[_ Old Earth _] Evolution is incompatible with the Bible

[Wertbag]

Also,there are burning Bushes in Israel that ignite by themselves
when the sun is too hot on them,in case you desired to know.


Neato, I used to do the same things to ants with my magnifying glass...but actually that sounds like a pretty ridiculous claim...I'd appreciate a source on that (besides the obvious one with Moses).

In regards to the burning bush I've seen a documentry (think it was BBC but ages ago now so can't be sure) where they did show this particular type of bush. The plant itself excretes an oil like substance which coats its leaves, there were a couple of guesses as to why, most likely it either stops insects from landing on it or it works as a form of protection against wind blown sand. Like most oils it has an ignition temperature which in the desert it was possible to get very close to, all it took was a extra hot day or a bit of extra friction and the oil burst into flame.
Due to the plant being a green wet type of leaf it was possible for the oil to burn off the outside leaving the plant pretty much unhurt and unburnt.
The conclusion from the documentry was that something considered a miracle by ancient people did have a logical reason.

 

[ThinkerMan]

Thanks Wertbag....cool story.

 

[Guest]

Also,there are burning Bushes in Israel that ignite by themselves
when the sun is too hot on them,in case you desired to know.


Neato, I used to do the same things to ants with my magnifying glass...but actually that sounds like a pretty ridiculous claim...I'd appreciate a source on that (besides the obvious one with Moses).

In regards to the burning bush I've seen a documentry (think it was BBC but ages ago now so can't be sure) where they did show this particular type of bush. The plant itself excretes an oil like substance which coats its leaves, there were a couple of guesses as to why, most likely it either stops insects from landing on it or it works as a form of protection against wind blown sand. Like most oils it has an ignition temperature which in the desert it was possible to get very close to, all it took was a extra hot day or a bit of extra friction and the oil burst into flame.
Due to the plant being a green wet type of leaf it was possible for the oil to burn off the outside leaving the plant pretty much unhurt and unburnt.
The conclusion from the documentry was that something considered a miracle by ancient people did have a logical reason.

8-) wertbag,to the christian this is good information because God doesn't
conflict with the nature of things. God is capable of miracles and he does
more miracles than you could amagine,but he does not make it impossible
to believe him. He doesn't want robots,and of course you'd believe him if you saw evidence,but would you want to,and would you feel love for him?
I doubt you could or that you would if he just allowed you to know he was
alive right out of the blue like that,yet you do have plenty of evidence that
show you there is a God and he matches the one of the holy bible.
But,God has allowed me to know he exists in others ways too.
I just want all of you who don't accept God or his word to remember what
I told you when you see it all happen as I said it would.
The whole world will soon believe in a god. The only problem with that will
be that the world will say that there are many ways to God,yet there is just one way,and he is Jesus Christ,Lord of all,amen.
If you just remember what I said to you in the future,please don't conform
to the global religious system,accept Jesus. Thats all I want from you.

 

[Asimov]

8-) wertbag,to the christian this is good information because God doesn't
conflict with the nature of things.

Someone carve this into stone....Blue admitted that God does not conflict with natural processes.

God is capable of miracles and he does
more miracles than you could amagine,but he does not make it impossible
to believe him.

No, he doesn't, but then, the flood is an impossibility, and goes against nature, therefore he makes it impossible to believe. Unless the Flood is only an allegory based on a localized event.

He doesn't want robots,and of course you'd believe him if you saw evidence,but would you want to,and would you feel love for him?

So you're saying that people would love him less if they knew he existed.....? That's pretty lame

The whole world will soon believe in a god. The only problem with that will
be that the world will say that there are many ways to God,yet there is just one way,and he is Jesus Christ,Lord of all,amen.
If you just remember what I said to you in the future,please don't conform
to the global religious system,accept Jesus. Thats all I want from you.

Blue, people already say that there is more than one way to believe in god, hence the different religions.

Having one religions means that everyone believes in the same god, the same way.

 

[Wertbag]

God is capable of miracles and he does
more miracles than you could amagine

There are 3 types of miracles, the mundane (eg child birth, burning bush, the tides, rain in the desert) things that often happen and are in fact expected. The improbable (eg surviving a car crash, recovering from a disease, winning lotto) things that are unlikely to occur but can and do naturally happen. And the impossible (eg talking animals, walking on water, calling fire from the sky) things that break the laws of physics and things everyone know cannot occur in the natural world.
When it comes to convincing a non-believer that there is a higher power we don't want to see miracle types 1 and 2, because they do not require divine intervention, we need examples of type 3. That is what we do not get. The calling of fire from the sky is a prime example, in OT days apparently simply calling on God to prove himself got the physical result, yet no one from any religion could do so today.

he does not make it impossible
to believe him. He doesn't want robots,and of course you'd believe him if you saw evidence,but would you want to,and would you feel love for him?

Theres the catch, if God wanted everyone to believe he could make it so easy to know which religion (if any) is correct. Don't whisper to the soul, yell it to the world, don't write an ancient book, put it in 6 foot burning letters in the sky. He has the power to convert the world if he so wanted, he hasn't, so either he doesn't want to make it easy for us, doesn't care, or simply isn't there in the first place.
It pretty much boils down to the lack of evidence, we simply don't see it, and pointing to the sky and saying "wow" or looking at flowers and saying "pretty" really doesn't convince people that there are supernatural beings of any kind.

 

[Guest]

The Tuatha'an/So you're saying that people would love him less if they knew he existed.....? That's pretty lame

The whole world will soon believe in a god. The only problem with that will
be that the world will say that there are many ways to God,yet there is just one way,and he is Jesus Christ,Lord of all,amen.
If you just remember what I said to you in the future,please don't conform
to the global religious system,accept Jesus. Thats all I want from you.

Blue, people already say that there is more than one way to believe in god, hence the different religions.

Having one religions means that everyone believes in the same god, the same way.

8-) Oh' so you would love God if you saw him? Be careful of what you
wish for because you just might get it! You cannot see God in all his Glory
but you can see Jesus,amen.
It appears that you have very little information about the new world order.
Yes, it could appear that a united religious system might just have one
religion in it to those who lack knowledge,but it will have all religions in it,
and everyone can worship any way they wish too,as long as they do not
say that their way is the only way. Yes,indeed we do already see it is
happening in the world already,and with religious freedom and tolerance
it will get stronger not weaker,so brace yourselves,you are in for a bumpy
ride!
Remember,this is what I said,: When you see everything happening as I
told you it would,my one request from you would be to accept Jesus Christ
and choose to stand out against the global religious system,and if you have to die that you will choose to die for something rather for nothing.
Thats all I want you to do. Thats it.
Do you not know that there are church buildings even today that have more than one religion in them? They respect the right of others to believe
in God any way they choose to. What do they all have in common? God,of
course.

 

[Asimov]

Oh' so you would love God if you saw him? Be careful of what you
wish for because you just might get it! You cannot see God in all his Glory
but you can see Jesus,amen.

Did I say that?? no....

It appears that you have very little information about the new world order.
Yes, it could appear that a united religious system might just have one
religion in it to those who lack knowledge,but it will have all religions in it,
and everyone can worship any way they wish too,as long as they do not
say that their way is the only way. Yes,indeed we do already see it is
happening in the world already,and with religious freedom and tolerance
it will get stronger not weaker,so brace yourselves,you are in for a bumpy
ride!

Once again, acceptance of all religions is not one religion.

Remember,this is what I said,: When you see everything happening as I
told you it would,my one request from you would be to accept Jesus Christ
and choose to stand out against the global religious system,and if you have to die that you will choose to die for something rather for nothing.
Thats all I want you to do. Thats it.
Do you not know that there are church buildings even today that have more than one religion in them? They respect the right of others to believe
in God any way they choose to. What do they all have in common? God,of
course.

yes, I am aware of those types of churches. Centers for positive living, and such. Some are accepting of all religions...but they're not a religion in and of themselves. They have no doctrine, no god...it's all "worship whoever you want, let's hug". It's kinda weird.

Why would I accept Jesus and stand against it? Why would I accept Jesus at all?

 

[Guest]

[quote="The Tuatha'an/
Did I say that?? no....


Once again, acceptance of all religions is not one religion.

blueeyeliner wrote/:
Do you not know that there are church buildings even today that have more than one religion in them? They respect the right of others to believe
in God any way they choose to.
Tuatha'an wrote/:
yes, I am aware of those types of churches. Centers for positive living, and such. Some are accepting of all religions...but they're not a religion in and of themselves. They have no doctrine, no god...it's all "worship whoever you want, let's hug". It's kinda weird.
Tuatha'an wrote/:
Why would I accept Jesus and stand against it? Why would I accept Jesus at all?

:B-fly: Did I say that?
I said that it will be a one world religious system. It will be called the
global church even though it's multi-religious.You cannot project the
normal use of words onto this,it doesn't make sense,but it's happening.
Why would you accept Jesus and stand against the one world religion?
For the simple fact that Jesus Christ is the only way to The Holy Father,
but the one world religion will say that there are many ways to God.
If you don't agree,thats where the trouble starts,and you'll be called a
hater and intolerant. To stand up for The Lord Jesus Christ will again one
day cost you everything,and even your life. If God's son were not real,why does the world still reject him by not believing him or by limiting
him and placing him in a lower position?
Why will it all boil down to the world's religions and Jesus Christ one day?

 

[Guest]

[quote="The Tuatha'an/ Why would I accept Jesus at all?

:Fade-color Honestly,thats not easy to say because everyone's
salvation is a miracle and a personal victory. I cannot tell you
why you would accept Jesus Christ. I know why I did.
This world is empty without love. The world has nothing good
to offer without a greater love than what we humans have. The
world is very cold and lacking real love.
If you desire to be loved for who you are,and you wish that people
could really love each other without hurting each other so much,then
perhaps you might want to believe in Jesus Christ?
The only way to know if he is real or not is to try to find him.
Prayer begins the way,not people.
There will be many road blocks in your way,and many false
religious placed in your path if you make the choice to believe,
but if you really want to know if Jesus lives,you keep searching
and you hang on. God will give you the answers you seek.
He did it for me,so I know he can do it for anyone.

 

[Asimov]

I said that it will be a one world religious system. It will be called the
global church even though it's multi-religious.

Multi-religious does not mean "one world religion". A church that accepts all religions is simply a church that accepts all religions, it does not mean everyone has one religion.

You cannot project the normal use of words onto this,it doesn't make sense,but it's happening.

Oh, of course! If you change the meaning of words, they'll mean something else...why didn't I think of that?

Why would you accept Jesus and stand against the one world religion?
For the simple fact that Jesus Christ is the only way to The Holy Father,
but the one world religion will say that there are many ways to God.
If you don't agree,thats where the trouble starts,and you'll be called a
hater and intolerant.

If I don't believe in God, then I don't care if other people believe there is more than one way...cuz obviously atheism would be a way to God....so I wouldn't be called a hater, and intolerant. I don't hate religion, nor do I hate God.

To stand up for The Lord Jesus Christ will again one
day cost you everything,and even your life.

So says some book written 2000 years ago...why should I believe it?

If God's son were not real,why does the world still reject him by not believing him or by limiting
him and placing him in a lower position?

That's concrete reasoning blue...

blue reasoning:

1)If Jesus is not really the Son of God, why does the world reject him?
2)Jesus must be the Son of God

Why will it all boil down to the world's religions and Jesus Christ one day?

It wont.

 

[Asimov]

Honestly,thats not easy to say because everyone's
salvation is a miracle and a personal victory.

1) God causes miracles
2) Everyones salvation is a miracle.
3) God causes salvation.

This world is empty without love. The world has nothing good
to offer without a greater love than what we humans have. The
world is very cold and lacking real love.

I disagree, this world is full of love, you just don't see it. You're looking through clouded eyes.

If you desire to be loved for who you are,and you wish that people
could really love each other without hurting each other so much,then
perhaps you might want to believe in Jesus Christ?

Jesus Christ doesn't love me for who I am, nor does he accept me for who I am. He loves me, but he's willing to hurt me...how is that different from your view of "the real world"?

 

[Guest]

I said that it will be a one world religious system. It will be called the
global church even though it's multi-religious.

Multi-religious does not mean "one world religion". A church that accepts all religions is simply a church that accepts all religions, it does not mean everyone has one religion.

: Try using that on the new world order and see if it will
fly,o.k? Lets see how brave you will be then.
Personally,I believe you'll conform to the global religious system,
because thats what you did when you went to school from what it
appears so far. You let them take God out of the classroom for you,
and let them teach you an ancient religious practice and tell you that
it's a new concept. You sound easy to fool to me.

 

[Guest]

Honestly,thats not easy to say because everyone's
salvation is a miracle and a personal victory.

1) God causes miracles
2) Everyones salvation is a miracle.
3) God causes salvation.

This world is empty without love. The world has nothing good
to offer without a greater love than what we humans have. The
world is very cold and lacking real love.

Jesus Christ doesn't love me for who I am, nor does he accept me for who I am. He loves me, but he's willing to hurt me...how is that different from your view of "the real world"?

:Fade-color God has every right to expect his creation to listen to
him. Only God can know what we need. Man left to his/her own devices
has been proven fatal,and it only causes destruction to human life.
So you are telling me that a world that says "If it feels good,do it",and
"if someone gets hurt,just blame someone else" is a world that has love?
I DON'T THINK SO!!!
Having sex without a legal right to be with that person is just plain old
fashioned nasty in my book,and it's wrong. I don't like to share my
personal DNA like that,and I don't want to make other people feel
disgusted when they see me walk by. I care what the christians think,
and I sure wouldn't want to be offensive or loose.
Of course,you would have to respect yourself and respect others in
order to keep your pants up all the time.
Self control and self respect are good things,amen.

 

[Asimov]

Try using that on the new world order and see if it will
fly,o.k?

Try using what on what new world order??? there is no new world order

Lets see how brave you will be then.

What does bravery have to do with it???

Personally,I believe you'll conform to the global religious system,
because thats what you did when you went to school from what it
appears so far.

Any religion I learned, was from my parents. Schools don't mention God because we live in a multi-cultural society, not some neo-Nazi ideal that you have about public school. I never wanted to go to church, and I never believed in God. Even when my parents took me to church, I didn't want to. It's like forcing someone to believe in Santa Clause. School has nothing to do with any religious ideals.

You let them take God out of the classroom for you,
and let them teach you an ancient religious practice and tell you that
it's a new concept. You sound easy to fool to me.

Wrong blue, you have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't learn anything about evolution in school. Nor did I learn anything about cosmology, or how life began.

I learned how to read and write. Spelling and comprehension. Math, basic science, which covered minor biology, the history of the development of biology, cell theory, basic physics, basic chemistry. History from the time of the greeks up to the end of the cold war.

Nothing about Evolution there...or even the beginning of life! Hmmm...I guess my "conformation of Godless public schools" is not exactly what you think it is, blue. Nice try.

Swing and a miss.

 

[Asimov]

God has every right to expect his creation to listen to him.

Understandable, if he's God, too bad he doesn't make it obvious that he's talkin to people.

Only God can know what we need.

Then I guess God will know how to get my attention.

Man left to his/her own devices
has been proven fatal,and it only causes destruction to human life.

So has God

So you are telling me that a world that says "If it feels good,do it",and
"if someone gets hurt,just blame someone else" is a world that has love?
I DON'T THINK SO!!!

I don't know any worlds that do that.

Having sex without a legal right to be with that person is just plain old fashioned nasty in my book,and it's wrong.

And I care what you think???

I don't like to share my personal DNA like that,and I don't want to make other people feel disgusted when they see me walk by. I care what the christians think, and I sure wouldn't want to be offensive or loose.

People can be offensive in many different ways....

Of course,you would have to respect yourself and respect others in
order to keep your pants up all the time.
Self control and self respect are good things,amen.

I agree, and I wonder why private Christian schools have the highest rates of drug use and premarital sex??

 

[Guest]

[quote="The Tuatha'anAny religion I learned, was from my parents. Schools don't mention God because we live in a multi-cultural society, not some neo-Nazi ideal that you have about public school. I never wanted to go to church, and I never believed in God. Even when my parents took me to church, I didn't want to. It's like forcing someone to believe in Santa Clause. School has nothing to do with any religious ideals.

:B-fly: My parents also didn't take me to church,except for very
few rare occassions. My school didn't support God or preach God to
any of us,and I was free to live as godless as I wanted to.
Something changed all of that. I wonder if you have any idea what
can do that,when my flesh wanted to live just for me,and do what it
wanted to do no matter what anyone said?
You try to make yourself out to be superior than myself and others who
are christians like myself,but I have yet to see any proof.
You try to make it appear as though you have greater intelligence,but
I have not seen any evidence that could support you on it.
Since you believe you know all about me,tell me how I became a blood
bought,Spirit filled,believer in God!
Was I really brainwashed? Was I just a good person all along left to my
own devices? Was I in love with the persecution of millions of christians,
make up your mind for me,o.k?
Now,as to why you believe in evolution and no God,I am sure that the
godless schools and godless behaviors you witnessed and wanted to be
like were a great influence upon you. They were to me at one time also,
but no longer can that be true.
Denie God all you wish to,but you cannot denie him in my life,amen.

 

[Guest]

The Tuatha'an:
Oh, of course! If you change the meaning of words, they'll mean something else...why didn't I think of that?


:
Thats exactly what your false religion does,so why would you
think it superior?