billybalke
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Doctrine of the Trinity – Is it Fundamental to the Christian Faith
- Thread starter new covenant preacher
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new covenant preacher
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new covenant preacher
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1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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1 John 5:6-7 ...And it is the Spirit that testifies because the Spirit is truth for there are three that testify in heaven, Father, Word, also the Holy Spirit: likewise these three are one.
The spirit of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one Spirit.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Notice it says these three, are one. Not one God, in or and three persons, but one God.
The Father testifies through the Son by the Holy Spirit (John 5:37, 15:26).
Bear witness or testify
John 5:32 There is another that testifies of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, testifies of me.
John 8:18 I am one that testifies of myself, and the Father that sent me testifies of me.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself testifies with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Jesus sends the (Holy Spirit) from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, see 1 John 5:6-7
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Jesus prays that the Father will send another Comforter (Holy Spirit).
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Jesus himself sent the Holy Spirit
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Jesus himself gives the Holy Spirit to his Apostles
John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
The Father Himself sent the Holy Spirit
Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Here, God, the Father sends the Spirit of His Son
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Here we receive the Holy Spirit through Christ alone
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Here the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
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The Holy Spirit is the power of God manifest in us, much like the Son of God is the manifestation of God in the flesh. The Holy Spirit is not a person.
2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest (or down payment) of the Spirit in our hearts.
Eph 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
It is His Spirit of truth that is also our testimony and the down payment or earnest that we are given unto our redemption which is our Salvation.
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
His Spirit of truth also enables us to have a real knowledge of our Redeemer Christ Jesus.
Romans 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
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It is possible to believe in two or three God's, or one God, but not both!
You may not read through this or spend the time to digest it at all
I put about four hours into this study, and well it sure blessed me!
If you do read this I hope you enjoy it as much as I did!
Again, you're being spiritually proud--everyone who believes different from you has preconceived notions who "ignore anything that stands in the way of what they choose to believe." You can't see that it could be you that that applies to.
All that you have put together is your interpretation of various passages and verses. That doesn't mean what you have given is actually what the Bible says.
As I have stated, nothing you have given refutes the Trinity. I do not have the time to address everything right now, so perhaps someone else will be able to.
What does that have to do with the Trinity?
What in your post do you want me to address?
What question do you want answered?
When you figure that out let me know.
If you can, here is what I want you to answer:
Based on what the whole of the scriptures say, could you please explain how many these three, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, are?
Are these three:
- 1
- 2
- 3
- other: Please explain
JLB
There is only one God, so why would plural pronouns be used? But God does use these of himself:
Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (ESV)
What in your post do you want me to address?
What question do you want answered?
When you figure that out let me know.
JLB
ezra
Member
i use this much like a egg we have the shell the egg white and the yoke.. its not a egg if the 3 is not together GOD the father Spoke and said this is my beloved son --JESUS hear him... Jesus said when he left he would send the comforter take any of the 3 out and you have nothing.. i have heard it said we worship 3 GODS which is not correct just my 2 cents .might i add i agree with free post which i hijacked..sorry about that....
billybalke
Member
Pretty good illustration of the truth.
billybalke
Member
jaybird
Member
because the doctrine of the trinity says there are three persons, different from each other, all three are G-D. three persons are not singular, three persons would be "they".
Not_Now.Soon
Member
I don't understand the Trinity. It's not that I agree with it or disagree with it. Only that I don't understand it. In the gospels there are great aspects that point to the Trinity being true.
Of the Holy Spirit, Jesus asked the Apostles who they thought He was. Peter answered that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God. To which Jesus replied that Peter was blessed because this is something that wasn't revealed by flesh and blood, but by was revealed by the Father in Heaven, (Mathew 16:13-20).
From this and other points where it says that God revealed something to a person we've assoicated that with the Holy Spirit revealing it to people. This would make the Holy Spirit and God one.
Of Jesus, there are verses that put Jesus and God in the same light. If you've seen Jesus you've seen the Father. The prophecy for Jesus calling Him Immunal, meaning God with us." Jesus being the word of God, and nothing Jesus says is of His own words, but is what the Father has told Him to say.
These things make a clear point that gives support to the idea of the Trinity. But these are not alone. It's said that Jesus often went into the wilderness to be alone and pray. And there are a few verses where Jesus talks to God in a conversation like style, such as Jesus's prayer before Judas betrayed Him. Jesus prayed that God would take this burden away from Him, but then Jesus also concluded in His prayer that He wanted God's will not His own. And on the cross just before dying Jesus cried out, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
So without understanding the truth, all I can say is that if the Trinity is not true it is close to the truth. Because Jesus said that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus. And the Holy Spirit being from God, or from Jesus is still our connection to them both. Simply said, if we can not in a practical way make distinctions between Jesus, God, or the Holy Spirit; then we can't really on a practical sence come to a different conclusion then the conclusions of the Trinity.
This is where I hold myself. Because I see the merrit, but don't understand it all the way, I have to hold that if the Trinity is true I don't understand it completely, but if it isn't true then it's still so close to the truth we can't differentiate the difference. (Or at least I haven't yet).
Of the Holy Spirit, Jesus asked the Apostles who they thought He was. Peter answered that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God. To which Jesus replied that Peter was blessed because this is something that wasn't revealed by flesh and blood, but by was revealed by the Father in Heaven, (Mathew 16:13-20).
From this and other points where it says that God revealed something to a person we've assoicated that with the Holy Spirit revealing it to people. This would make the Holy Spirit and God one.
Of Jesus, there are verses that put Jesus and God in the same light. If you've seen Jesus you've seen the Father. The prophecy for Jesus calling Him Immunal, meaning God with us." Jesus being the word of God, and nothing Jesus says is of His own words, but is what the Father has told Him to say.
These things make a clear point that gives support to the idea of the Trinity. But these are not alone. It's said that Jesus often went into the wilderness to be alone and pray. And there are a few verses where Jesus talks to God in a conversation like style, such as Jesus's prayer before Judas betrayed Him. Jesus prayed that God would take this burden away from Him, but then Jesus also concluded in His prayer that He wanted God's will not His own. And on the cross just before dying Jesus cried out, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
So without understanding the truth, all I can say is that if the Trinity is not true it is close to the truth. Because Jesus said that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus. And the Holy Spirit being from God, or from Jesus is still our connection to them both. Simply said, if we can not in a practical way make distinctions between Jesus, God, or the Holy Spirit; then we can't really on a practical sence come to a different conclusion then the conclusions of the Trinity.
This is where I hold myself. Because I see the merrit, but don't understand it all the way, I have to hold that if the Trinity is true I don't understand it completely, but if it isn't true then it's still so close to the truth we can't differentiate the difference. (Or at least I haven't yet).
Thanks for sharing.
Whether we fully understand how to describe the Trinity or not, we must be sure that Jesus Christ is the Lord God, the Creator of all things, the eternal only begotten Son of God.
In another words Jesus Christ is Lord.
Hebrews says it this way -
8 But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And: “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10
- This phrase - laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands, is a quote from Zechariah.
The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: Zechariah 12:1
As He goes on the say -
10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Zechariah 12:10
JLB
There are three persons, which is why we refer to each as He. Each are fully and truly God but yet there is only one God. That there is only one God (singular), is why we use the singular when referring to God. To use plural pronouns would indicate more than one God.
Here's the problem. We tend to believe what we understand ie so that they may understand and believe. If we do not understand something, then what we have been given is taken away. ie. the word. Another problem is it doesn't tell us how we fit in. The word of God relates us to the Son in one body. Let's look at our own triune nature. Is our hand equal to our head? What about our spirit? Is our spirit equal to our hand and our head? Are our words not subject to our thoughts and our desires?
So I believe the Word was made flesh and he was subject to the Father who sent him, as a word proceeds from a thought, and he gave him what to say.
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