Emerging Church - Brian McLaren

[Ed the Ned]

I am adding a post I have just put on another thread as a thread on its own as I believe it has far reaching implications to how we read the Bible and how we defend the Christian faith. Please take time to read this before responding.

Brian McLaren books need to be read with discernment and one should be extremely careful in understanding his emerging church ideals. I urge all who have read his books to follow the link attached and do some genuine research into the emerging church. I have a book of his and find that he is not scriptual in his beliefs and teachings. I would like to quote something he wrote and from this you can get an idea of his ideals: This quote comes from a book called a search for what makes sense - finding faith, and is directed at a new Christian or someone wanting to find how to have faith. In a chapter titled "Don't all paths lead to the same God he wrote:

"As a Christian, I am taught to seek the truth, wisdom, and humility.That means that if a Buddhist teaches me, I gratefully honor the truth - because truth is truth, whoever brings it. Not only that, I should gratefully honor the bearer of that truth as well."

and

"The pluralists are right, I think, to have an aversion to the concept of a narrow, exclusive god who enjoys fueling petty religious squabbles"

These comments and beliefs do not sit well with me and should not sit well with any Christian. Please take time to follow this link and pray about this and seek Gods word from the Bible to when reading his books.

http://apprising.org/2008/02/brian-mclaren-spreading-a-generous-heresy-in-the-emerging-church/

 

[seekandlisten]

I'm interested to learn more about this. I know nothing of Brian Mclaren and his Emerging Church so I don't want to make a full evaluation just yet, but I will research him and get back to you. I'm curious as to what your concerns are? The 2 quotes of his you posted I agree with and say they definitely speak the Truth as God put forward in His Word. You may be interested in the question I just set forth in a thread titled Christian Beliefs that both of those quotes could have been added to the quotes I used in making my point there. Well I would be hesitant to the idea of setting up a new church over witnessing where you are, I'm curious to see what he is about. Thanks for posting this.

God bless,

 

[Ed the Ned]

I do not agree with the teachings of Brian McLaren and I consider them heresy. I have read your other posts and I do believe his teachings are similar to your beliefs. Please look at the other side of the argument aswell. I believe if we are to profess our faith we need to take Jesus at his word he told us that No one comes to the father but through him. He warned us about the wide road to distruction and the narrow road to eternity. He continually warned about deception as did Peter, Paul and John. Before you trust man's wisdom, please seek Gods wisdom.

 

[Free]

I do agree that all truth is God's truth, even if it is in another religion, but that doesn't mean that anything a Buddhist teacher a says is truth. I also think one would be hard pressed to find a truth in another religion that is not already in Christianity, although there may be a different way of looking at something. I strongly disagree with the second quote and it contradicts the first one somewhat.

Truth is narrow, by definition. When one argues for inclusiveness, what they are doing is saying that conflicting, contradicting views are all true. In doing so, the very ideas of truth and falsehood become utterly meaningless.

 

[seekandlisten]

I do not agree with the teachings of Brian McLaren and I consider them heresy. I have read your other posts and I do believe his teachings are similar to your beliefs. Please look at the other side of the argument aswell. I believe if we are to profess our faith we need to take Jesus at his word he told us that No one comes to the father but through him. He warned us about the wide road to distruction and the narrow road to eternity. He continually warned about deception as did Peter, Paul and John. Before you trust man's wisdom, please seek Gods wisdom.

I agree with every part of your warning there. This is why I'll research him a bit before I give you my full evaluation. Personally being called a heretic doesn't bother me. Really, what am i a heretic to simply the beliefs of the person posing the statement. I believe that the True Church with Christ as its Head is not a physical thing, it is anywhere there is a willing heart. This Church does not need defending, Jesus said this Church would not fail so what is there to fear. If we believe in Him we are all members of the True Body of Christ. I hesitate when I see new beliefs emerging and someone decides they need to set up a church with new beliefs. Are we really any further ahead then when we started?? If you look through the last 2000 years of history of the church you can see its just a continuous cycle. We on earth cannot contain God or His Word within a religion. We need to start from within. Our fruit will evidence that.

 

[seekandlisten]

All right here is my thoughts on Brian Mclaren and his teachings. I obviously didn't research every possible angle on him but I did check wikipedia, read an interview with him, and read a bit on a christian site that i'm assuming held the same thoughts as you more or less on the matter. I'd have to read his books to see what his ideas entail, but from what I read I am interested in in checking out his books to see what he puts forth. He teaches at a non-denomination church so he's not abandoning christianity he is simply teaching a change in thinking, a changing from within, this goes for oneself as well as the church. The points he puts forth are the same things I beleive so I can't disagree with him as he hasn't spoke anything that isn't Scriptural that I've seen yet. Here's a quote from that site that disageed:

"I doubt this last “fact†is true. They still had ways to see each other by boat, etc. This is exaggeration to make a point. But McLaren and the emerging new heretics have no qualms about using fabrication, exaggeration, disinformation, misrepresentation, vilification, prevarication and even falsification to achieve a complete brainwash in their followers."

This is in regards to a story he put forth in his teaching. The person reading the story took it as merely that, a nice story. There were 2 lines at the end of the story that summed up the whole story into one point which obviously the person writing this comment completely missed. I also question the criticisms here as well as I can see them all relate to christianity in a way as well.

I have to remind people that christianity became a religion when doctrine was set in place with a list of rules of what is and isn't 'christian' and everything else was considered heresy. Was this Jesus' intention? Due to discoveries of ancient text and the accessibility of these finds we have a lot more knowledge as to what went on in history. These so called heresies are the same things people who believed Jesus were martyred for. Well I don't doubt any one here wouldn't die for Jesus, I question whether you would die for christianity.

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.â€

A question in regards to this quote, where do you see the church in these processes?

One thing I will point out, from what I see Mclaren doing isn't to do away with christian principles, it's merely presented as, instead of thinking we know it all maybe we should step back and see where we failed. We are human after all. I find when you start looking into these areas, in regards to not the mainstream christian line of thinking, the people present their teachings in a way that is similar to the thought process that goes into understanding what's in the bible. I suggest a look and in regards to researching and studying beliefs that go against the flow I think this quote is great wisdom for discernment in such matters and how to approach things. “Large skepticism leads to large understanding. Small skepticism leads to small understanding. No skepticism leads to no understanding.†Xi Zhi

I also think this can be applied to christianity. Let me put it this way, I am against the doctrine taught in christianity of the trinity, you can post in my other thread about this matter if you have a comment and leave this thread to the topic you presented. In regards to this its not the rejection that Jesus is equal to God, its the man made doctrine explaining it and what history has shown us the fruits of this doctrine. I see how it blinds christians to the truth and how they understand the bible. Do you see where I'm coming from?? There is no other way to the Father but through Jesus so if one of these 'new ways of thinking' does not teach that well then for sure judge it for yourself based on that. Do realize this though, one does not need religion, christianity, to get to Jesus!

I'm more than happy to discuss any aspect of this but I would caution how quick you judges new ideas presented in christianity.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

Here was my response to Ed in the Books post regarding my experience with McLaren...

I found Brian McLaren to not be as controversial as some might suggest and far from heretical as some religious leaders have noted. It was the first book of his that I read "The Search for What is Real" that helped lead me to Christ.

Folks get a bit bent out of shape on his answers to the heaven or hell question. He will come right out and say that he feels this is the wrong question and won't answer it. It makes a point that we are to concentrate on bringing the Kingdom of God to the here and now and not worry so much about what happens after we die.

I will have to find the quotes but I believe some of the ones you list are taken out of context. He is not saying the Budhists or other religions are right in their beliefs. He is saying that if someone speaks the truth, whether religious or not, It is not logical to ignore it because of their religious convictions. The other quote is regarding redirecting the energies of "petty squabbles" between denominations and different religions into bringing people together in peace. Nothing wrong with that.

I read his books on purpose to see what all of the hubub was about. I didn't find him to be all that controversial. I think folks make a huge deal out of very small things IMHO.

I have read 4 of McLaren's books and trust me when I say this. He is not as controversial as some would lead us to believe. I found him to be a loving leader in the Christian community. I would challenge those that feel he is heretical to read some of his books first in their entirety prior to passing judgement on your feelings regarding his stances.