Does Anyone Else Think All This Conjuring is Silly?

[Tissue]

The Jews misunderstood the prophecy of the coming of Christ, thinking he was going to be a political figure.

Is it not also possible that we have completely misunderstood the prophecies to come?

Is it not possible that Revelation does not actually speak of events to come, but is a political allegory?

Is it not possible that Christian paranoia has infested our ranks, instead of rationality?

Many people have been setting dates and commanding others to be 'on the lookout' for the end times, ever since Jesus first came. Shouldn't there be a point (which I think we probably passed hundreds of years ago) at which we just say, 'Yup, we have no idea what's going on or when it will go on'?

 

[nonbelieverforums]

I appreciate your frustration brother. I can only tell you how I feel.

Regardless of the view or interpretation of scripture as it may relate to what I call endtime events... I think it is important to at least be educated on the signs, events and the understanding of the basic scripture i.e. what is said/written. This way if anything comes to pass that may blow one theory out of the water you have a basic understanding of scripture.

I can see from being on this site now,, why so many churches simply to not want to preach prophecy to their congregation. This topic offends everyone. It would be impossible to preach this to a large group of people in a church without there being some kind of fall out from someone.. I suspect in every group there is a futurist, and a Preterist and now today on this site I have met "Benoni" a Christian Universalist. Great I just thought I had a handle on the Preterist view now this new view.

To me it's all part of being a student of prophecy.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Tissue
Shouldn't there be a point (which I think we probably passed hundreds of years ago) at which we just say, 'Yup, we have no idea what's going on or when it will go on'?

Indeed! It happens all the time. However, for some reason that conclusion is never good enough for me, and I have to keep pressing on. It could be a case of OCD, but I believe it is the leading of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Cornelius]

Its also because people have not understood the time-line that the Bible gives. For the first time in the history of this planet we have NOW arrived at what the Bible calls "after two days" (takes you to the third day ) or in normal language 2000 years after Christ. Also called "the morning of the seventh day" which is the beginning of the 7th millennium after Adam, when God will "finish His work" (Genesis )

So according to the Bible we are now THERE. Plus, all the physical signs are coming on board at the same time. The "lean years" of Joseph are now here too, and this time its world wide and it increase very soon.

The fig tree is budding. Christianity is starting to push out new leaves everywhere OUTSIDE the churches or rather...denominations. We are seeing new knowledge coming to a lot of people.

Mat 24:32 Now from the fig tree learn her parable: when her branch is now become tender, and putteth forth its leaves, ye know that the summer is nigh; We ARE the fig tree and those who have eyes to see can see the BRANCH becoming tender.

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely; and this is his name whereby he shall be called: Jehovah our righteousness.

Jer 33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause a Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute justice and righteousness in the land.
Jer 33:16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely; and this is the name whereby she shall be called: Jehovah our righteousness.

Man-child and Bride. He and She


What can I say, but that the Branch is tender and pushing out new buds Praise God !

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Cornelius
Also called "the morning of the seventh day" which is the beginning of the 7th millennium after Adam, when God will "finish His work" (Genesis )

Indeed. And at the end of the "sixth day"(year), we will finish as well:


Leviticus 25:1-4 The LORD said to Moses on Mount Sinai, "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When you enter the land I am going to give you, the land itself must observe a sabbath to the LORD. For six years sow your fields, and for six years prune your vineyards and gather their crops. But in the seventh year the land is to have a sabbath of rest, a sabbath to the LORD. Do not sow your fields or prune your vineyards.

 

[Cornelius]

Indeed. And at the end of the "sixth day"(year), we will finish as well:


Leviticus 25:1-4 The LORD said to Moses on Mount Sinai, "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When you enter the land I am going to give you, the land itself must observe a sabbath to the LORD. For six years sow your fields, and for six years prune your vineyards and gather their crops. But in the seventh year the land is to have a sabbath of rest, a sabbath to the LORD. Do not sow your fields or prune your vineyards.

Ah, I forgot about that one. Thanks !

I love the story about Jericho also showing it so clearly. Six times around the city (6000 years) and on the seventh day (where we are now) go seven times around : Seven year tribulation.

What happens at the last trumpet in that story ?

Jos 6:20 So the people shouted, and the priests blew the trumpets; and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, that the people shouted with a great shout, and the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.

 

[Nick]

Thought I might post this:

1Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

and

7He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.

 

[Osgiliath]

No one here would presume to set dates Nick. We are simply discussing parallels from the Old Testament.

1 Corinthians 10:11 "These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come."

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Cornelius
I love the story about Jericho also showing it so clearly. Six times around the city (6000 years) and on the seventh day (where we are now) go seven times around : Seven year tribulation.

What happens at the last trumpet in that story ?

Jos 6:20 So the people shouted, and the priests blew the trumpets; and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, that the people shouted with a great shout, and the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.

Yes the parallels are amazing:

Joshua 6:4 Seven priests shall bear seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark. On the seventh day you shall march around the city seven times, and the priests shall blow the trumpets.

Revelation 8:6 Now the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared to blow them.

Joshua 6:5 And when they make a long blast with the ram's horn, when you hear the sound of the trumpet, then all the people shall shout with a great shout, and the wall of the city will fall down flat, and the people shall go up, everyone straight before him."

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

The "wall" of the city falling down flat (if applied to the last days) always makes me think of the "flesh" age coming to a close, and the "wall" between the physical and the spiritual dimension is removed on the seventh day. I'm probably watching way too much Star Trek, but that's how I think of it sometimes.

 

[Cornelius]

The "wall" of the city falling down flat (if applied to the last days) always makes me think of the "flesh" age coming to a close, and the "wall" between the physical and the spiritual dimension is removed on the seventh day. I'm probably watching way too much Star Trek, but that's how I think of it sometimes.

You are correct though. In our time it will indeed happen after the seven days /years of the tribulation. So in parable we can call it the 8th day.The world will be in wrath and we will loose the flesh.

Lev 12:3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

We also see the seven year tribulation here:

Dan 3:19 Then was Dan 3:19 Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego: therefore he spake, and commanded that they should heat the furnace seven times more than it was wont to be heated. full of fury, and the form of his visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego: therefore he spake, and commanded that they should heat the furnace seven times more than it was wont to be heated.

and here:

Gen 41:54 And the seven years of famine began to come, according as Joseph had said: and there was famine in all lands; but in all the land of Egypt there was bread.
Gen 41:55 And when all the land of Egypt was famished, the people cried to Pharaoh for bread: and Pharaoh said unto all the Egyptians, Go unto Joseph; what he saith to you, do.
Bread is also "Word" here and many people will be saved during this time. Joseph being a type for the Man-child ministry.

Of course there are plenty more examples like this.

(Oh dear, I do so love Star Trek too. )

 

[Cornelius]

Here is the wedding feast (Tribulation) hidden too:

Joh 2:1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: (Woman on the moon )
Joh 2:2 and Jesus also was bidden, and his disciples, to the marriage.

Joh 2:4 And Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
Amen, but it is about to come NOW.

Joh 2:6 Now there were six waterpots (number of man )of stone set there after the Jews' manner of purifying, containing two or three firkins apiece.
Joh 2:7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water.(Fill man with the Word) And they filled them up to the brim.
Joh 2:8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the ruler of the feast. And they bare it.
Joh 2:9 And when the ruler of the feast tasted the water now become wine, (Jesus changes the Word into the Wine, which is His life (zoe) It is a miracle that happens to believers who are filled with the pure Word )

This is the manifestation of Christ in the Man-child, although this zoe -life will continue to manifest in more and more believers in the tribulation.

 

[Tissue]

See, this is what I'm talking about. There's just not that much support for the 'three-day theory' or 'six-day theory' or 'seven-day theory' (whichever you're speaking of). We aren't given any inclination that Levitical Law is supposed to be taken as anything else except a law for a particular culture in a particular time. We aren't given any indication that the seven days of Creation are supposed to be taken as anything else except a story about the beginning of the world. We aren't given any indication that Adam was created anywhere around 4000 BC.

What happens when these thoughts lead you to press upon a date, or boundary of dates, (as it did with Jack Van Impe, who considered the Y2K scare to be closely connected to the Second Coming), and that date, or boundary of dates, turns out to be false? It's happened throughout almost two millenia of Christian history.

 

[nonbelieverforums]

You seem frustrated. Don't let all these theories have any effect on your relationship with Christ.

People are going to interpret scripture in many ways ,, the only thing that matters is that your right with Christ and perhaps the ones you care about as well. That is your only responsibility regardless of the view.

 

[Cornelius]

See, this is what I'm talking about. There's just not that much support for the 'three-day theory' or 'six-day theory' or 'seven-day theory' (whichever you're speaking of). We aren't given any inclination that Levitical Law is supposed to be taken as anything else except a law for a particular culture in a particular time. We aren't given any indication that the seven days of Creation are supposed to be taken as anything else except a story about the beginning of the world. We aren't given any indication that Adam was created anywhere around 4000 BC.

What happens when these thoughts lead you to press upon a date, or boundary of dates, (as it did with Jack Van Impe, who considered the Y2K scare to be closely connected to the Second Coming), and that date, or boundary of dates, turns out to be false? It's happened throughout almost two millenia of Christian history.

Of course we have scripture that tells us that the Old Testament is an example. Its a type and shadow:

1Co 10:1 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 and did all eat the same spiritual food;
1Co 10:4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ.
1Co 10:5 Howbeit with most of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples,

1Co 10:11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

 

[Cornelius]

See, this is what I'm talking about. There's just not that much support for the 'three-day theory' or 'six-day theory' or 'seven-day theory' (whichever you're speaking of).

Interestingly , ALL these days , no matter which one you choose, will bring you to the year 2000 +. Some will tell you "in the morning", because it is not going to happen on the day 2000, but it will happen in the "morning" of that day.There is a huge Scriptural support for this.

 

[Tissue]

What I'm saying is, people have been using methods to generate numbers close to the year in which they live for millenia. Every single one of them has thus far been wrong, and they were just as convinced they were right as you are.

The claim that it will happen in the year 2000+ is a pretty silly one. Of course it will (assuming there is a literal Second Coming); we've already reached the year 2000 and it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Sinthesis]

I'm gonna have to remember to bump this thread a year from now.

 

[Vic C.]

See, this is what I'm talking about. There's just not that much support for the 'three-day theory' or 'six-day theory' or 'seven-day theory' (whichever you're speaking of). We aren't given any inclination that Levitical Law is supposed to be taken as anything else except a law for a particular culture in a particular time. We aren't given any indication that the seven days of Creation are supposed to be taken as anything else except a story about the beginning of the world. We aren't given any indication that Adam was created anywhere around 4000 BC....

Thank you! You beat me to it. I was going to mention how much assumptions ans suppositions play a part in "our" beliefs. I do it sometimes myself. In reality, I see only one important set of parallels in Scripture and they involve Messianic Prophecy. Any other parallels and shadows are pointed out to us, for instance, Mat 24:38, the Noah analogy. I'm not suggesting these other parallels aren't there, it's just for me not worth pondering over sometimes. The clear meaning and reading of God's worth is usually sufficient for me.

 

[Vic C.]

I'm gonna have to remember to bump this thread a year from now.

How about twice a year?

 

[Sinthesis]

Thank you! You beat me to it. I was going to mention how much assumptions ans suppositions play a part in "our" beliefs. I do it sometimes myself. In reality, I see only one important set of parallels in Scripture and they involve Messianic Prophecy. Any other parallels and shadows are pointed out to us, for instance, Mat 24:38, the Noah analogy. I'm not suggesting these other parallels aren't there, it's just for me not worth pondering over sometimes. The clear meaning and reading of God's worth is usually sufficient for me.

The problem I see is when one takes an extra-biblical concept and then uses cut-and-paste-out-of-context-word-searches in the guise of parallels, shadows and types to support it. Just because one can use various unrelated words in the bible to support 'latter rain' ideas does not meat those ideas are true. A lot of people who think they have discovered the 'meat of the Word' in 'hidden manna' are actually chewing on cardboard and plastic packaging. Silly? Yeah, but if swallowed, it could kill. ead