Doubts about reported healings and supernatural accounts.

[ynnebulator]

I have been a Christian for 25 + years.
Over this time I have seen a LOT of claims of healings done in Jesus name.
Usually these healings cannot be proven and are of a trivial nature, like legs supposedly growing out etc.
Yet when it come to REAL needs like people having cancer etc, these healings are no where to be seen in my immediate life.
Though I do believe in God,and I do believe that He heals, all I can say that I have ever seen is cheap side show tricks by noisy "evangelists".

I have a friend who is ALWAYS advocating healings on Facebook, and for some reason it really annoys me because usually they are the phoney healings I earlier refered too.
Am I too synical these days, or has my discernment increased? Dillemma !!!

 

[Alabaster]

I have seen deadly paediatric kidney cancer healed by the power of prayer, a congenital heart defect that was killing a newborn healed miraculously after surgery failed, a baby who mysteriously stopped growing due to some sort of undiagnosed metabolic disorder healed because of prayer, a brain tumour disappear from my good friend after prayer and the laying on of hands---not to mention that many people simply rebuke the onset of illness, myself included, and it leaves.

As far as discernment increasing for you, friend, I believe that you have replaced it with doubt, the opposite of faith.

 

[ynnebulator]

Thanks for your eagerness to pass judgement upon my genuine questions and time of difficulty.
This is not a Christian attribute.

 

[jasoncran]

in america there are fakers and some say these guys are
benny hinn et all

benny hinn believes that he has seen jesus physically walking the aisle and also believes in a lot of there whacky ideas.

most of these guys who push these types of healing tend to be fakers.

notice i didnt say all, God does heal but i havent seen a limb replaced or an eye made whole again.

Can God do that, yes but does he.

paul i believe had some physical scars that werent healed.

 

[Hitch]

I have been a Christian for 25 + years.
Over this time I have seen a LOT of claims of healings done in Jesus name.
Usually these healings cannot be proven and are of a trivial nature, like legs supposedly growing out etc.
Yet when it come to REAL needs like people having cancer etc, these healings are no where to be seen in my immediate life.
Though I do believe in God,and I do believe that He heals, all I can say that I have ever seen is cheap side show tricks by noisy "evangelists".

I have a friend who is ALWAYS advocating healings on Facebook, and for some reason it really annoys me because usually they are the phoney healings I earlier refered too.
Am I too synical these days, or has my discernment increased? Dillemma !!!

As a life long Pentecostal and a believer in miracles, Im with you.

Raising of the dead is included in the miracles that 'follow them that believe' perhaps a member or two will tell us of their lastest raising.

 

[Alabaster]

Thanks for your eagerness to pass judgement upon my genuine questions and time of difficulty.
This is not a Christian attribute.

LOL! Your title says it for you, friend.

So does the use of foul words

It doesn't take even sharp perception to see there is great doubt there in place of faith.

 

[Alabaster]

paul i believe had some physical scars that werent healed.

No he didn't.

 

[ynnebulator]

The prolem is Alabaster, I know that spirt well. It says, dont ask questions, dont be different than my expectations, and fall into line, as it is you who has the problem. It's a very cultish spirit. I've been there and done that.

Thanks for the other responces guys. So if there are so many fakers out there, what measures do we use to tell the difference between genuine and fake. Is it our responsibilty to tell others if we think its fake?
I remember seeing a documantary about Jones Town. A comment that one of the guys made about a previous abuse was I just stood by and said nothing. I would hate to have to say that to someone at a later date.

 

[Alabaster]

The prolem is Alabaster, I know that spirt well. It says, dont ask questions, dont be different than my expectations, and fall into line, as it is you who has the problem. It's a very cultish spirit. I've been there and done that.

Of course, that is a lie and it comes from the spirit of the lie.

You can ask as many questions as you like, but don't pretend that it is simply inquisitiveness. Vile language was edited out of your OP. You asked if you are cynical. My answer is yes.

God's name is Jehovah Rapha, the Lord who Heals, and Jesus is called the Great Physician. Yes, my God heals. His healing gift is in each of us when we are born again, residing in our born again spirits, waiting for us to appropriate it.

 

[Hitch]

The prolem is Alabaster, I know that spirt well. It says, dont ask questions, dont be different than my expectations, and fall into line, as it is you who has the problem. It's a very cultish spirit. I've been there and done that.

Thanks for the other responces guys. So if there are so many fakers out there, what measures do we use to tell the difference between genuine and fake. Is it our responsibilty to tell others if we think its fake?
I remember seeing a documantary about Jones Town. A comment that one of the guys made about a previous abuse was I just stood by and said nothing. I would hate to have to say that to someone at a later date.

If they ask it sure is. It looks to me like you've grown into a better understanding . There's and old quote I put up on the mormon thread , I think it fits here just as well, I'll retrieve it;

Discernment is not a matter of simply telling the difference between what is right and wrong; rather, it is the difference between right and almost right.” - Spurgeon

 

[ynnebulator]

Dear Mods, I'm sorry this thread has degraded so quickly.
It has been hijacked by a hot head. Possibly I set him off by questioning his responce.
Is it possible to clean up the thread to be on topic, and I promise I'll be more diplomatic to the judgements in future.
Sorry.

Benny

 

[ynnebulator]

There is an amazing video (unfortunatly 80 minutes) That shows Christains been exploited and the confession of a fake evangelist. Embarresingly I would have to admit I would have been one of the conned.
The Story of Marjoe

 

[reba]

The bad guys have been and always will be around. I learned to be a skeptic at about 9 years of age. A A Allen meeting.

Skeptical of men (man kind) but not of the Power of the Lord. I know personally of a resurrection. If i could write well i would tell the beautiful story. but i cant

God does not fail we do.

We try not and live in the 'down side' of our marriages. We try and look to the good. We should do the same in our walk with the Lord looking at each other as sinners saved by Grace.

 

[Igor]

I have been a Christian for 25 + years.
Over this time I have seen a LOT of claims of healings done in Jesus name.
Usually these healings cannot be proven and are of a trivial nature, like legs supposedly growing out etc.
Yet when it come to REAL needs like people having cancer etc, these healings are no where to be seen in my immediate life.
Though I do believe in God,and I do believe that He heals, all I can say that I have ever seen is cheap side show tricks by noisy "evangelists".

I have a friend who is ALWAYS advocating healings on Facebook, and for some reason it really annoys me because usually they are the phoney healings I earlier refered too.
Am I too synical these days, or has my discernment increased? Dillemma !!!

Yes, to get back on topic, there are a lot of sideshow tricks out there. It is not cynical to recognize them for what they are. As far as exposing them, I guess that depends on what you feel lead to do. As a church leader I removed a guy and his friend that visited our youth group one night and pulled off a faked healing of an unequal leg suddenly being grown longer to match the other one. As the leader, it was my responsibility to expose the trickery to the others in attendance so that they would not be deceived by a liar who only wanted to make himself look all high and mighty.

So does that mean that I don't have faith? Does it mean I doubt God's ability to heal miraculously? I don't know. Someone please tell me.

A few weeks before the removal of the faker, we had a person with an injury who was told by his doctors that he would never run again and would be lucky if he could ever walk again without crutches. I knew he and his family well, so knew this to be true. Out of the blue, during an unrelated Bible study, he confronted me and cited the passage about healing in James: "Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.." (James 5: 14-15, NIV) He said he wanted us to do this and he believed God would heal him.

That was the first time I had ever been confronted with a request like that, and this was in a church where this kind of thing had never been done before. But the scripture in James was right there in front of me, clear as could be. Do I deny the scripture and make excuses? Or do I have faith in God to reward the faith of the injured person like He said He would?

We got some oil, got the leadership (elders) together, and followed God's word. There was no show needed. No screaming and hitting him in the head and knocking him on the floor. Not even any speaking in tongues. We just calmly and reverently followed the instructions in James to the letter.

The injury was healed right then and there. The guy left his crutches at church and ran (not walked or hobbled, but ran) home to tell his parents what had happened. The next day his parents took him to the (secular) doctor, who confirmed that the injury was healed, and that there was no possible medical explanation for why this happened. This was many years ago, and the injury never returned.

God used the incident to strengthen the faith of everyone that was involved, resulting in many people being saved and others being strengthened over the years through this.

So, are you being cynical and lacking faith when you see the fakers for the liars that they are? I don't know. Am I cynical and lacking faith for exposing and removing the fakes from my group just a few short weeks after participating in the real healing, the memory of which still strengthens me to this day? Someone please tell me.

 

[Alabaster]

Am I cynical and lacking faith for exposing and removing the fakes from my group just a few short weeks after participating in the real healing, the memory of which still strengthens me to this day? Someone please tell me.

You are not cynical for doing your job of tending the flock. That is the proper use of discernment and it is called wisdom.

What you experienced in your church with that young man who was healed was pure faith, and it was fed by that young man's faith! It will ignite a firestorm of faith all around you!

God is pleased when we have such faith--He searches our hearts and when He finds it, He is greatly pleased!

 

[theLords]

So, are you being cynical and lacking faith when you see the fakers for the liars that they are? I don't know. Am I cynical and lacking faith for exposing and removing the fakes from my group just a few short weeks after participating in the real healing, the memory of which still strengthens me to this day? Someone please tell me.

If you are sincerely asking:

James 3:1 (NIV)
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

You have given a beautiful testimony of what Godly discernment looks like. As the leader you are held to a higher standard and bear a greater responsibility.

Or is your question rhetorical?

Why was the leg 'healing' a fake one? How did you know? How did those boys react when you exposed them?

 

[PouringRain]

There is no problem in having doubts about reports of healings. There are frauds out there. Even Jesus says that some will say have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons, done wonders, and He will say I knew you not. (Matthew) Clearly, not everyone who performs wonders in Jesus' name is not of God.

Satan is a great deceiver, and he knows the word of God better than most. In generation after generation who seeks after signs and wonders, is it so far fetched to realize that even satan works wonders in order to lead man astray.

But that is not the end of the story. The fact is that God does still heal even today. Like some of those above, I can give many testimonies to this fact from my own family and those I have known. This doesn't mean that God heals everyone. We must remember that all things work together for good, and everything God does is for good. We may not ever know the reason why he chooses not to heal some people. Sometimes it may be their lot in life, and it is through that problem that God wants to show his ultimate power in other ways. I have personally known individuals who fit that bill also. The world is full of them.

 

[ynnebulator]

Igor, the thing the heartens me about the story was when you mentioned a private group who did not put on a show, and yet the healing happened. I have MUCH more belief in your account.
Yep, no hittings, loud noise shows, just the power of God.
Thanks for sharing that. It has helped me heaps.

 

[theLords]

There is no problem in having doubts about reports of healings. There are frauds out there. Even Jesus says that some will say have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons, done wonders, and He will say I knew you not. (Matthew) Clearly, not everyone who performs wonders in Jesus' name is not of God.

Satan is a great deceiver, and he knows the word of God better than most. In generation after generation who seeks after signs and wonders, is it so far fetched to realize that even satan works wonders in order to lead man astray.

But that is not the end of the story. The fact is that God does still heal even today. Like some of those above, I can give many testimonies to this fact from my own family and those I have known. This doesn't mean that God heals everyone. We must remember that all things work together for good, and everything God does is for good. We may not ever know the reason why he chooses not to heal some people. Sometimes it may be their lot in life, and it is through that problem that God wants to show his ultimate power in other ways. I have personally known individuals who fit that bill also. The world is full of them.

PR, as someone who has experienced a faith healing in Jesus' name. What do you think about healing done in the name of other religions?

 

[Igor]

If you are sincerely asking:

James 3:1 (NIV)
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

You have given a beautiful testimony of what Godly discernment looks like. As the leader you are held to a higher standard and bear a greater responsibility.

Or is your question rhetorical?

Why was the leg 'healing' a fake one? How did you know? How did those boys react when you exposed them?

Thanks!

Yes, it was a rhetorical question, but thanks for the correct and scriptural answer.

I suspected the leg healing was going to be fake because of a combination of things. It was just too coincidental that they both knew each other, neither had attended my church before even though they were in their early 20's and had prior oportunities, had chosen this particular time to show up, and one of them just happened to want to be "healed". (I learned later that the news of the real healing had spread rather rapidly. This is probably what attracted them to a place where they thought their show would be appreciated.) So when the one of them that was doing the anointing and praying told us we all had to close our eyes to pray with him, I secretly kept mine open and watched. The one being healed (who had been sitting on the floor with his legs stretched out, one obviously a couple of inches shorter than the other) simply rotated his hips the other way to make both legs equal. Then I knew my suspicions had been correct.

They reacted by telling me that I just didn't have faith to believe God could perform a healing.