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Eradicating religion.
- Thread starter Classik
- Start date
A
Aardverk
Guest
What an interesting question. What wholly atheist and/or irreligious countries are there for us to examine? None that I can think of. The closest two that spring to mind are Japan and China. 
Japan - low crime rate, good work ethic, excellent education, great consideration and respect for others, very well organised, high GNP, low poverty, a sense of honor. (Problems of the second world war were overcome very quickly (15 years) with the benefit of much over-seas aid.)
China - low crime rate, good work ethic, excellent education, great consideration and respect for others, very well organised, high GNP, low poverty, a sense of honor. (Problems caused by multiple invasions, the second world war and the revolution were overcome more slowly -50 years - without any outside assistance, just criticism.)
These two examples seem to show that you do not need religion' to create a good society. If we look at crime statistics around the world, the highest crime rates appear to be in the most religious countries with the exception of Islamic countries which are all below average on crime and all above average on caring for neighbors.
Ah, I nearly forgot Vietnam. Highly irreligious! I haven't been there but I'm told it is now a lovely, prosperous, friendly community despite the devastating problems they suffered only a few years ago. Apparently there is a low domestic crime rate but quite a high rate of pick-pockets targeting American tourists. I can't imagine why.
Japan - low crime rate, good work ethic, excellent education, great consideration and respect for others, very well organised, high GNP, low poverty, a sense of honor. (Problems of the second world war were overcome very quickly (15 years) with the benefit of much over-seas aid.)
China - low crime rate, good work ethic, excellent education, great consideration and respect for others, very well organised, high GNP, low poverty, a sense of honor. (Problems caused by multiple invasions, the second world war and the revolution were overcome more slowly -50 years - without any outside assistance, just criticism.)
These two examples seem to show that you do not need religion' to create a good society. If we look at crime statistics around the world, the highest crime rates appear to be in the most religious countries with the exception of Islamic countries which are all below average on crime and all above average on caring for neighbors.
Ah, I nearly forgot Vietnam. Highly irreligious! I haven't been there but I'm told it is now a lovely, prosperous, friendly community despite the devastating problems they suffered only a few years ago. Apparently there is a low domestic crime rate but quite a high rate of pick-pockets targeting American tourists. I can't imagine why.
If there was no religion......most people would see the world divided between the Strong and the Weak. The vast majority of people would need to herd together in groups...to protect themselves from the Strong. There would be a push for a strong, centralized government that controlled the Rich and Powerful....even punished them with confiscatory taxes and burdensome regulations.
The powerful government would seem to grow into a Leviathan of "empathy"...as it took over all the "needs" of its people....healthcare....food....housing....etc..........[but actually the government would be filled with a beaucratic hierarchy of people hungry fot their own power over others]. Then one day the population would wake up to the fact that they had empowered a godless, authoritarian system of manipulation and brutality over the general public.
Classik
Member
As this is interesting
I wonder what 'morality' would look like in such a world that knows no religion and Christian principles
Claudya
Member
I can see how religions or cults will appear and disappear (as they have always done during history).
But human spirituality will not cease easily. I don't see us becoming immortal any time soon, and thus we will have to keep asking those old question about what our purpose and our origin is, and what is going to happen to us when/ after we die.
We will keep experiencing things that are so beautifull or so awful that they seem to be more than we can bear, and that appear to be bigger than us and bigger than this world.
And we will keep needing purpose beyond ourselves - we need to feel we belong to something greater than ourselves. We need to dedicate ourselves to something that will outlast us and thus make us immortal if we managed to become part of it. Our mind cannot imagine non-existance, it will always aim for some sort of eternity.
So for psychological reasons religion and spirituality can't be fully eradicated.
Needless to say that a religion that signifies a REAL absolut ruth will not fade with the changes of time. It will adapt and re-emerge from any trial and still hold the same message.
But human spirituality will not cease easily. I don't see us becoming immortal any time soon, and thus we will have to keep asking those old question about what our purpose and our origin is, and what is going to happen to us when/ after we die.
We will keep experiencing things that are so beautifull or so awful that they seem to be more than we can bear, and that appear to be bigger than us and bigger than this world.
And we will keep needing purpose beyond ourselves - we need to feel we belong to something greater than ourselves. We need to dedicate ourselves to something that will outlast us and thus make us immortal if we managed to become part of it. Our mind cannot imagine non-existance, it will always aim for some sort of eternity.
So for psychological reasons religion and spirituality can't be fully eradicated.
Needless to say that a religion that signifies a REAL absolut ruth will not fade with the changes of time. It will adapt and re-emerge from any trial and still hold the same message.
Infinity
Member
Um, the strong picking and using the weak is very very prevalent today when we still have religion.
K
King James
Guest
I agree. Darwin's racist religion led to mass murders as racist humans justify killing less evolved humans labeling them closer to animals.
Claudya
Member
Wow, you just summed up almost all kinds of cliché prejudice against the theory of evolution that I can think of. And in one sentence. Awesome!
So I really hope you are being ironical.
He may have been refering to the academically popular concept of Social Darwinism...which progressives (like Margaret Sanger...founder of Planned Parenthood) in Europe and America espoused until it became "untrendy" after Adolph showed us what it looked like up close.
Infinity
Member
Please tell me this is a joke, or are you just having a bad day and need to post something silly.
Mike S
Member
Anyone who believes Christianity has effected the world negatively - on balance - just isn't aware of history or the realities of human nature.
history: the most lethal and viscious attacks on humanity have come from regimes that were officially anti-religious, and more specifically anti-Christian. The 20th century alone saw hundreds of millions of people brutalized and slaughtered by anti-religious Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, Nazi German, etc. There is nothing in Christian history to compare with this evil.
human nature: mankind is imperfect, sinful by nature, and hard-wired for religious belief. Any misguided effort to "eradicate religion" results in some other belief system that has all the characteristics of a relgion but without the love and humility and service and sacrifice advocated by Christianity.
Claudya
Member
Alright eugenics was popular among some intellectuals during the late 19th and early 20th century.
But Social Darwinism is not the same as the theory of evolution. The theory only describes and explains how species develop in nature, Darwin never intended to make a moral law or reprudictive legislation for humans out of his theory. As far as I know when Darwin himself heard about those ideas he rejected them because he found them impossible to implement and morally inacceptable.
People really shouldn't mix up evolution and Social Darwinism.
K
King James
Guest
Excerpts from the Darwin Bible:
An Excerpt on Race:
At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla (p. 521).
An excerpt on woman:
“[t]he chief distinction in the intellectual powers of the two sexes is shown by man’s attaining to a higher eminence, in whatever he takes up, than can woman—whether requiring deep thought, reason, or imagination, or merely the use of the senses and hands.... [T]he average of mental power in man must be above that of woman.... [M]an has ultimately become superior to woman” (pp. 873-874).]
An Excerpt on Race:
At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla (p. 521).
An excerpt on woman:
“[t]he chief distinction in the intellectual powers of the two sexes is shown by man’s attaining to a higher eminence, in whatever he takes up, than can woman—whether requiring deep thought, reason, or imagination, or merely the use of the senses and hands.... [T]he average of mental power in man must be above that of woman.... [M]an has ultimately become superior to woman” (pp. 873-874).]
I've read these passages before...but it still amazes me that Darwin is held up as some sacred icon of the god-free Left.....while George Washington's farm hands (slaves) convulses people with horror at the entire founding of America..
Milk-Drops
Member
It amazes me that you seem to think that eugenics is popular in academia and that Darwin is some kind of icon to "left" political ideologies. Do you just make stuff up and claim people follow it as a hobby?
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but this is literally what is happening right now. without religion the world would be just as brutal but the targets of violence and kindness would shift around somewhat
edit: and if you meant to say that there is not enough religion i'd like to see everyones face when america is a theocracy and just as godless as before, except more brutal against minorities.
K
King James
Guest
Remember how the term "less than human" was being thrown around about the middle easterns after 9/11? People were ok with it at the time to get revenge on them.
A
Aardverk
Guest
I truly do not want to derail this thread by responding in detail to this unsupported claim. All I would say, to anyone who does not know the truth, is - check the figures yourself from a reliable source.
If anyone really wants to start yet another 'evil empire' thread, we can discuss anti communist (etc) propaganda there.
Sorry Classik - back to your thread.
Mike S
Member
I can understand why you wouldn't want to embarass yourself in a public forum. But, if you want an education feel free to PM me.
A
Aardverk
Guest
There has already been much misinformation and propaganda on this subject within this forum. If you want to debate it - start a new thread. Don't derail this one.