Do you make ubelievers angry?

[for_his_glory]

I have been called pretty much every nasty name in the bad book for what I have tried to teach others because they do not want to see truth nor can they handle the truth about themselves because they would rather have their ears tickled with the word as something that is socially acceptable to the flesh and those who persecute me are usually those who call themselves a Christian when I share with them in scripture what is actually said that goes against that which they are comfortable in..........go figure. When I am speaking to an unbeliever I try to bring up a casual conversation about Christ if the opportunity presents itself, but when I see that point in their eyes where it's enough then it's time to change the subject. Sometimes unbelievers treat you better than a believer.

 

[Aardverk]

I think that most Christians only anger 'unbelievers' when they preach at them in an unwelcome way and assume a 'holier than thou' superiority.
The most popular message from these people seems to be that the unbeliever has no chance of going to heaven

Romans 2:11 God does not show favoritism. 3:3 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? 4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. (NIV)

I never anger people by preaching at them; I manage to anger them all by myself

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think that most Christians only anger 'unbelievers' when they preach at them in an unwelcome way and assume a 'holier than thou' superiority.

It's all about perception.

Like I said, no matter how politely or compassionately you share the Bible truth about all of us being alike under sin, and God's forgiveness for that sin, it almost always gets received this way. As for the one's who don't receive it this way? They believe and are saved.

The most popular message from these people seems to be that the unbeliever has no chance of going to heaven

...only if you continue in unbelief and do not come to Christ for the forgiveness of sins, but instead continue in the epic debate with God about what is and isn't sin and his justice in judging it. Those are the one's that can not be saved. It's called blasphemy of the Spirit. There is no forgiveness available for calling the Holy Spirit that convicts of sin and separation from God a lying spirit. How can a person reject the forgiveness of God in Christ and expect to be forgiven by God through Christ????

Romans 2:11 God does not show favoritism. 3:3 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? 4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. (NIV)

This has nothing to do with what you were saying, but I'll just say, thank God that despite the rejection of the gospel by the Jews (as a whole) God's plan of redemption is not hindered. He is faithful to fulfill it despite their failure. This in no way means a person can not have faith in the forgiveness of God and still be saved.

 

[Kaliani]

Sometimes you just have to be the bigger person.

Christians have belittled me within an inch of my life, but most times they truly don't know that they sound like this. So I forgive them and let it pass.

I don't even say a word about it. Otherwise THEY would be offended by ME and that would be disastrous indeed.

THEY are the saved ones, the pastor, the church elder. THEY can't possibly be the problem. It must be me, the sinner, the unmarried woman, the rich she-dog. I have no defence.

 

[Aardverk]

Sometimes you just have to be the bigger person.

Christians have belittled me within an inch of my life, but most times they truly don't know that they sound like this. So I forgive them and let it pass.

I don't even say a word about it. Otherwise THEY would be offended by ME and that would be disastrous indeed.

THEY are the saved ones, the pastor, the church elder. THEY can't possibly be the problem. It must be me, the sinner, the unmarried woman, the rich she-dog. I have no defence.

Exactly so. Even when you point it out to them, some still seek to justify their prejudice and completely ignore the loving message of Jesus.

It is by no means all Christians of course. Many of my dearest friends are truly loving Christians trying in humility to follow the example set by Jesus rather than trying to justify themselves and their prejudices.

 

[The Unbeliever]

Sometimes you just have to be the bigger person.

Christians have belittled me within an inch of my life, but most times they truly don't know that they sound like this. So I forgive them and let it pass.

I don't even say a word about it. Otherwise THEY would be offended by ME and that would be disastrous indeed.

THEY are the saved ones, the pastor, the church elder. THEY can't possibly be the problem. It must be me, the sinner, the unmarried woman, the rich she-dog. I have no defence.

They are protected by the truth of the Bible. Since what they say is in the Bible, it cannot be wrong to tell it to you. Not every Christian takes this approach, but there are many who are enthusiastic in their efforts to proclaim God's truth that see nothing wrong with it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Christians have belittled me within an inch of my life, but most times they truly don't know that they sound like this.

May be true, but it's interesting that how we hear someone and interpret what they are saying can be directly affected by what they are saying, especially when what is said is in fact the exact truth about them but something the hearer simply can't bring themselves to accept and which they have no desire or power to change about themselves. Offense in and of itself does not automatically mean the message being heard is wrong or offensive and not allowed to be said. We see this in the news--people who angrily resist the accusation leveled against them and claim how unjust it is but who are found out later to really be guilty.

It must be me, the sinner, the unmarried woman, the rich she-dog. I have no defence.

This is what I meant by it being about a person's perception. Has a church leader really called you out on the grounds of being an unmarried woman, and did they really call you a rich she-dog? If not, this shows how it's possible that a person's perception of what they are hearing can determine what they hear and how they receive it.

Truth does not automatically equate to hate...especially when what is being said really is the truth about a person. We've got this attitude here in the U.S. where speech is automatically offensive and therefore not allowed just because someone doesn't want to hear it even though it may be exactly true and applicable to the person offended by it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Not every Christian takes this approach, but there are many who are enthusiastic in their efforts to proclaim God's truth that see nothing wrong with it.

Why would someone proclaim something that they DID see something wrong with?

Why is the Bible, generally speaking, the only thing that is not allowed to be enthusiastically proclaimed?

 

[Kaliani]

Let's see. How did the rant go?

Something like:

'Some women are sooo busy enriching themselves. It is laughable and no righteous man would go near such. They can't get a husband though they disgustingly chase after men like dogs in heat.'

I don't have even ONE lover but my rep is ruined.

This speech was delivered during a church function in front of the whole church crowd immediately after I declined to be part of some dating program. Everyone laughed when he paused mid-speech to wink at me.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Let's see. How did the rant go?

Something like:

'Some women are sooo busy enriching themselves. It is laughable and no righteous man would go near such. They can't get a husband though they disgustingly chase after men like dogs in heat.'

I don't have even ONE lover but my rep is ruined.

This speech was delivered during a church function in front of the whole church crowd immediately after I declined to be part of some dating program. Everyone laughed when he paused mid-speech to wink at me.

That wasn't right. :gah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Let's see. How did the rant go?

Something like:

'Some women are sooo busy enriching themselves. It is laughable and no righteous man would go near such. They can't get a husband though they disgustingly chase after men like dogs in heat.'

I don't have even ONE lover but my rep is ruined.

This speech was delivered during a church function in front of the whole church crowd immediately after I declined to be part of some dating program. Everyone laughed when he paused mid-speech to wink at me.

Assuming it went down exactly the way you're sharing it here, and there's no other information that we need to know to fully understand the situation, I will say there is not a single Christian in this forum who would endorse this kind of treatment of a visiting unbeliever.

Only you know why you are going to church, but if you are examining the faith in the hope of becoming a Christian there are lots of people here who will help you. Then you can find a Church that knows how to treat people and puts it into practice.

I hope you're not getting the idea that Christians think absolutely all speech about the Bible, and those who speak it, are without fault and entitled to speak it in any and all situations in any and all ways. That is hardly true. But, IMHO, the biggest problem seems to be on the part of the person hearing (speaking in general, of course).

More unbelievers get unreasonably offended by the gospel message than Christians delivering the message in an offensive and inappropriate manner. That's my honest conclusion. I have done a lot of witnessing in the work place and, like I say, I don't see a direct correlation between how politely and compassionately you share the message with whether or not the individual you're speaking to is offended or not. It really has more to do with what the individual himself thinks about the message. One person gets saved (even by a brow beating, angry, judgmental style of speaking), while another person gets offended by the exact same message and style of delivery.

It's all about perception.

 

[Kaliani]

I ended my post a bit abruptly because I got upset but I was going to add that though you couldn't pay me to go back to there, I don't think all Christians are mean.

If I had written off all Christians, I would have missed out on some dear friendships.

I just mentioned that incident because it was relevant to the topic. And since you, Jethro, take my experiences with some scepticism, I can then tell you that I am slightly sceptical of yours too. No offence.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...I don't think all Christians are mean.

And that's the important thing I was addressing.

Even good Christians probably have a learning curve behind them of how to treat unbelievers and atheists kindly and appropriately.

I just mentioned that incident because it was relevant to the topic. And since you, Jethro, take my experiences with some scepticism, I can then tell you that I am slightly sceptical of yours too. No offence.

I'm not skeptical of your experience. I just know after all these years and experiences of life there are two sides to every story. You may be entirely accurate, and there's no reason to think you're not, but hearing all the details of your relationship with that church from both sides might mitigate the apparent harshness of how they treated you.

A big step in maturity for me was realizing that people hardly ever do 'bad' things without some kind of reason, and that the key to controlling your response to how they act is honestly considering, right or wrong, their point of view. It then becomes a matter of understanding, and not so much who's right and who's wrong.

Several years ago an unbeliever I worked with ranted and raved about the hypocrisy of a church she was connected with in some way. She decided they were hypocrites because they would not fund the $10,000.00 fee to send her daughter through their Christian High School program to keep her out of trouble and on the right path. She was not a believing member of the church, and had no desire or intention of becoming one. But somehow they owed her daughter a free expense paid tuition to their school. Knowing what her relationship with God and the Church was helped mitigate the seemingly uncaring way the church treated her.

And it's okay if you're skeptical of anything I've said in this thread. I am used to that from unbelievers and atheists. I've had many of them plainly tell me I was the one who was not saved. Where I'm at now, things like that only bother me if there's some truth to their accusations. So no offense taken here...honestly.

 

[The Unbeliever]

Why would someone proclaim something that they DID see something wrong with?

Why is the Bible, generally speaking, the only thing that is not allowed to be enthusiastically proclaimed?

Many things that are true should not be proclaimed enthusiastically. I know people who truly are stupid. It would be wrong of me to go around enthusiastically proclaiming this. It is easy to do harm with the truth if it is done insensitively, perhaps even easier than it is with a lie, since a lie can be repudiated.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Many things that are true should not be proclaimed enthusiastically. I know people who truly are stupid. It would be wrong of me to go around enthusiastically proclaiming this.

Even if the person's stupidity is a matter of life and death for them? Really?

I used to liken witnessing to trying to talk to a chain smoker about their smoking. The defensive response to the suggestion that smoking is bad is very much like the response of the defensive unbeliever to the gospel. Only until the smoker's smoking is seen for the matter of life and death that it really is--and when they care that it is that--do they humble themselves and not take offense and consider what you're talking about. Ditto for unbelievers and the gospel.

It is easy to do harm with the truth if it is done insensitively...

I think we're all in agreement that actual insensitivity (not perceived insensitivity) is not a way to share the gospel for the average, minimally gifted Christian. But as I say, I've found it matters little how sensitive the message is delivered as to whether or not the hearer gets offended or not...just as that is true for the chain smoker listening to someone talk to them about smoking. The response has more to do with what the message means to them personally, not how it's delivered.

 

[The Unbeliever]

Even if the person's stupidity is a matter of life and death for them? Really?

It would depend. I would not run up to every person I see smoking and demand they stop. On the other hand, I would immediately warn them if they attempted to enter an open elevator shaft should they not be paying attention.

I used to liken witnessing to trying to talk to a chain smoker about their smoking. The defensive response to the suggestion that smoking is bad is very much like the response of the defensive unbeliever to the gospel. Only until the smoker's smoking is seen for the matter of life and death that it really is--and when they care that it is that--do they humble themselves and not take offense and consider what you're talking about. Ditto for unbelievers and the gospel.

I don't believe that to be true. I have parents who are heavy smokers, so I know what you speak of when you mention defensive responses. They know it is bad for them. I have never experienced anything like that with regard to the gospel.

I think we're all in agreement that actual insensitivity (not perceived insensitivity) is not a way to share the gospel for the average, minimally gifted Christian. But as I say, I've found it matters little how sensitive the message is delivered as to whether or not the hearer gets offended or not...just as that is true for the chain smoker listening to someone talk to them about smoking. The response has more to do with what the message means to them personally, not how it's delivered.

I don't think it is that simple. For many, especially those who were raised either Christian or in a Christian environment but who have rebelled against its strictures, it can certainly have the effect of dredging up unwanted guilt. And for others, it certainly can be perceived as persecution, especially if their lifestyle has been subject to significant social stigma. But I believe there must also be people like myself for whom neither of these conditions are met. I would not mind discussing the gospel with anyone interested in talking about it with me.

 

[Gordon]

Thank you for that contribution to fellowship here unbeliever. As the mission statement of the site says we are supposed to encourage each other in our walk. I really think your post does that.

I on the other hand know better than to talk back to my elders more than once.;)

 

[The Unbeliever]

I want to say you are welcome, but I'm not sure what it is you are welcome to.

 

[Gordon]

Well I think it's cool you say hi to new members. We can agree you do that.

 

[The Unbeliever]

Everyone is new at one point or another. It seems only fitting that we make it as pleasant experience as possible.