TheBarrd
Member
Pro 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Faith without works........is Faith.
- Thread starter Kidron
- Start date
Pro 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
AmbassadorofChrist
Member
The forgiveness in this passage is hardly a free gift. The servant was forgiven because he did something. He pleaded.Please share!
That's what this is all about.
'You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 'Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?' 34 "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him (IOW, the debt was reinstated). 35 "My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart." (Matthew 18:32-35 NASB bold, underline, and parenthesis mine)
Some argue that the forgiveness being spoken about here is not salvation forgiveness. I think it is, but it doesn't matter. The point is, this forgiveness was a free gift and was then rescinded. And Jesus said this can be compared to how it is in the kingdom (vs. 23), and that this is how his Father will treat each of us if we act like the wicked servant (vs. 35).
So, this forgiveness--this free gift of God--is given, and can be revoked, in the kingdom of God. Therefore, it's impossible that Paul was including forgiveness in his "the gifts...of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29 NASB). That would create a contradiction between Paul and Jesus in our scriptures.
We on the other hand do not plead for forgiveness. Our salvation is not based on whether we forgive. We simply believe what has been done on our behalf(1 Cor 15: 1-4), and we are more than forgiven.(Roms 4: 3-8)
AmbassadorofChrist
Member
Romans 1: 15 - So, as much as is me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Romans 1: 16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Romans 1:17 - For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Our salvation is located in the book of Romans(chp 1-5 to be more specific for our justification unto eternal life), not the gospel of Matthew. If you are basing your salvation on anything the book of Mathew says, I suggest you read Romans, for therein is the power of God unto salvation.
Our salvation is Located within Jesus Christ and no other.
He is eternal life:
And this is eternallife, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
John 17:3
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. John 5:39
He alone has the words of eternal life.
But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
John 6:68
Here is the Gospel in Romans you are looking for -
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:7-8
Eternal life to those who by patient continuance in DOING GOOD... Seeking immortality.
JLB
The king freely forgave the man, because he humbled himself.
33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?'
34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
35 So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.
Matthew 18:33-35
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. Romans 1:28-32
...unforgiving is ranked right in there with those who hate God.
The Gospel in Romans.
JLB
AmbassadorofChrist
Member
You only see what you want to see. That is obtaining salvation through your works.
Romans 3:10 - As iit is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:12 - They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no not one.
Romans 3:19-20. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED IN HIS SIGHT: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Now here comes that great power of God
Romans 3:21-22
But Now(oh what wonderful words) the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
TheBarrd
Member
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Everyone knows these verses. They are probably the most famous in the entire Bible.
Notice, these verses don't even mention Paul at all. God did not give Paul to the world to give us everlasting life.
Paul did not die for us.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Paul is not important...he is.
I am saying that our salvation is not in Paul. It is in our Lord and Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.
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AmbassadorofChrist
Member
Paul is nothing more then a mere ink pen and apostle to the Gentiles. The words written in any of Pauls epistles are of God, Not Paul. That goes with any epistle or book from any one.
2 Tim 2:15 - Study to shew thyself aproved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
So when it says I am ready to preach unto you the Gospel which is the power of God unto salvation, these are words of God. We are told as gentiles by God through the apostle of the gentiles where our salavtion lies.
Salvation is by Grace through faith... Ephesians 2
The life we are expected to lead, after we are saved by Grace, and given His Spirit, is well documented in the scriptures.
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:7-8
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
TheBarrd
Member
Lots of folks just love to quote these verses:
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
I love those verses, myself.
But let's not forget this verse that follows:
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Hear Paul saying that, while our salvation is the gift of God, and not of works lest anyone should boast, that doesn't mean that we are not expected to do those good works.
Our salvation lies in the sacrifice that Jesus made for us on the cross. It is His precious blood that has paid for our redemption.
But there's a bit more to the story than that. We are created unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Therefore, let us not simply 'talk the talk'....let us also 'walk the walk'...as our blessed Creator hath ordained....
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
I love those verses, myself.
But let's not forget this verse that follows:
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Hear Paul saying that, while our salvation is the gift of God, and not of works lest anyone should boast, that doesn't mean that we are not expected to do those good works.
Our salvation lies in the sacrifice that Jesus made for us on the cross. It is His precious blood that has paid for our redemption.
But there's a bit more to the story than that. We are created unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Therefore, let us not simply 'talk the talk'....let us also 'walk the walk'...as our blessed Creator hath ordained....
Jethro Bodine
Member
...A test response.
This is only a test.
If this had been an actual post, you would have been notified by the staff of any emergency.
(And YOU would have been notified by the staff for not quoting the scripture you base your test on. Obadiah)
See, I DO have a sense of humor, I really do!
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Yes sir.
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignationand wrath. Romans 2:8
TheBarrd
Member
And then there is James' famous verse:
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
As I have already said:
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
So you see, living faith is working faith. It's not about trying to "justify yourself by works of the law". It is plain and simply "doing what comes naturally" to a man with a living spirit within him...
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
As I have already said:
And back to James;
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
So you see, living faith is working faith. It's not about trying to "justify yourself by works of the law". It is plain and simply "doing what comes naturally" to a man with a living spirit within him...
Jethro Bodine
Member
I agree that we find additional information about this in the gospels, the passage you cite certainly being a direct reference to this matter.
Here in Matthew 5:22-26 NASB we see this matter of relational issues expounded upon a little more. In this text we see implications of this matter of interpersonal relationships being of eternal value, not just temporal:
"...everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever * says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever * says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. 23 "Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. 25 "Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 "Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent. " (Matthew 5:22-26 NASB)
Jethro Bodine
Member
Jethro Bodine
Member
What work of the law would that represent that asking for forgiveness is somehow a work that can not justify?
The tax collector was very passionate about asking for mercy in Luke 18:13-14 NASB, and he was justified, nonetheless. His work did not justify him (that is 'make' him righteous). The faith to ask for God's mercy did.
Maybe we did, maybe we did not. But salvation certainly involves seeking God's forgiveness.
I think what you're getting at is that our acts of forgiveness towards others don't earn us justification/salvation. And I agree. It shows us to have, and to be continuing in, the forgiveness of our own sins which did justify us apart from any work of forgiveness we might do. Like the woman in Luke 7:47-50 NASB. Her love SHOWED her to have faith, and therefore, to have her sins forgiven. Her act of love in and of itself did not forgive her sins. The faith that drove her love did that. Her love is how we can see she herself has been forgiven.
Gotta run. The brain surgeries are backing up again....