Essential vs Nonessential

[netchaplain]

Jesus told Martha that only one thing was truly necessary (Lk 10:42) /QUOTE]
Christ's mention of "one needful thing" means one thing lacking, not that it was the only needful thing. It means that it's always more needed to listen to Jesus than to just seek to serve Him, though the more we listen to Him (Scripture) and understand Him, the more we can serve Him, but seeking His mind first in everything is obviously more needful than all things, as we all would agree.

 

[netchaplain]

It's always difficult to explain that faith in Christ is the only essential to salvation, or one might think that works are also essential. Works can be the evidence, not the production--of salvation!

Faith is essential for rebirth, and works are essential for growth; and works will always follow faith, because God "works" it in us to "desire and do" so (Phil 2:13). This means those who do not eventually manifest works are not being "worked in" by God, which means unsaved. Works do not produce salvation but can show salvation (I say can show because one can appear to be in works but eventually it will show if they're not, e.g. "A man may say" he is saved but the works will show if God is "working" in him (Jam 2:18).

 

[JLB]

Once one is "cleansed" it is permanent, but this may not be minded (forgotten) as often as it should, due to lack of growth.

Again, please post the scripture for this permanent "cleansing", since the scriptures seem to indicate otherwise.

• Therefore if anyone cleanses himself

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 2 Timothy 2:20-22


again


Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1



We were cleansed from our old sins when we obeyed the Gospel and repented.
We became a new creation in Christ.

Now begins our new life in Christ.

What we do with the this new nature, empowered by the Spirit, to reign in dominion over the sinful desire of our flesh is up to us.

This is illustrated, by the rain falling upon the earth, and the earth bring forth either useful things or thorns and briers.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
Hebrews 6:4-8


the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it:

• bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God
• but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

We have been given all things that pertain to eternal life and godliness.
What we do with these riches is illustrated throughout Matthew 25.





JLB

 

[JLB]

God teaches us to learn to walk in them as we mature, which all believers will eventually learn to do, for in every believer "God works in you both to desire and to do of His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13).

Here is what Phillipians 2:13 says -

• for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

No where in this verse does it imply that God will ensure that every believer will eventually learn to to both will and do His ggod pleasure.

It says God works in us and He is a loving patient Father who will work in us, but the choice is ours to resist Him or to comply.

There is no guarantee that every believer will somehow eventually learn to be led by the Spirit, or cleanse themselves or do His will or add to their faith virtue and to virtue knowledge...other wise Paul would not have given these believers these instructions, and warnings.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21

• I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

• I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

These scripture show us that it is our active participation with the Spirit of God to accomplish and do His good pleasure which is walking and living our lives from the power of His Life and Spirit within, rather than the sinful desires of our flesh.


It's not just Him doing everything, but us working with Him, by actively engaging our will and effort and diligent, faithful participation to practice His righteous lifestyle, being manifested in our thoughts, words and deeds.


Make no mistake, He will judge us according to our deeds.


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath.Romans 2:6-8

JLB

 

[JLB]

True faith results in hearing Him, our Lord, and thus doing what He says, but it is the faith and not the doing that is essential.

Faith without doing what He says is dead.



JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Therefore if anyone cleanses himself.
2Tim 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

"Cleanse himself from the latter," means for Timothy to keep himself clear from "dishonor," which is the latter mentioned; which is from men like "Hymenaeus and Philetus" (v 17), the unsaved.

Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1

"Cleanse ourselves" is in the same sense as above, e.g. to keep oneself from the appearance of sin and fellowship with sinners, for only the efficacy of Christ's Blood can cleanse from sin! Right!

We were cleansed from our old sins when we obeyed the Gospel and repented.

Again, obedience cannot produce salvation but instead show it. "Not by works" (Eph 2:9). And even a show of outward works is not always confirmation of true faith, for one can appear outwardly obedient but not have faith.

Our conversation is slowly parting from the OP subject, which concerns the meanings of Essential and Nonessential.

 

[JLB]

Cleanse himself from the latter," means for Timothy to keep himself clear from "dishonor," which is the latter mentioned; which is from men like "Hymenaeus and Philetus" (v 17), the unsaved.

Cleanse himself from the latter is for all of God's people who are called by His name to depart from iniquity.

Why would you think that the phrase
"If anyone" is a reference to just Timothy?

If anyone refers to us all, and is the responsibility of each person to cleanse themselves from being a vessel of dishonor.

Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.
2 Timothy 2:21


Furthermore Hymenaeus and Philetus, are those strayed from the truth, because the taught heretical doctrine, teaching the Lord's people that the resurrection is past.


JLB

 

[netchaplain]

It says God works in us and He is a loving patient Father who will work in us, but the choice is ours to resist Him or to comply.

But doesn't His working in us to desire mean we will not resist. Hence if there is resistance it means He hasn't worked this in us.

There is no guarantee that every believer will somehow eventually learn to be led by the Spirit,

I see no reason why it is not guaranteed, considering the wording of Phil 2:13.

 

[JLB]

But doesn't His working in us to desire mean we will not resist. Hence if there is resistance it means He hasn't worked this in us.

Again Philippians 2:13 shows that God works in us, but is it us who must submit and work with Him, by co-operating with His Spirit to put to death the deeds of the flesh, thus working out our own salvation.

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
14 Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain. Philippians 2:13-16


Please examine the context and language of the scriptures.

• as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

• Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation,

• holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.

Philippians 2, nor any other passage in the Bible, teaches that we are guaranteed to grow and mature apart from us giving heed to hearken to God's voice and diligently apply the truths of the Scriptures to our life to do them and not just hear them.

God's grace is for us to have have the divine ability to accomplish this very thing.


Here is what God's grace teaches us:

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you. Titus 2:11-15

• the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age

JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Philippians 2, nor any other passage in the Bible, teaches that we are guaranteed to grow and mature apart from us giving heed to hearken to God's voice and diligently apply the truths of the Scriptures to our life to do them and not just hear them.

We're just going to have different understandings here my Friend in Christ! I believe if one claims to possess faith in Christ and doesn't have or eventually losses the desire to please God, he never had Christ.

 

[JLB]

We're just going to have different understandings here my Friend in Christ! I believe if one claims to possess faith in Christ and doesn't have or eventually losses the desire to please God, he never had Christ.

Yes sir, we do have different understandings here.

Can we at least agree that it is Christ who works in us, but we ourselves must take up our cross daily, to crucify the flesh, and to diligently:

• add to your faith virtue
• to virtue knowledge
  
• to knowledge self-control
  
• to self-control perseverance
  
• to perseverance godliness
  
• to godliness brotherly kindness
  
• and to brotherly kindness love

add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 2 Peter 1:5-7

To me this is us, by the Spirit, by His divine power and grace, which He has provided us through Christ, working out our own salvation with fear and trembling.


That is the way I understand the scriptures, that I cited, both here and in the previous post's.



JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Yes sir, we do have different understandings here.
Can we at least agree that it is Christ who works in us, but we ourselves, etc.

The works Scripture speaks of will follow, otherwise Christ is not in us! We must also differentiate that it's not the works that saves us but can show we're saved, and this is how God glorified (Mat 5:16). It must be shown that He only is credited for this, hence His "working" this in us!

To me this is us, by the Spirit, by His divine power and grace, which He has provided us through Christ, working out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

The sense of "working out our own salvation" (Phil 2:12) is not that anyone can work out redemption other than Christ, but to work out of or from your salvation, i.e. "Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear" NLT.

 

[Seabass]

Good points, but in my understanding only faith in the Lord Jesus is essential for salvation and everything else is evidence of whether or not one may truly have faith, i.e. one who is truly saved will "both desire and do His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13), which includes all these things and can be evidence that God will ensure this to be so in all who are truly born again.

There will never be any consensus among people as to what is or is not essential.
There would be no consensus as to what faith means, what does having faith mean.
Those that think faith only saves cannot determine for everyone else what is or is not essential.

 

[Seabass]

The works Scripture speaks of will follow, otherwise Christ is not in us! We must also differentiate that it's not the works that saves us but can show we're saved, and this is how God glorified (Mat 5:16). It must be shown that He only is credited for this, hence His "working" this in us!

The sense of "working out our own salvation" (Phil 2:12) is not that anyone can work out redemption other than Christ, but to work out of or from your salvation, i.e. "Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear" NLT.

The NLT is NOT an accurate translation, it's not a word for word but a "dynamic" translation where the authors added their theological bias. The verb "work" being in the present tense in Phil 2:12 shows the Christians work is never finished, it is life long and failure to do that work will leave the Christian short of salvation. " ...as ye have always obeyed....work out your own salvation .." The Christian cannot quit the work of obeying God and expect to be saved. The NLT is wrong to imply the Christian works just to prove he is saved when the bible says those works are ESSENTIAL to the Christians salvation. Obedient works therefore would be an ED for to become saved and remain save making salvation impossible without them.

 

[netchaplain]

There will never be any consensus among people as to what is or is not essential. There would be no consensus as to what faith means, what does having faith mean. Those that think faith only saves cannot determine for everyone else what is or is not essential.

Their will be different understandings between Christians concerning growth truths because we are all at varying maturity, but not so concerning the essentials, which I believe are plain (to avoid confusion) in Scripture concerning what faith is and its function.

 

[Gregg T]

Again Philippians 2:13 shows that God works in us, but is it us who must submit and work with Him, by co-operating with His Spirit to put to death the deeds of the flesh, thus working out our own salvation

Which has nothing to do with the fully accomplished work of God in and through Jesus Christ - toward our redemption, atonement, eternal salvation,

Our "working out" (Philipians 2:12) does not equate to our 'working for' or our 'working towards' because we are not the author of our salvation in Christ; nor do we sustain our state of being in Christ, as co-saviors with Him working to keep ourselves saved; neither are we the One who finishes our eternal salvation.

 

[Seabass]

Their will be different understandings between Christians concerning growth truths because we are all at varying maturity, but not so concerning the essentials, which I believe are plain (to avoid confusion) in Scripture concerning what faith is and its function.

Since the bible is God's word and is "truth" therefore it does not contradict itself. Those differences you speak of only go to prove that all do not have the truth. It is not in man to direct his own steps (Jer 10:23) by determining parts of the bible are "non-essential" for the sole purpose of trying to find a way to accommodate all the contradictions among all the various religious groups.

 

[netchaplain]

It is not in man to direct his own steps (Jer 10:23) by determining parts of the bible are "non-essential"

I do not think you understand what I mean, that only faith is the essential to salvation, for "through faith" is what we are "saved by" (Eph 2:8, 9).

 

[Seabass]

I do not think you understand what I mean, that only faith is the essential to salvation, for "through faith" is what we are "saved by" (Eph 2:8, 9).

But you will not find any consensus on what faith means.

Faith is an obedient work, therefore one works out his salvation "through faith".

 

[netchaplain]

But you will not find any consensus on what faith means.

I think all understand that faith in Christ means believing in Him by accepting as truth that He is who He says He is and can do what He says He does.

Faith is an obedient work, therefore one works out his salvation "through faith".

There's another difference between our understanding, I believe faith is a gift and that all who receive it will show it.