[_ Old Earth _] Fire breathing dinosaurs

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

Does Job describe fire breathing dinosaurs? There is a beetle that exist today that has the ability to cause fire to come from his rear appendage, the Bombardier Beetle. If it has that ability then why couldn't some of the dinosaurs also have that ability.

 

[Barbarian]

Does Job describe fire breathing dinosaurs? There is a beetle that exist today that has the ability to cause fire to come from his rear appendage, the Bombardier Beetle. If it has that ability then why couldn't some of the dinosaurs also have that ability.

Boiling hot chemicals. But not fire. And that is related to other chemicals and structures found in less spectacular beetles. The problem is that vertebrates don't have any structures from which even very hot chemical jets could evolve.

For something like that to appear, there has to be a chain of intermediate forms that would at worst be harmless to the organism. And there just isn't a way. Humans, who use hands for almost everything, would be well-served by a second pair of them. But there's no path to evolve a second set of limbs.

 

[Jim Parker]

Does Job describe fire breathing dinosaurs?

Does he? Where?

There is a beetle that exist today that has the ability to cause fire to come from his rear appendage, the Bombardier Beetle. If it has that ability then why couldn't some of the dinosaurs also have that ability.

The fact that a beetle today can squirt a combination of chemicals out it's rear end that explode when they mix has absolutely no connection with reptilian animals which went extinct 65,000 years ago.
Squirting chemicals out the rear end is not "breathing."
A dinosaur is not the mythical beast commonly referred to as a "dragon."

 

[Jim Parker]

Does Job describe fire breathing dinosaurs?

Where?

There is a beetle that exist today that has the ability to cause fire to come from his rear appendage, the Bombardier Beetle. If it has that ability then why couldn't some of the dinosaurs also have that ability.

That beetle exists today.
The dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago. (Long before Job existed)
There is no correlation.

The bombardier beetle does not "breathe fire."
From: http://news.mit.edu/2015/how-bombardier-beetles-produce-defensive-spray-0430
"The liquid these beetles eject is called benzoquinone, and is actually a fairly common defensive agent among insects, Arndt says. But bombardier beetles are unique in their ability to superheat the liquid and expel it in an intense, pulsating jet.


The key is that they synthesize the chemical at the instant of use, mixing two chemical precursors in a protective chamber in their hindquarters. As the materials combine to form the irritant, they also give off intense heat that brings the liquid almost to the boiling point — and, in the process, generates the pressure needed to expel it in a jet."
There is no correlation between what the beetle does and what the mythical "fire breathing dragon" was supposed to do because the beetle does not produce fire.

 

[Barbarian]

The key here, is that the chemicals used by bombardier beetles are very close to those already present in other beetles,and there still exist all sorts of intermediate examples of beetles that use these chemicals in less spectacular ways. On the other hand, there are no plausible transitional forms for fire-breathing dragons.

If anyone can show me one I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

[turnorburn]

The key here, is that the chemicals used by bombardier beetles are very close to those already present in other beetles,and there still exist all sorts of intermediate examples of beetles that use these chemicals in less spectacular ways. On the other hand, there are no plausible transitional forms for fire-breathing dragons.

If anyone can show me one I'd be interested in seeing it.

dirtfarmer already gave you a clue...

 

[Barbarian]

dirtfarmer already gave you a clue...

No fire breathing dragons in the Bible, either. The notion that every mythical creature mentioned in the Bible has to be an actual animal rejects the evidence from the text itself.

 

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

Unicorns are mentioned in scripture in several places. There are "unicorns" alive today, the "Rhinoceros unicornis". About 2oo years ago when "unicorn" was mentioned it didn't refer to a horse type creature with a horn in the middle of it's head, but to the Indian Rhino or as it is called sometime, " The Greater One-Horned" rhino.

It is my belief that neither the "Terrible Lizard" (dinosaurs) that had the same abilities as the modern day "Bombardier Beetle", nor the unicorns(the Greater One-Horned Rhino) that are mentioned in scripture are fables.

 

[Sinthesis]

dirtfarmer here

Does Job describe fire breathing dinosaurs? There is a beetle that exist today that has the ability to cause fire to come from his rear appendage, the Bombardier Beetle. If it has that ability then why couldn't some of the dinosaurs also have that ability.

What verses are you talking about?

Incidentally, unicorn refers to the extinct auroch.

 

[Cygnus]

No fire breathing dragons in the Bible, either. The notion that every mythical creature mentioned in the Bible has to be an actual animal rejects the evidence from the text itself.

From what I read there is a certain amount of plausibility to the concept.
Decomposing vegatable material produces methane gas. We know cows eat grass which decomposes ...and then they can burp out this methane gas.
If a cow can burp out methane gas...why not a dinosaur?

 

[Barbarian]

From what I read there is a certain amount of plausibility to the concept.
Decomposing vegatable material produces methane gas. We know cows eat grass which decomposes ...and then they can burp out this methane gas.
If a cow can burp out methane gas...why not a dinosaur?

So do you. Guess why fire-breathing vertebrates are not possible. Hint: how do you bring oxygen into your body?

 

[Cygnus]

So do you. Guess why fire-breathing vertebrates are not possible. Hint: how do you bring oxygen into your body?

That didn't answer the question.

 

[Cygnus]

The dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago. (Long before Job existed)

Soft dinosaur tissue refutes that claim.

 

[Jim Parker]

Soft dinosaur tissue refutes that claim.

That would be a young earth, creationist notion.
A different topic.

 

[Cygnus]

The dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago. (Long before Job existed)

I replied with...Soft dinosaur tissue refutes that claim.

That would be a young earth, creationist notion.
A different topic.

Perhaps, but the comment I replied to would then be an Old Earth evolutionist notion....A different topic.

But as I said above....If a cow can burp out methane gas...why not a dinosaur?

 

[Jim Parker]

But as I said above....If a cow can burp out methane gas...why not a dinosaur?

Cow farts/burps are not even close to being the same as dragons breathing fire.
So, you were just kidding, right?

 

[dirtfarmer]

Cow farts/burps are not even close to being the same as dragons breathing fire.
So, you were just kidding, right?

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

What is your interpretation of Job 41:18-21?

 

[Jim Parker]

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

What is your interpretation of Job 41:18-21?

That is part of a passage that starts at Ch 38 in which God makes it very clear to Job that what God does is beyond Job's understanding.

 

[dirtfarmer]

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

While I might agree that it was beyond the understanding of Job, that doesn't make it a fable or an untruth. Are we to believe that even in 38:30, that it could not be talking about the Ice Age, or verse 31 is not talking about constellations. Even gestation periods are mentioned.
Is not the description of "Behemoth", in 40:15-19, a description of dinosaurs that one lived on earth.

So, yes I taken the book of Job as history and I don't find that "fire breathing" dinosaurs are an impossibility.

 

[Roro1972]

Boiling hot chemicals. But not fire. And that is related to other chemicals and structures found in less spectacular beetles. The problem is that vertebrates don't have any structures from which even very hot chemical jets could evolve.

For something like that to appear, there has to be a chain of intermediate forms that would at worst be harmless to the organism. And there just isn't a way. Humans, who use hands for almost everything, would be well-served by a second pair of them. But there's no path to evolve a second set of limbs.

then Giraffes should not exist, but they do. what intermediate forms let to a long neck and a heavy duty heart and a special heart valve