Does God Qualify His Choice?

[Davies]

I was afraid to write this question, because people are at different stages of their faith, and there are misunderstandings of God. Often we are given enough information to make a definitive statement even though we might postulate. So, here it goes. Does God qualify His choice to save some and to not save others? I believe the answer is yes, but then does He tell us how He qualifies His choice? I don't want this post to turn into an argument over Arminianism and hyper Calvinism. Though this is an important subject on the nature of God, I would consider it to be a secondary issue. We can be wrong about this subject and God would still save us. But if you have a thought on how God qualifies His choice to save some and not others, I would like to know.

- Davies

 

[reba]

I don't want this post to turn into an argument over Arminianism and hyper Calvinism.

Never could this be an argument! :toofunny

For me the answer is in Romans

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

ETC.

 

[Eventide]

I was afraid to write this question, because people are at different stages of their faith, and there are misunderstandings of God. Often we are given enough information to make a definitive statement even though we might postulate. So, here it goes. Does God qualify His choice to save some and to not save others? I believe the answer is yes, but then does He tell us how He qualifies His choice? I don't want this post to turn into an argument over Arminianism and hyper Calvinism. Though this is an important subject on the nature of God, I would consider it to be a secondary issue. We can be wrong about this subject and God would still save us. But if you have a thought on how God qualifies His choice to save some and not others, I would like to know.

- Davies

Scripture tells us plainly, does it not..?

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth

IMO the previous verses make this extremely obvious.. ie, speaking of those who do not believe the truth..

 

[Davies]

Never could this be an argument! :toofunny

For me the answer is in Romans

Rom 9:11 he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

ETC.

Hi Reba,

I was directed to Romans 9 during the New Years holiday when a relative of mine, who is a pastor, talked with me about choosing God or our inability to choose God. The passage you quoted doesn't tell me how God chooses other than that God's purpose might stand.

My contention is that God is righteous and does not rejoice in the perishing of the wicked, so I don't think He qualifies His choice. You could say God chooses to save those who repent and trust in Him, but then doesn't He give us faith? If He gives us faith, do we have the choice to exercise it or not?

I'll be glad when we will be fully sanctified, like Jesus.

I have to pick up my little girl from school. I'll be back. I have a lot of thoughts on the subject.

- Davies

 

[Hitch]

I was afraid to write this question, because people are at different stages of their faith, and there are misunderstandings of God. Often we are given enough information to make a definitive statement even though we might postulate. So, here it goes. Does God qualify His choice to save some and to not save others? I believe the answer is yes, but then does He tell us how He qualifies His choice? I don't want this post to turn into an argument over Arminianism and hyper Calvinism. Though this is an important subject on the nature of God, I would consider it to be a secondary issue. We can be wrong about this subject and God would still save us. But if you have a thought on how God qualifies His choice to save some and not others, I would like to know.

- Davies

Im not certain we'll get the answer to that one , even in eternity

 

[Hitch]

Hi Reba,

I was directed to Romans 9 during the New Years holiday when a relative of mine, who is a pastor, talked with me about choosing God or our inability to choose God. The passage you quoted doesn't tell me how God chooses other than that God's purpose might stand.

My contention is that God is righteous and does not rejoice in the perishing of the wicked, so I don't think He qualifies His choice. You could say God chooses to save those who repent and trust in Him, but then doesn't He give us faith? If He gives us faith, do we have the choice to exercise it or not?

I'll be glad when we will be fully sanctified, like Jesus.

I have to pick up my little girl from school. I'll be back. I have a lot of thoughts on the subject.

- Davies

Maybe He has a a great big quarter

 

[reba]

Davies, Romans answers for me. What ever God does is Godly. His choices are Godly. To me it is just that simple nothing complex, He is the potter we the clay.... sorta like you, i believe He alone is God and God does not have to qualify His Godly choices to the lowly likes of man.

 

[Davies]

Scripture tells us plainly, does it not..?

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation

This verse tells me we should always give thanks to God for choosing, not really why He chose.

IMO the previous verses make this extremely obvious.. ie, speaking of those who do not believe the truth..

2 Thessalonians 2:9-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

Eventide,

From this passage, I would take "among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.," as an indication those who perish had the ability to receive the love of the truth. Perhaps this is the qualification, a person receiving the love of the truth, for who He chooses or not. A person doesn't take credit for being saved even though he receives it.

In a discussion with my father-in-law, we thought His qualification for choosing was unknown, something reserved for God alone. I think this is what bothers unbelievers the most, because it clearly is His choice and there is nothing we can do to ingratiate ourselves to Him.

Thanks for you thoughts. Still thinking,

- Davies

 

[Davies]

Maybe He has a a great big quarter

What a great contrast. We know God qualifies His choice because He is righteous, not because of chance.

- Davies

 

[Davies]

Im not certain we'll get the answer to that one , even in eternity

As eternity rolls on, I think the not knowing will increase the wonder of God. Perhaps God reserves this knowledge for Himself as His own for a special reason. Perhaps this should humble us, and maybe it should keep us from disputing with any ill feelings towards others.

- Davies

 

[Eventide]

This verse tells me we should always give thanks to God for choosing, not really why He chose.

I don't see how you can come to that conclusion when it's stated right there in plain text.. that God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth..

Why would you accept the first part and not the latter ?

What must I do to be saved ? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved..

Repent and BELIEVE the gospel..

etc etc..

From this passage, I would take "among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.," as an indication those who perish had the ability to receive the love of the truth. Perhaps this is the qualification, a person receiving the love of the truth, for who He chooses or not.

I agree

A person doesn't take credit for being saved even though he receives it.

I agree, God alone places each person into His own body.. Eph 1:13 says the same thing.. that we first trusted in Christ, after hearing the gospel, and after we BELIEVED we were sealed (by God) with the Holy Spirit of promise.

In a discussion with my father-in-law, we thought His qualification for choosing was unknown, something reserved for God alone. I think this is what bothers unbelievers the most, because it clearly is His choice and there is nothing we can do to ingratiate ourselves to Him.

What MUST I DO to be saved ?

Thanks for you thoughts. Still thinking,

- Davies

My pleasure !

 

[Davies]

"I don't see how you can come to that conclusion when it's stated right there in plain text.. that God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.. " - Eventide

Eventide,

I don't personally hold to a calvinistic view. I think God has given each person enough ability to put their faith in Him, even those mentally handicapped. So, a Calvinist might say God chose to save someone through sanctification and belief in the truth, but then He chose not to save others, and they don't go through this sanctification process. Can I argue against this Calvinistic view? I haven't found an effective argument. Romans 9 is a very compelling text for the Calvinistic view. Not only Romans 9, but also John 15:16.

John 15:16
New King James Version (NKJV)
16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

I would be inclined to think 2 Thessalonians 2:13, the latter part, is describing the means or the how, rather than the why. I could be reading it wrong, but I think it's an honest question: Is it talking about the qualification for why God chooses or the means of salvation after He chooses?

If anyone here feels strongly for one view or the other, and doesn't feel comfortable posting, I welcome a private message.

- Davies

 

[Hawkins]

It more or less resembles creation of any kind. Does the creator qualifies himself for creating something but with some residues as trash? That's the question. A creator's intention is to create he's intended product which was drafted in his design concept. If any trash or by-products are inevitable, his responsibility is to put those trash into the trash box.

I believe that what God intended to create are those whose names were written down in the Book of Life which was done before the creation. He never intended to create those whose names are not in the Book of Life.

From another perspective (quite biblical), He planted the seeds for the wheat. He never intended to grow the weeds. Instead, the weeds are considered to be planted by His enemy!

 

[Eventide]

I don't personally hold to a calvinistic view.

I thought that you mentioned that you didn't want this to turn into a Calvinism / Arminianism debate.. ? I simply asked a question about the scripture and then you tell me that you're not a Calvinist ?

I think God has given each person enough ability to put their faith in Him, even those mentally handicapped. So, a Calvinist might say God chose to save someone through sanctification and belief in the truth, but then He chose not to save others, and they don't go through this sanctification process.

Again, the simple question.. What MUST I DO to be saved ?

Can I argue against this Calvinistic view? I haven't found an effective argument.

I'd say that you're not looking very hard..

Romans 9 is a very compelling text for the Calvinistic view. Not only Romans 9, but also John 15:16.

You asked about SALVATION.. these verses do not mention salvation.. and yet you think that they're a compelling text for salvation ?