Double Marriage

[von]

Right, Sputnik, well actually there would be no need for someone to divorce only seperate unless one had intentions to re marry. Anyhow, you have the idea. If you marry someone who is put away then you commit adultery and cause them to also commit adultery. Fornication and adultery are listed as two seperate sins, they are not the same. It is like you said when Jesus spoke of the cause of fornication He was referring to the Jewish marriage.

 

[Klee shay]

My head is trying to twist around all this reasoning of scripture. I've never understood the scriptures pertaining to divorce and would like to think our Lord, forgiving and understanding towards one who has the desire to love another, and share in his plans for marriage even if one has been divorced before.

My reasoning is that when one commits adultery and repents, do they not become a new creation by the forgiveness of Christ? Does that adultery hang around their heads for all time, unforgiven or does Christ forgive and they become a new creation?

Someone who puts their husband or wife away other than for fornication and then repents afterwards - are they not forgiven and become a new creation in Christ's forgiveness?

My question is that in being a new creation in Christ's forgiveness do we:

1) Be forgiven as an adulterer for that offence in that marriage, and;
2) Are free to part-take in a new marriage as a new creation?

Bearing in mind that we are a new creation and we have truly repented; is the Lord not about making good works out of bad? If we decide not to learn from the lessons of adultery in a previous marriage or put away a husband/wife for reasons other than fornication - is that not cutting off the Lord's ability to make new creations out of old?

Would God deny the Gentile the ability to be covered by his grace even though the Gentile was not a Jew? Therefore would God deny the sinner the ability to be covered by his grace, even though the sinner was not a new creation yet?

 

[Klee shay]

Therefore would God deny the sinner the ability to be covered by his grace, even though the sinner was not a new creation yet?

Just to clarify this sentence. I'm talking about a Christian who becomes a new creation when we repent and ask for the Lord's forgiveness. I'm not referring to an unbeliever who denies God. For in denying him they deny his grace and cannot therefore be covered.

 

[Amity]

Klee Shay, but the act of re-marrying is the adultery, according to scripture. So, repenting (turning away from, stop doing) of this act would mean to get out of that adulterous relationship.

Think of it this way. Can a bank robber stand in the middle of a vault he's just broken into, ask the Lord to forgive him, and then continue to remove the money from said vault? That is not repentance. The Lord is not going to give forgivness for something one has not turned away from.

Of course the faithful Christian can be forgiven of any sin he turns away from and asks the Lord to forgive. It does not give the Christian the right to continue in the sin, or partake of it again.

 

[von]

You have to understand. Yes, you are forgiven of adultery but if you marry someone else then you are in adultery again. The Bible says that you are only allotted one husband and one wife. As you read in a previous post, Moses allowed it because of the hardness of the peoples hearts, but Jesus said in the beginning it was not so. He said one husband and one wife. If you remarry then you are taking someone else's spouse.
Fornication had to do with the Jewish marriage, as you also read in the previous post. You are forgiven for sins if you truly repent. Repent means to turn away from. You can not turn away from something that you continue to live in.
Look at John the Baptist. He had his head taken off for thisvery cause and he wasn't even telling it to a Christian but to Herod who was a heathen.
Let's say I know nothing about God. You have a nice shiny red corvette sitting in your driveway. I like it, i want it, and I steal it. After awhile I come to know the Lord and get saved, can i keep your shiny, red corvette or do I have to give it back? You have the title, it belongs to you but I asked the Lord to forgive me so now it's mine? Understand a little better?
I know it's a difficult thing and it is not fun, believe me I know. But when Christ says no adulterers will enter Heaven then that is not a chance I am willing to take.
This is why I really didn't want to get on this subject but I had some ? for someone who believes like I do, but if you all don't mind hearing the subject then I don't mind sharing my views. I just don't want to offend anyone who is in the situation. I only have to answer to God for me.

 

[Amity]

Fornication had to do with the Jewish marriage, as you also read in the previous post.

Do you have scripture for this?

As for the rest of your post, Amen.

 

[Klee shay]

What I find difficult to accept is that our society has changed and while the scriptures are there for Christians to adhere to as much as they are able, our society can start us off on the wrong foot before we come to Christ. The scriptures were written in the Jewish society at the time. While we can do our best to glean Christ's understanding in that societal period; is it fair to apply it to this one in it's entirity without misunderstanding Christ's meaning.

As an example:

I fornicated with 4 men in my life (one later becoming my husband) and that was while I was a Christian. I believed in God but I didn't know him very well. Then I read how other's translate the scriptures pertaining to marriage and divorce and think - but wait a minute - how can a person measure themselves according to a sin they committed in ignorance and then apply it to their new understanding of the scriptures?

Were they a willful adulterer or an ignorant person?

I fornicated with my husband before marriage. I fornicated with others before meeting my husband to be. I wanted to put my husband away when we experienced a difference in our beliefs and he was tempted by fornication outside our marriage even though he didn't carry it through.

Yet the Lord has blessed our marriage because once we knew what we were doing, we repented and we asked for forgiveness and we have become a new creation in Christ's forgiveness. Would our successful marriage as it stands today, be tesitmony to others who are struggling in their marriage, if we decided the scriptures meant repentance for the Jewish people to turn away in their societal arrangements as what we must do ourselves today?

It would not be a testimony to anyone but the unbelievers who see the Christian divorce statistics going up more and more. So do we divorce to reconcile with the scriptures or do we repent within our marriages to reconcile with God's plan for Christian marriages?

My husband was an unbeliever and when I met him I was a silent believer. As I came into contact with more Christians however, my belief strengthened and God became my focus. Now that became a stumbling block in our relationship. How did it get resolved then? Only through Christ. For I prayed and I asked Jesus to intervene in our problems and turn them around. He did and it wasn't easy.

Now my husband is a believer and we are strengthening our relationship with God more and more every day. Who else could have turned it around but God? Now I tell you why was God for two previous fornicators, and two who desired in their hearts at one point to put away each other over the temptation of fornication and a difference in beliefs?

I say it was because we would testify more of his ability to bring Christian marriages together, than to stand by the scriptures and get divorced. We did not comply to what Christ defined as acceptable marriage circumstances; but that did not stop the Lord from rebuilding us to live in his idea of marriage.

We are not perfect. We can never be. But denying the Lord the power to rebuild us to testify of what a successful, happy marriage as a Christain couple can be - denies righteous examples in our society TODAY. We are not a Jewish community which lived by the law once upon a time. We are Gentiles who lived by the grace of Christ.

 

[Klee shay]

I should also acknowledge that I didn't actually put my husband away and he didn't actually commit adultery with the physical act - even though our hearts desired it.

So maybe I would feel differently and tend to agree with you more if I did?

I just see it that if Christ can move two people who defied the scriptures in the past, to a unity which exaults his origianal plan for Christian marriages - then what more can he do for others who have defied the scriptures ignorantly in the past?

A divorce in ignorance is not willful adultery.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

And according to Jesus the woman at the well had 7 husbands because she slept with them all. So that means because I fornicated I too have 7 husbands...does that mean now I leave my current husband and go back to the 1st person I was with?

I am committing adultery on my first 'partner' with my current husband LOL

Seems a bit silly. Christ sees the 'sexual act' as marriage so therefore I'm a bigamous or whatever the word is. Praise be to God that he forgive us in our ignorance eh? ;)

 

[Remember]

This has been a most interesting thread to watch.

There is a great deal within this thread on which to make comment. I will comment to the opening poster's question.

From what I have learned in the Bible, I see no marriage after divorce while the spouse is living. As is spoken by Jesus in Matt 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

God is not the author of divorce. It is not what He wants. The evil desires of man are the cause of divorce. Jesus tells us in this passage that Moses did this because of their hard hearts, I see Him giving no credit to God for this action for it is not his will. As with many things we've read about in the Old Testament, God permitted Isreal to be lost in overwhelming sin on many occasions. They are some of our most expounding examples of what not to do when it comes to the word of God.

All marriage is sacred, as are all vows into God's covenant of marriage, which are wittnessed by God (Malachi 2:14 "Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the Lord hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou has dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant."

Marriage is God's created covenant, and He acknowledges the union of each and every marriage being done, whether they are right or wrong. All will be judged according to the Word.

Yes, there is scripture giving one reason to put away in divorce and even to let a spouse leave and not have to go with them, but the Bible is silent in the New Testament regarding remarriage except in the case of death, and even that has restrictions.

1 Cor 7:39

39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

What law? James 5:12

12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath : but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

I believe "I do" is a "yea".

Physical contact is to be between a husband and wife only and their union is life long by their vows, no matter how people try to chop it up.

1 Cor 7:1-2
7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman .

2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

And it is to remain between them, no others ever, until death they do part. It is sin to even look at someone with lust. Matt 5:27-28

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart .

Single man? Married man? It doesn't matter, it's wrong to do.

There are some "clincher" verses that spell much out specifically on this subject. They are direct statements. As with many things within the Bible, put them all together to get the full picture. If it says "don't do this" in one verse, don't do it. If it says "you are that if you do this" then consider yourself that if you decide to do this. Here are some of the "clincher" verses:

I noticed Matthew 19:9 posted earlier. That is a twin statement to this next verse, though this next verse expounds more fully the meaning of that which is echoed in Matthew 19:9, since this next verse came earlier:

Matt 5:32

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

In other words, if the divorce writer should leave his unsinful wife and she would again marry, she would be guilty of adultery, but he would be guilty of causing her to commit adultery.

Another "clincher" verse set would be this (I can just imagine Jesus looking at the diciples, having to repeat himself on the subject and being very point blank about His additional response):

Mark 10:2-12

2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.

3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?

4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.

5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

(Now, that should be enough right there but they just wouldn't let the subject drop)

10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.

11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Here are other verses that some tend to use as a reason to remarry though these scriptures, themselves, speak nothing of remarriage at all:

1 Cor 7:12-16

12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?


Ok, so now we have:

1. If you put your wife away and marry another, you commit adultery.
2. If you put your husband away and marry another, you commit adultery
3. If you marry a divorced woman, you commit adultery.
4. If you put away a wife that has not fornicated, you cause her to commit adultery and you are at fault.
5. You can put a wife away that fornicated because she has committed adultery.
6. If the unbelieving spouse really wishes to leave the union, let them go
7. A woman can marry again if her husband is dead, and then, only to a Christian.

In 1-6 I have read no permission to remarry by God. Why? Because the spouse is still alive.

From what I have seen thus far, the scriptures of the New Testament are silent regarding remarriage except in death. Does that mean we fill in the blanks?

I mean no offense to anyone. Please study the scriptures for yourself.

Remember, 1 Cor 14:33 God is not the author of confusion.
His preference is all we should do.

(I'm very sorry this ended up so long. It wasn't supposed to do that)

 

[von]

Amity- Read Matthew 1:18-20: It was Jewish custom.

 

[von]

Merry- You are being silly. We are not under the Jewish laws. That is why we have no reason to divorce. So, if you only had sex with your seven partners and you are now saved and repented of that then you have nothing to worry about. However, if you were married before, then yes you would be committing adultery with your current husband. Jesus said Who God hath joined together let NO MAN put asunder. It doesn't say, no man except a man appointed judge.
At what point do we as Christians get to decide which parts of the Bible are for today. And how come only the parts that we don't like do we say are not for us?
If you are right then you don't have anything to worry about but if you are wrong then what? Look, I'm not trying to be disrespectful but if you are an alcoholic before you know Christ, if you are a thief, maybe a prostitute, or whatever the sin, it is all done in ignorance before you know Christ so what makes the sin of adultery any different? you still have to turn away from it just like any other sins.

 

[von]

Remember- Good Post. It is great to find someone who believes the same way. They are few and far between. In reality it is a scarey thing. I hope with all of my heart that we are are wrong because if not then look at the pitiful people who may not make it. I don't want them to not make it. The preachers are lying to them and they are being decieved. Look at the divorce rate within the church. I would rather be wrong and have sacrificed for nothing than for all of those pitiful people to be in trouble.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Merry- You are being silly. We are not under the Jewish laws.

Why are you calling me silly. I was being serious. I never said anything about Jewish laws.

That is why we have no reason to divorce. So, if you only had sex with your seven partners and you are now saved and repented of that then you have nothing to worry about.

Sure I've repented but I was a beleiver when I commited these acts. I was merely responding to Klee shay's post.

However, if you were married before, then yes you would be committing adultery with your current husband.

Jesus saw the woman at the well had 7 husbands because she slept with them. Sex, is the way in which we become one flesh. I believe sex=marriage. Therefore if you have no intention of spending the rest of your life with the person you're sleeping with then that is classed as fornication...when you sleep with someone else, you are marrying them also...that makes you an adulterer as well. Jesus agrees.

Jesus said Who God hath joined together let NO MAN put asunder.

It says nothing about God putting them asunder. And how are they joined? What's the union? Cain knew his wife. Adam knew his wife too...no man joined them together - God did. Therefore no man can put asunder...only God can.

At what point do we as Christians get to decide which parts of the Bible are for today.

Are you still addressing me? I'm bringing a whole different slant on marriage and your saying which parts are for today? I would say that your understanding of marriage is not what the bible says. God describes marriage in the bible as when a man leaves his mother and father and cleaves unto his wife and they become one flesh....no other person is involved other than the couple and God...no judge no celebrant or priest!

And how come only the parts that we don't like do we say are not for us?

Are you still addressing me?

If you are right then you don't have anything to worry about but if you are wrong then what?

wrong about what? Right about what? What are talking about?

Look, I'm not trying to be disrespectful but if you are an alcoholic before you know Christ, if you are a thief, maybe a prostitute, or whatever the sin, it is all done in ignorance before you know Christ so what makes the sin of adultery any different?

What about when you know Christ? What then? FWIW...I believe that God divorced me from those other men I slept with when I repented so I don't have a problem but my point wasn't really about divorce so much as what Jesus saw as 'marriage'.

you still have to turn away from it just like any other sins.

Gee thanks for enlightening me...I've been a Christian for 20 years but I didn't know that I needed to turn away from sin...gee I must be living under a rock :roll: :roll:

 

[von]

Merry- I wrote a reponse to your post but am now deleting it. I hope it is not too late. I didn't check. Look, I am not trying to offend anyone. I think I will just follow this thread and not respond until I come across someone who has been in the situation that I am in. I didn't start this to argue divorce, remarriage, or fornication. I have some questions about my own situation and that was my intentions. It doesn't matter to me who fornicated, who is divorce, or how many husbands or wives someone has. I know what I believe, I know my situation, and what I am concerned about in my own life. Believe me, it is not an easy situation and I don't wish it on anyone else.
When I said I hope you are right, I was not being sarcastic. Truthfully, in my heart I hope that God does allow people who are remarried to continue in that situation, it was just not the chance I wanted to take. If I offended you or made you mad I am sorry.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

What exactly is it that you're worried about?

God has a wonderful way of making a way where there is no way. Just remember that

 

[Amity]

Amity- Read Matthew 1:18-20: It was Jewish custom.

Thank you, von, I will study that further.

Love in Him,

 

[northstar]

Hi Von

My husband and I also believe in the permanency of marriage. We believe no divorce, no remarriage for any reason. Or that if the couple separate they must remain single or be reconciled.

From what I can gather, we are not in the same situation as you, but I just wanted you to know that there are people out there who believe as you do.

God bless you...

 

[lovely]

Von,

I do not believe in remarriage, but I do think that once you are remarried that you should NOT leave that covenant because God has revealed that truth to you. To repent of your sin, and never do it again, means simply that. You are repeating the offence, and commiting more sin if you break covenant of a second marriage before God. To divorce again, is repeating the offence. The consequences of your sin will remain, but you must live with them. You should remain and allow God to restore you, and forgive you, even if you are bound to the situation. You must live with the physcial consequences of sin, but God's mercy will cover your eternal consequences.

It seemed like you wanted an honest opinion, Von. I hope I have not been offensive by being direct. The Lord bless you.

Lovely,

 

[northstar]

Von,

I do not believe in remarriage, but I do think that once you are remarried that you should NOT leave that covenant because God has revealed that truth to you. To repent of your sin, and never do it again, means simply that. You are repeating the offence, and commiting more sin if you break covenant of a second marriage before God. To divorce again, is repeating the offence. The consequences of your sin will remain, but you must live with them. You should remain and allow God to restore you, and forgive you, even if you are bound to the situation. You must live with the physcial consequences of sin, but God's mercy will cover your eternal consequences.

It seemed like you wanted an honest opinion, Von. I hope I have not been offensive by being direct. The Lord bless you.

Lovely,

But if God says that a person is one flesh for life with their original spouse, how can they be free to remarry. If a person is 'remarried' according to the government, it doesn't mean that God recognises their marriage. God says it's adultery. Adultery is having sex with someone other than the person you're married to, so how can a person be guilty of adultery if they're married to a second spouse. Because God says they're committing adultery against the original spouse. And for as long as the second marriage continues, adultery will be committed against the first spouse, and the only way to stop committing adultery against the first spouse is to stop the adulterous relationship.

The Bible says in 1 Corithians 6:9
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

If remarriage is adultery and adulterers will not enter the kingdom of God, I know I'd rather leave the remarriage than miss out on heaven...