either YES, or it's (NO / I don't know / I can't know)....those last three are all the same answer to the question.
If that's your answer, then why do you care? or why do you care about my answer to the question? What's it to you? Are you a cop?
dadof10
Member
Me too.
Yes. I'm glad I was misreading you.
OK. I just took exception to being "lumped together" with non-believers simply because I believe Scripture unequivocally teaches that salvation can be lost.
If that's your answer, then why do you care? or why do you care about my answer to the question? What's it to you? Are you a cop?
LOL...No...Just making conversation.
westtexas
Member
Dad, I'm not looking for a long discussion here, just your opinion, or maybe a clarification from the Catholic perspective. Do you believe salvation is really lost? Or is it simply not earned? Or is there not a difference? What would it take to "lose" your salvation?
Probably gonna have to write a book to answer all those questions. Shoot me a PM if it's easier.
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dadof10
Member
Dad, I'm not looking for a long discussion here, just your opinion, or maybe a clarification from the Catholic perspective. Do you believe salvation is really lost? Or is it simply not earned? Or is there not a difference? What would it take to "lose" your salvation?
Westtexas,
I can give you the Cliff's Notes version.
Salvation is not always lost, but it can be because we have free will and salvation is not a one time event, but a lifelong process. God is constantly calling us to repentance. We respond to His Grace and we move closer to salvation, when we refuse, we move further away. What it takes to be saved is obedience to God's will through Grace, how we lose initial justification (usually by baptism) is by our disobedience. I don't know whether you have read much CS Lewis, but he makes the case that with every decision we make we are either allowing God to turn us into a Saint or a Demon. There are a few verses that back up the contention that salvation is a process:
"For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (1Cor. 1:18)
"For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, 16 to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life." (2Cor. 2:15-16)
"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." (Phil. 2:12-13)
"Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life." (Rom. 5:9-10)
Anyway, that's it in a nutshell...Gotta get to work.
Danus
Member
Westtexas,
I can give you the Cliff's Notes version.
Salvation is not always lost, but it can be because we have free will
How does having free will allow one to loose or even gain salvation? What is the nature of our free will?