Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[Hopeful]

Galatians 5:17 and Romans 7:18-20 doesn't accommodate sin in the believer. It explains it.

Paul is very clear that people who accommodate a lifestyle of sin will not inherit the kingdom of God. Meanwhile, those who war against sin, sometimes successfully, sometimes not, will. Their sin coming from the flesh they still possess, not from the core of an Adamic mindset they no longer possess.

I pray that by now the Rom 8:9 and the Gal 5:24 verses have sunk in so you can quit fostering a "live-flesh-Christianity".

 

[Hopeful]

21Yes, I know, everybody thinks their church is the one and only true church of Christ, lol. I'm asking what the specific name of your church is on the sign out in front of the building where you meet. And if you don't meet in a church like that, what name do you call your denomination?

We still call ourselves "The Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)"

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The born again don't have any "flesh" to promote or prompt any sin.

Paul says differently. He says those with the Spirit don't do want they want because of the flesh. Your assertion that the born again don't have any flesh to promote or prompt sin is completely obliterated by Galatians 5:17. Completely.

Sin comes from the fleshly oriented minds of those not walking in the Spirit.

Sin comes from the fleshly oriented mindset of those who are not born again, those who do not have the Spirit - Romans 8:5. While sin comes from the flesh for those who are born again - Galatians 5:17, Romans 7:16-17.

The reborn walk with Spiritually oriented minds.

Yes, the born again have the mindset of the Spirit by virtue of having the Holy Spirit.
But that does not mean they will always walk in the mindset of the Spirit and not the flesh. Galatians 5:17, Romans 7:16-17.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We still call ourselves "The Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)"

And that's wonderful, because that's what born again, Spirit filled people are. Can you send me a link to a website or a Google Ad for your church?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Don't you believe that water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins washes away our sins?
I do. (Acts 2:38, 22:16, 1 John 1:7)

Yes, I believe that. Not the water or the action itself, but the faith that drives the obedience does that all by itself. By faith guilt of past sin is washed away, forgiven by the blood of Christ that we can't see but which we believe and trust in to do it's work on our behalf on the altar in heaven. And the person is delivered from the power and authority of the flesh to hold them in bondage to it's demands; a reality we spend a lifetime learning to walk in.

Maturing as a Christian means realizing more and more the flesh is a toothless lion that can only intimidate us with it's mighty roar but which has no teeth with which to consume us. I'm 36 years into this and I'm still learning this. But I know much, much more about that than I did when I first started out in my new life. The milk knowledge of the gospel is wonderful. I mean, what adult doesn't like a milk shake now and again, lol. But the intent was not that we live on the milk knowledge of the gospel the rest of our lives, but to mature and begin eating the meat of the word, learning how to live righteous lives through the down payment of the righteousness that God has imputed to us by the Holy Spirit. And what adult doesn't like a good steak now and again!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Thank God we are no longer in the "flesh".
It is written..."But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom 8:9)

Completely true.
That does not mean you do not still have the flesh to contend with (Galatians 5:17), but rather that the flesh is no longer in authority over you, making you submit to it's demands as a matter of law, like a husband over a wife who has to submit to him by reason of the law (Romans 7:1-6).

Through the cross our flesh is reckoned as dead and so our marriage to deadbeat husband 'flesh' ends by reason of the death of that spouse, and so we are set free to marry new husband Jesus and submit to his desires and bear his fruit. We spend a lifetime realizing the reality of this truth.

 

[Hopeful]

Paul says differently. He says those with the Spirit don't do want they want because of the flesh. Your assertion that the born again don't have any flesh to promote or prompt sin is completely obliterated by Galatians 5:17. Completely.

They don't do it !
The flesh has been killed, destroyed, (Rom 6:6), and all we have now are our memories of it.

Sin comes from the fleshly oriented mindset of those who are not born again, those who do not have the Spirit - Romans 8:5. While sin comes from the flesh for those who are born again - Galatians 5:17, Romans 7:16-17.
Yes, the born again have the mindset of the Spirit by virtue of having the Holy Spirit.
But that does not mean they will always walk in the mindset of the Spirit and not the flesh. Galatians 5:17, Romans 7:16-17.

I disagree.
How can something that has been destroyed have any power over us?
Gal 5:16 says Gal 5:17 won't happen to those who walk after the Spirit.
Rom 7:16-17 are Paul's lament from the perspective of his past when he still walked in the flesh. (See Rom 7:5...For when we WERE IN THE FLESH...).

 

[Hopeful]

And that's wonderful, because that's what born again, Spirit filled people are. Can you send me a link to a website or a Google Ad for your church?

Sorry, we are not on line, except for right here.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, I believe that. Not the water or the action itself, but the faith that drives the obedience does that all by itself. By faith guilt of past sin is washed away, forgiven by the blood of Christ that we can't see but which we believe and trust in to do it's work on our behalf on the altar in heaven. And the person is delivered from the power and authority of the flesh to hold them in bondage to it's demands; a reality we spend a lifetime learning to walk in.

Then you believe you started off "sinless".
Faith can preserve that state.
Thanks be to God.

Maturing as a Christian means realizing more and more the flesh is a toothless lion that can only intimidate us with it's mighty roar but which has no teeth with which to consume us. I'm 36 years into this and I'm still learning this. But I know much, much more about that than I did when I first started out in my new life. The milk knowledge of the gospel is wonderful. I mean, what adult doesn't like a milk shake now and again, lol. But the intent was not that we live on the milk knowledge of the gospel the rest of our lives, but to mature and begin eating the meat of the word, learning how to live righteous lives through the down payment of the righteousness that God has imputed to us by the Holy Spirit. And what adult doesn't like a good steak now and again!

True.
But fighting against the milk profits nobody.
We start out perfectly sin free, thanks to the application of the Lord's cleansing, atoning, sanctifying blood at out water baptism into His death and burial.
We grow in grace and knowledge from that point, so we may glorify God, and the name of His Son Jesus, more and more every day.
There are no vacations.

 

[Hopeful]

Completely true.
That does not mean you do not still have the flesh to contend with (Galatians 5:17), but rather that the flesh is no longer in authority over you, making you submit to it's demands as a matter of law, like a husband over a wife who has to submit to him by reason of the law (Romans 7:1-6).

Through the cross our flesh is reckoned as dead and so our marriage to deadbeat husband 'flesh' ends by reason of the death of that spouse, and so we are set free to marry new husband Jesus and submit to his desires and bear his fruit. We spend a lifetime realizing the reality of this truth.

We don't need to contend with something that has no power to contend.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

They don't do it !

But Paul says we do!

The flesh has been killed, destroyed, (Rom 6:6), and all we have now are our memories of it.

The flesh is reckoned as dead.
Obviously, our literal flesh has not perished...yet.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We don't need to contend with something that has no power to contend.

Amen, bro!

And the sooner the believer realizes this the sooner and more often he can live for and submit to new husband Jesus!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Sorry, we are not on line, except for right here.

'We'?

You mean there are more of you?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How can something that has been destroyed have any power over us?

Because we give it power.
It deceives us and intimidates us and we cave in.
It happens.
That doesn't mean you're not born again.
It means you're not perfect and complete, yet.
We're all children of God growing up into the image of our Dad and the image and stature of big brother Jesus.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Gal 5:16 says Gal 5:17 won't happen to those who walk after the Spirit.

Right, it won't happen to you if you walk after the Spirit. Because you can't serve the flesh and the Spirit at the same time (Galatians 5:17). They are diametrically opposed to each other. It will happen to you if you do not walk after the Spirit. Stay in the Spirit and you will not serve the desires of the flesh (Galatians 5:16).

These truths do not mean you will never stray from the leading of the Spirit to serve the desires of the flesh. These truths are provided to us so we can have the faith and courage to choose to not serve the desires of the flesh. The voice of the flesh can be very deceiving and enticing even to the born again, Spirit filled child of God, but through a growing knowledge of the power we have through the Spirit and the end of the flesh's authority and power we can walk in faith knowing that we do not have to bend to the demands and enticements of the flesh. That 'husband' is dead, reckoned dead on the cross with Jesus, and so we are no longer bound by power of law to submit to it's desires. We're all growing up into this truth, more and more, maturing to the full measure and stature of Christ - Ephesians 4:13.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Rom 7:16-17 are Paul's lament from the perspective of his past when he still walked in the flesh. (See Rom 7:5...For when we WERE IN THE FLESH...).

Romans 7:14-25 is about the believer trying to serve God through law. It's a futile and failed effort. No matter how much you desire to do that. The answer for that inevitable failure is to serve God through the Holy Spirit, explained by Paul in the next chapter, chapter 8.

This truth is not only for the person who has yet to be born again and only has the 'water' part of the 'water and Spirit' birth in John 3:5. This truth is for every sincere, but misguided and unknowledgeable Spirit filled person who has yet to learn about and walk in the new way of serving God by the Holy Spirit. I suspect many, many well meaning, but misguided, genuinely born again people in the church have yet to learn the fullness of that truth. That's just all a part of growing up into the knowledge of what God has done for us through the cross, but which we have yet to learn about. We're babies, sons of God, growing up into the image and stature of our Father, learning about the inheritance that is ours in Him. God is bringing us to maturity. We don't start out that way. No baby does.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Then you believe you started off "sinless".

Yes, clean as a newborn baby (a non-Calvinist new born baby, lol.)
Made clean by a bath that I never need take again. Needing only to wash my feet, for surely they will be dirtied in my journey to the kingdom of God. But which will always be washed clean again by my Servant-King/Priest Jesus and his continuing intercession for me in heaven.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But fighting against the milk profits nobody.

Whose fightin' it?
I'm grow'd up now. I want steak! That was God's intent.
But like I say, the occasional milk shake is wonderful.
It's good to be reminded of the milk knowledge of the gospel now and again.
And it's good to feed new babies with it.
But you can't live on just that forever! That's not God's plan.
He has every intention of bringing us to maturity and living on the meat knowledge of the word - the word of righteous living.

 

[Hopeful]

'We'?

You mean there are more of you?

Of course.
I know of a church in Ghana that contacted our pastor who then went and visited them,
I know we have been in Portland, Or., San Diego, Cal., Houston, Tx., Atlanta, Georgia, and here in Mesa Az.
I pray they are all still doing well, to the glory of God.

 

[Hopeful]

Because we give it power.
It deceives us and intimidates us and we cave in.
It happens.

It happens to those without God's Spirit.

That doesn't mean you're not born again.

Yes it does, as 1 Joh 3:9-10 clearly states.

It means you're not perfect and complete, yet.

Not in every facet, as I await a better vessel in the future.

We're all children of God growing up into the image of our Dad and the image and stature of big brother Jesus.

Do God's children lie, kill, and steal?
No.
God's seed cannot bring forth the fruit of the evil.
Th devil's children commit the sins.