Downloading music from the internet

[Adullam]

Now there's a refreshing new viewpoint on this that I haven't heard before! Thanks! It does seem to be a real similar thing doesn't it? I buy a CD or someone gives it to me. I make 10 copies and give them to my friends. The corporations claim I am robbing them because had I not done this, those 10 friends might have bought those CDs from them. Isn't this what the whole controversy boils down too?

So Jesus buys or is given some fish and bread. He multiplies it (makes copies of it) and distributes them to the people around him for free. Certainly the local baker or fishmonger can say the same thing as today's corporations: "Had Jesus NOT made copies of our fish and bread, those people might have bought fish and bread from us. So because Jesus did this, we've been harmed by losing potential profits."

How is this NOT essentially the same thing?

It is unusual to find an open mind on the forums...normally free thinker and religious are mutually exclusive!!!!

 

[Adullam]

Why wouldn't Christians be FOR freedom??? I would think that true Christians would be. It is the followers of Mammon who seek to exploit the people for money and make this a divine right. Where the Spirit is there is liberty. I don't need to feel guilty that some fat cat is not making money while I listen to a tune.

Mammon is fully embraced by modern Christianity...giving the devil his due. I know of churches that do not play modern Christian worship songs (of all things) in order to save the royalty fees that "Christian" (in name) companies will sue them for if they don't.

When is the last time anyone here made sure they sent the devil's due to a "Christian" company for singing a modern worship song in a public place.

Is Christianity just one more business in this temporal world???

♪Let us rejoice in the Lord and make money doing it!!!???♪

Does this sound like the church that Jesus is building to you?

 

[reba]

ToS.... Active promotion of sinful behavior will not be permitted. Moderator

Feeding people and listing to music are not on the same page.

 

[Obadiah]

ToS.... Active promotion of sinful behavior will not be permitted. Moderator

Feeding people and listing to music are not on the same page.

I'm sorry Reba, please forgive me. I honestly didn't realize that this had been established as sinful behavior and apologize for my part in it. I've voluntarily deleted my posts.

 

[Adullam]

Have we established the sinfulness of honouring both God and Mammon?

 

[Sparkey]

I don't hear a compelling argument here. Freedom has always hurt business. Should we invade countries in order to keep jobs in the defense industry? Or should I say...to keep the defense industry in business!!!

In the old days the record companies had the reproducing machines and made hoards of money by charging the public many times the value of their product....through advertising. Now, every body has the ability that was once reserved to the monopolizing record companies. What is wrong with that? What divine right does a monopolizer have over creation???

A right does not have to be "divine" in order for it to be enforced. You have asked, "What right?"

It's called a copyright. Illegally downloading copyrighted material is illegal. This is something that the courts rule over, not me, not you.

 

[Sparkey]

When is the last time anyone here made sure they sent the devil's due to a "Christian" company for singing a modern worship song in a public place.

Singing a song is not against the law. But I suspect that you already know this.

 

[Adullam]

Singing a song is not against the law. But I suspect that you already know this.

But it is against the law...if it is done in a public place without permission. Churches must pay royalty fees for worship material unless it is older and past the copyright date. Then singing "stale" worship songs is ok. you are free to sing them...

Check out the actual laws...

 

[Adullam]

A right does not have to be "divine" in order for it to be enforced. You have asked, "What right?"

It's called a copyright. Illegally downloading copyrighted material is illegal. This is something that the courts rule over, not me, not you.

You said... Illegally downloading copyrighted material is illegal... well this sure sounds illegal especially when it is being done illegally! ;)

But this makes any teenager that doesn't have lots of money unable to fill their ipods with the latest songs. As in..."I couldn't listen to music when I was a kid because I was poor"! But what kid doesn't have hundreds of songs on his ipod???? Should we send our 10 year olds to work so they can satisfy the urge to listen to music? All in the name of profit for the music industry?

What is really poor is the silliness of so called laws that seek to monopolize and control what people can readily listen to. The argument that this is stealing is untrue. If it costs a dollar to pick up a stone...I wouldn't necessarily be willing to pick up that stone that I normally would without thinking about it. Should I be made to feel bad about not concentrating on Mammon? Or am I free to walk through this life listening and watching what is going on without looking over my shoulder for exploiters that want me to pay for what is easily available to all.

I challenge all non-hypocrites here to declare that the internet is a criminal trafficking tool and therefore should be boycotted. Then we can have a constructive conversation with those who realize that we are free to use the internet to good purpose.

 

[Adullam]

To try pointing out the deeper spiritual truth of freedom as opposed to Mammon seems like a waste of time here. Our societies must be more truthful than Jesus.

 

[Sparkey]

But it is against the law...if it is done in a public place without permission. Churches must pay royalty fees for worship material unless it is older and past the copyright date. Then singing "stale" worship songs is ok. you are free to sing them...

Check out the actual laws...

I have "checked out" the actual laws and have studied from a historic perspective under the guidance of a Professor with her Doctorate last quarter. It was one of my most enjoyable classes. You are correct about the "time-limited" copyright laws of the United States and that songs eventually do transfer to public domain. Kindly allow me to put you on point regarding the issue. Take a Google at "cover songs". Here's a link to get you started on intellectual property rights, and below find a quoted excerpt that pertains to our discussion:

Royalties for Cover Songs by BILAL KAISER - MAY 2011

The rates a venue can expect to pay for performance rights can vary: costs depend on type of venue, type of performance, frequency of performances, entrance fees, and other factors. Certain venues are exempt from royalty requirements altogether: churches and other places of worship often qualify for exemption, as can non-profit educational venues (so long as the songs are part of an in-person teaching activity). Anyone considering whether a performance will be exempt should check with the appropriate PRO in advance.

 

[Adullam]

I have "checked out" the actual laws and have studied from a historic perspective under the guidance of a Professor with her Doctorate last quarter. It was one of my most enjoyable classes. You are correct about the "time-limited" copyright laws of the United States and that songs eventually do transfer to public domain. Kindly allow me to put you on point regarding the issue. Take a Google at "cover songs". Here's a link to get you started on intellectual property rights, and below find a quoted excerpt that pertains to our discussion:

Try submitting your worship songlist for copyright consideration. Could you be worshiping illegally ?

After all he who breaks the least law is guilty under the law.

 

[Sparkey]

Try submitting your worship songlist for copyright consideration. Could you be illegally worshipping?

I'll drop the discussion with the smile on my face as I recall that we have agreed that "Illegally downloading copyrighted material is illegal... [and that it] sure sounds illegal especially when it is being done illegally ;) "

Have you seen my "uncopyright notice" posted earlier in thread? I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiments; there is a line between discussing what is right, what is wrong and advocating wrongdoing. But you already know this...

 

[Knotical]

Many churches just buy a blanket license that covers them for most, if not all, worship songs they use. I have been a member of one such church. Basically, as long as we did not record and broadcast the "praise and worship" portion of the service there would be no violation of the license.

 

[Adullam]

I'll drop the discussion with the smile on my face as I recall that we have agreed that "Illegally downloading copyrighted material is illegal... [and that it] sure sounds illegal especially when it is being done illegally ;) "

Have you seen my "uncopyright notice" posted earlier in thread? I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiments; there is a line between discussing what is right, what is wrong and advocating wrongdoing. But you already know this...

Agreed!

 

[Adullam]

Many churches just buy a blanket license that covers them for most, if not all, worship songs they use. I have been a member of one such church. Basically, as long as we did not record and broadcast the "praise and worship" portion of the service there would be no violation of the license.

Exactly! It is just that some of us have difficulty with the incursion of Mammon into our places of worship.

 

[Adullam]

I hope that it is generally understood that it was Mammon that set Alexander the copper smith so strongly at odds with the apostle Paul. After all, the conversion of so many away from idolatry was hurting his livelihood of idol making.

I think this has everything to do with business in general. Business has everything to do with Mammon.

 

[Free]

Why wouldn't Christians be FOR freedom??? I would think that true Christians would be. It is the followers of Mammon who seek to exploit the people for money and make this a divine right. Where the Spirit is there is liberty. I don't need to feel guilty that some fat cat is not making money while I listen to a tune.

Mammon is fully embraced by modern Christianity...giving the devil his due. I know of churches that do not play modern Christian worship songs (of all things) in order to save the royalty fees that "Christian" (in name) companies will sue them for if they don't.

When is the last time anyone here made sure they sent the devil's due to a "Christian" company for singing a modern worship song in a public place.

Is Christianity just one more business in this temporal world???

♪Let us rejoice in the Lord and make money doing it!!!???♪

Does this sound like the church that Jesus is building to you?

That has nothing to do with Mammon or "devil's dues," and certainly not freedom. It has everything to do with paying for something that isn't yours, paying for a good that someone else made. Do you really expect artists to work for free?

 

[reba]

I'm sorry Reba, please forgive me. I honestly didn't realize that this had been established as sinful behavior and apologize for my part in it. I've voluntarily deleted my posts.

Thank you for respecting the obligations of CFnet.

 

[evenifigoalone]

On one hand, I don't want to get in trouble with the law or encourage breaking the law. The Bible says to obey the laws of our land as long as they don't go against God's law.
On the other hand, I think the copyright laws can get a little ridiculous. ("You uploaded a speedpaint video to youtube with our song playing?! You must die!") But the people who make music work hard to do so and it's part of their livelihood. Also, if I like their music, I want to support them and help to keep them in business.

If I make something, and I'm making money off it as part of my livelihood, I wouldn't want someone else to produce and distribute my work en-mass. It's just common sense. I personally wouldn't care if people made copies to give to their friends, though, and restricting that would be rather ridiculous. (It'd be completely ridiculous to restrict copying from the CD to the computer to an iPod. But last time I checked, the laws consider this fair use.)
Now there are all kinds of opinions on this issue, but it seems to me that at the very least the golden rule would apply here.