[_ Old Earth _] Evolution is not science

[ReginaForbes]

Evolution is not science but a competing religious belief to that of Christianity and Judaism. How is it not science? In order for something to qualify as a scientific theory it must be able to be observable, testable, and repeatable. Neither of which apply to cosmic evolution (big bang) or biological evolution (monkeys becoming humans). Also, the idea that life can come from non-life violates the principal of biogenesis. Also evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics- specifically the second law, things never get more orderly as time progresses, they only get more disorderly.
Therefore I have come to the conclusion that evolution is not science. And just because many scientists have come to a consensus on something, doesn't make it true. Ages ago "scholarly" people thought the earth was flat (which is in direct contradiction of Isaiah 40:22 and Job 26:10) as it was the "scientific consensus" of the day. Now it is considered a joke. Therefore, one must weigh all of the evidence for themselves and see if it matches up. Personally, the more I study science, the more I realize that the Bible is true, accurate, and correct- for as it says in John 3:12 "If I tell you of earthly things and you believe it not, how shall you believe of heavenly things?" It is imperative that we as Christians stand on the firm foundations of the Gospels in all things and do not try to conform ourselves to this world or the "science" of the day.

 

[Free]

Evolution is not science but a competing religious belief to that of Christianity and Judaism.

It isn't a religious belief, it's a worldview.

Ages ago "scholarly" people thought the earth was flat (which is in direct contradiction of Isaiah 40:22 and Job 26:10) as it was the "scientific consensus" of the day.

Actually, those passages would support a flat earth, if one takes such things literally--circles are two dimensional; they're flat.

Personally, the more I study science, the more I realize that the Bible is true, accurate, and correct- for as it says in John 3:12 "If I tell you of earthly things and you believe it not, how shall you believe of heavenly things?"

The Bible "is true, accurate, and correct" in what way?

It is imperative that we as Christians stand on the firm foundations of the Gospels in all things and do not try to conform ourselves to this world or the "science" of the day.

Psa 19:1 To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. (ESV)

So if we are to believe the above passage, it would make sense then that we could study creation and learn something about God. But with your position, we come dangerously close to dismissing what creation has to say to us, which is learned through science. We must be exceedingly careful that we don't carelessly or so quickly dismiss what science has to say because it could very well be that our understanding of Scripture isn't correct.

 

[ReginaForbes]

Well here is my logic path-
Either the Bible is True and thus, believable OR it is False and not believable. If the Bible is False, if it contains even ONE LIE then the entirety of Scripture must be rejected as it cannot be believed. However, I will continue with the premise that the Bible is True- that EVERYTHING contained wherein is believable.
Scripture itself says "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"- John 3:12 Thus God offers us a way to TEST the Scriptures to see if they really are TRUE. Thus, you test the scriptures using science. As an example, what does the Bible say of the earth? If it says it is flat, then we MUST reject the entirety of scripture as one lie taints all of it (a little bit of leaven leaveneth the whole lump). So what does Scripture say about the earth? We'll use Isaiah 40:22- "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:" Now as you know the Bible was NOT originally written in English, so the word in contention- "circle" which in the original Hebrew is: (חוּג chûg), which means: "Circle, SPHERE, or Arch." And as science has proven, the earth is a sphere. Thus, God's word is scientifically testable. As it says in 1 Thessalonians 5- we are to test the scriptures and accept what is good. And according to Isaiah 1:18 "Come, let us REASON together." So, when evolutionists say we evolved, I have a choice, accept evolution and reject the Bible or accept the Bible and reject evolution. It is a choice we all must make for as it says "No one can serve two masters."- Matthew 6:24

 

[Claudya]

Evolution is not science but a competing religious belief to that of Christianity and Judaism. How is it not science? In order for something to qualify as a scientific theory it must be able to be observable, testable, and repeatable. Neither of which apply to cosmic evolution (big bang) or biological evolution (monkeys becoming humans).

Actually yes it does.
Both the Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang Theory make predictions that are testable. For example if life forms evolved the way they are assumed to, you would expect to find similarities in organs, bone structures, genetics and so on. And that's a hypothesis you can test. No different from any other scientific theory.

Also, the idea that life can come from non-life violates the principal of biogenesis.

That's not a concern of the Theory of evolution. Evolution is only about how one life form developed from another, not where life itself comes from. Abiogenesis is a whole different theory.

Also evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics- specifically the second law, things never get more orderly as time progresses, they only get more disorderly

No it doesn't. The second law of thermodynamics says entropy within a closed system will ever increase, but
a) earth is not a closed system. There's a big ball of energy in the centre of our solar system putting huge amounts of energy into our system, and
b) the 2nd law speaks about entropy in a system as a whole, but it does not for bid for entropy to decline locally. In a system which's entropy is increasing there may be spots where entropy is actually getting lower.

Therefore I have come to the conclusion that evolution is not science. And just because many scientists have come to a consensus on something, doesn't make it true. Ages ago "scholarly" people thought the earth was flat (which is in direct contradiction of Isaiah 40:22 and Job 26:10) as it was the "scientific consensus" of the day. Now it is considered a joke. Therefore, one must weigh all of the evidence for themselves and see if it matches up. Personally, the more I study science, the more I realize that the Bible is true, accurate, and correct- for as it says in John 3:12 "If I tell you of earthly things and you believe it not, how shall you believe of heavenly things?" It is imperative that we as Christians stand on the firm foundations of the Gospels in all things and do not try to conform ourselves to this world or the "science" of the day.

Many Christians don't see any competition between their faith and evolution. It's not an "either - or".

 

[Claudya]

Well here is my logic path-
Either the Bible is True and thus, believable OR it is False and not believable. If the Bible is False, if it contains even ONE LIE then the entirety of Scripture must be rejected as it cannot be believed. However, I will continue with the premise that the Bible is True- that EVERYTHING contained wherein is believable.

It's not that simple. The Bible consists of many different kinds of books. Some are reports (like the gospels), while others are works of poetry like the Psalms or the Song of Solomon. Even Jesus uses parables - metaphors that aren't literally true - to make His points. So since not all of the Bible is to be taken literally I wonder if considering the creation story a metaphor would make the entire Bible a lie.

 

[ReginaForbes]

I will have to say that we must agree to disagree. Personally, I CANNOT accept evolution as I feel it is opposed to the Word of God and therefore, I refuse to accept it. However, as the Word commands us to be respectful to one-another I also refuse to judge my brothers and sisters in Christ who hold an opposing viewpoint. Maybe it is best if a mod closed this thread as I would hate for my words to have caused controversy.

 

[Claudya]

Isn't controversy part of why discussion forums exist?

 

[jasonc]

Isn't controversy part of why discussion forums exist?

you seldom hang in depth on these issues. some prefer not to get into that.i have argued enough that I don't bother. I aint budging, most still here that post in this forum wont. so why bother?

 

[Edward]

Evolution is not science but a competing religious belief to that of Christianity and Judaism. How is it not science? In order for something to qualify as a scientific theory it must be able to be observable, testable, and repeatable. Neither of which apply to cosmic evolution (big bang) or biological evolution (monkeys becoming humans). Also, the idea that life can come from non-life violates the principal of biogenesis. Also evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics- specifically the second law, things never get more orderly as time progresses, they only get more disorderly.
Therefore I have come to the conclusion that evolution is not science. And just because many scientists have come to a consensus on something, doesn't make it true. Ages ago "scholarly" people thought the earth was flat (which is in direct contradiction of Isaiah 40:22 and Job 26:10) as it was the "scientific consensus" of the day. Now it is considered a joke. Therefore, one must weigh all of the evidence for themselves and see if it matches up. Personally, the more I study science, the more I realize that the Bible is true, accurate, and correct- for as it says in John 3:12 "If I tell you of earthly things and you believe it not, how shall you believe of heavenly things?" It is imperative that we as Christians stand on the firm foundations of the Gospels in all things and do not try to conform ourselves to this world or the "science" of the day.

That would be exactly correct. The big bang is not an observable event, nor testable, so isn't science. It's theory. They try to make it science by having a scientist with some letters after his name go up on stage and give his opinion. But it's not real science.
I thought the second law of thermodynamics was that heat flows from hot to cold? No matter, because if this were so, and the universe is billions of years old, it would be a uniform temperature, and it clearly isn't.
I though it was the first law that said everything moves from order to disorder? This is true also, and it proves itself for me every time I clean out my truck or garage, lol. From order to disorder. A big bang (explosion) would throw things outward, and many of the things in the universe come together on the subatomic level so your logic here has no flaw.

 

[ReginaForbes]

Isn't controversy part of why discussion forums exist?

When I get into a debate I become intensity passionate and tend to rip an opponent to shreds. I cannot do this to a brother or sister in Christ, so I'm backing off.

 

[Sinthesis]

I will have to say that we must agree to disagree. Personally, I CANNOT accept evolution as I feel it is opposed to the Word of God and therefore, I refuse to accept it. However, as the Word commands us to be respectful to one-another I also refuse to judge my brothers and sisters in Christ who hold an opposing viewpoint. Maybe it is best if a mod closed this thread as I would hate for my words to have caused controversy.

It seems you want to accept science while not accepting evolution. That's ok. Prior to Darwin the scientific method could be accepted by Christians who naturally hadn't even heard of evolution. However, the power of science exists in the way it forces one to rationally account for unexpected observations. This is how advances are made. Scientists try to make sense of how things are, rather than how they expect them to be.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Evolution is not science but a competing religious belief to that of Christianity and Judaism. How is it not science? In order for something to qualify as a scientific theory it must be able to be observable, testable, and repeatable. Neither of which apply to cosmic evolution (big bang) or biological evolution (monkeys becoming humans). Also, the idea that life can come from non-life violates the principal of biogenesis. Also evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics- specifically the second law, things never get more orderly as time progresses, they only get more disorderly.

May I ask you where you learned these definition of Evolution from? Mainly because in biology Evolution is short for the theory of Evolution which is testable because its based on genetics and population mechanics. Big Bang Cosmology is based on Redshift and our current understanding of Math and Physics, which are testable. Abiogenesis is a chemistry concept based on what we understand about Protein strains and cell development.

The four laws of Thermodynamics are based on Newtonian models that explain how energy works but is not perfect considering that a lot of Newtonian Mechanics break down once we start getting into quantum physics. That is where Einstein, Heisenberg, and Faraday start becoming more authoritative, but I'm not a physics man so I'll have to get verification on that.

Therefore I have come to the conclusion that evolution is not science. And just because many scientists have come to a consensus on something, doesn't make it true. Ages ago "scholarly" people thought the earth was flat (which is in direct contradiction of Isaiah 40:22 and Job 26:10) as it was the "scientific consensus" of the day. Now it is considered a joke. Therefore, one must weigh all of the evidence for themselves and see if it matches up. Personally, the more I study science, the more I realize that the Bible is true, accurate, and correct- for as it says in John 3:12 "If I tell you of earthly things and you believe it not, how shall you believe of heavenly things?" It is imperative that we as Christians stand on the firm foundations of the Gospels in all things and do not try to conform ourselves to this world or the "science" of the day.

You can believe whatever you want, however you won't get much traction amongst those of us who have spent a considerable amount of time studying physics, Chemistry, geology, Biology, etc if your concepts and claims are based on ignorance or shaky foundations.

 

[turnorburn]

This is what it boils down to in the end, here we have an astronomer from Rome voicing his beliefs about evolution and the God of creation.. In his mind its blaspheme to think otherwise..

The papal astronomer said he rejects the literal interpretation of Genesis and instead finds truth through “science.”

“Science is a way of getting close to creation, to really getting intimate with creation, and it’s a way of getting intimate with the creator,” he claimed. “It’s an act of worship.”

http://christiannews.net/2014/10/20...ng-earth-creation-beliefs-almost-blasphemous/

tob

 

[Milk-Drops]

This is what it boils down to in the end, here we have an astronomer from Rome voicing his beliefs about evolution and the God of creation.. In his mind its blaspheme to think otherwise..

The papal astronomer said he rejects the literal interpretation of Genesis and instead finds truth through “science.”

“Science is a way of getting close to creation, to really getting intimate with creation, and it’s a way of getting intimate with the creator,” he claimed. “It’s an act of worship.”

http://christiannews.net/2014/10/20...ng-earth-creation-beliefs-almost-blasphemous/

tob

What it really boils down to is humility. Accept that no one knows everything and there might be some validity in what people who dedicate their lives to studying things that are outside of basic understanding and common sense. Believe what you want but understand that belief is faith and doesn't mean it's an authority over what actually exists. You can believe god did something, but that doesn't mean you understand it.

 

[Edward]

Faith doesn't require understanding. In fact, we're told to lean not upon our understanding. Because God knows that we'd get it wrong anyway, lol. These "wise" scientists aren't even as wise a Gods foolishness. So we really shouldn't put much stock in them. I suspect that some of them genuinely just are wrong while others have an agenda to deceive.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Faith doesn't require understanding. In fact, we're told to lean not upon our understanding. Because God knows that we'd get it wrong anyway, lol. These "wise" scientists aren't even as wise a Gods foolishness. So we really shouldn't put much stock in them. I suspect that some of them genuinely just are wrong while others have an agenda to deceive.

Edward, I understand what you mean, but I don't think you understand some of the consequences of what you are saying. Sure, you put your faith in God, no problems there. However it is because of Men and Women striving to understand that we fields such as

Technology
Medicine
Engineering
Agriculture
psychology
and entertainment.

without understanding, we wouldn't know crap and would be depandent on people telling us what to think and do. A good example is that Western African countries have a sever lack of technology, engineering, and Medicine. Due to this the continent is ravaged by AIDS, Malaria, Ebola, Warlords, and Starvation. Not to mention the influx of Witch burnings/murders and sever human's rights violations.

The US, Europe, and East Africa became Power Houses because they embraced Understanding and modern techniques. There is a reason why Egypt is way past West Africa, and South Africa is the most Finacially stable.

Think about that.

 

[ReginaForbes]

without understanding, we wouldn't know crap and would be depandent on people telling us what to think and do. Think about that.

Without God, there is no understanding. Who do you think created the very men and women who have contributed to the fields of science and technology, etc??

Who do you think has woven the fabric of reality, who created the very laws of nature which govern our world? Who guides the rivers to flow into the oceans, who has told the sun when and where to rise and set in the sky? Were you there when God made the earth and the angels shouted for joy? Do you know the depths of His wisdom? Do you know when He has decided to prepare the wedding feast for His Only Begotten Son? Do you know the names written in the Lamb's book of life? Have you seen the face of the fallen one or prophesied his demise? These things you cannot answer and yet you presume to know more than He who has done all these things.

 

[ReginaForbes]

What it really boils down to is humility. Accept that no one knows everything and there might be some validity in what people who dedicate their lives to studying things that are outside of basic understanding and common sense. Believe what you want but understand that belief is faith and doesn't mean it's an authority over what actually exists. You can believe god did something, but that doesn't mean you understand it.

You misunderstand the concept of humility. Humility is submitting yourself to a God you can't see. Humility is conforming your mind to His Word. Humility is giving all that you have to a being you cannot fully comprehend and will never fully comprehend. Humility is that very same God- who made all things and is endlessly Powerful- incarnating as a man to die on a cross- a humiliating death- just so your sins would be forgiven and you can be together in eternity. Study that, then tell me about humility.

 

[Free]

Without God, there is no understanding. Who do you think created the very men and women who have contributed to the fields of science and technology, etc??

Who do you think has woven the fabric of reality, who created the very laws of nature which govern our world? Who guides the rivers to flow into the oceans, who has told the sun when and where to rise and set in the sky? Were you there when God made the earth and the angels shouted for joy? Do you know the depths of His wisdom? Do you know when He has decided to prepare the wedding feast for His Only Begotten Son? Do you know the names written in the Lamb's book of life? Have you seen the face of the fallen one or prophesied his demise? These things you cannot answer and yet you presume to know more than He who has done all these things.

I see no such presumption and Milk-Drops makes a good point about what science has accomplished.

You misunderstand the concept of humility. Humility is submitting yourself to a God you can't see. Humility is conforming your mind to His Word. Humility is giving all that you have to a being you cannot fully comprehend and will never fully comprehend. Humility is that very same God- who made all things and is endlessly Powerful- incarnating as a man to die on a cross- a humiliating death- just so your sins would be forgiven and you can be together in eternity. Study that, then tell me about humility.

Again, Milk-Drops makes a good point about humility; there is no misunderstanding of the concept.

 

[Free]

This is what it boils down to in the end, here we have an astronomer from Rome voicing his beliefs about evolution and the God of creation.. In his mind its blaspheme to think otherwise..

The papal astronomer said he rejects the literal interpretation of Genesis and instead finds truth through “science.”

“Science is a way of getting close to creation, to really getting intimate with creation, and it’s a way of getting intimate with the creator,” he claimed. “It’s an act of worship.”

http://christiannews.net/2014/10/20...ng-earth-creation-beliefs-almost-blasphemous/

tob

No, it doesn't boil down to this. And do not bring in the RCC into this forum. You know that is verboten.