This was a long time ago, but the pastor of the first Church I went to was kind of Calvinist and he got me to reading Hodge. I think I asked him if there were any Baptist systematic theologies and I believe I remember him saying no, or nothing very good or something. I read a lot of John Gill and Spurgeon and others, but don't remember if they had put something together systematically.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
For Who Did Christ Die? by John Owen
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Iconoclast
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Abstract of Principles by J.P. Boyce
J.L.Dagg Manual of Theology
Are two solid ones that were available to him.
J.L.Dagg Manual of Theology
Are two solid ones that were available to him.
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
Thank God, He loved us while we were still a sinner; separated from Christ.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:14-18
- whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life
- For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
- but that the world through Him might be saved
- but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
JLB
You know all them verses apply only for Gods elect Rom 5:6 goes with Rom 8:32-34
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
And nobody Christ died for and rose again,is ever condemned.
Paul says of himself while "we" were still sinners.
A sinner is not saved saved.
When was Paul saved?
A sinner is not someone who is saved.
When was Paul saved?
Paul desired the elect to also become saved.
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10
How do the elect become saved?
JLB
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Follow the text JLB;
We can see from the text....the WE is the justified ELECT....look here
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement
JLB...clearly this passage speaks only of the elect , those sinners who God elected and effectually called from sin and death unto Life In Jesus. Why would you or anyone else want to oppose this great truth given to us, by special revelation in scripture???I thought you would see it by yourself, but you seek to try and get around it.
You cannot refute this, yet you continue to claim that Calvinism, Calvinists, hold to false teaching?
Show from the context of Romans 5:1-11 where I have posted any falsehood, or did I accurately post it?
Iconoclast
Member
Here is the newest and one of the best Available;
Systematic Theology – FirstLove Ministries
www.firstloveministries.org
Here in this passage we see the elect mentioned -
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10
Paul desires for the elect, to also obtain salvation.
Paul was a sinner, persecuting the Church.
When did Paul become saved?
1 Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”
Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”
6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”
Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
7 And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one. 8 Then Saul arose from the ground, and when his eyes were opened he saw no one. But they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.
Ananias Baptizes Saul
10 Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, “Ananias.”
And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”
11 So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying. 12 And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”
13 Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”
15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”
17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.
19 So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus. Acts 9:1-19
- But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
Paul was chosen for purpose, not salvation.
The Purpose:
- to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
Paul was chosen to be an apostle, to bear the name of the LORD before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
Chosen refers to purpose, not "chosen for salvation".
Paul was not saved until he confessed Jesus Christ as Lord; repented, just like everyone is saved.
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10
- with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
JLB
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Paul desired for the elect to become saved, just like himself.
Only those hear and believe in Jesus Christ are saved.
Please explain how Paul Paul became saved.
When did Paul become saved?
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10
JLB
All people are sinners, until they are saved.
So you can't answer the question?
That's what I thought.
When did Paul become saved?
JLB
Iconoclast
Member
Are you looking to skip out on Romans 5???
Your response here should have been...I have never considered that section in Romans 5 the way it is clearly laid out! Thank you for pointing out that truth about who is being written about! I will not abuse Rom.5:6. or 5:8 again by pulling it out of it's context like I have done several times.Yes...I will answer you once again, even though you did not respond to our discussion of Romans 5. Paul is describing his understanding of why he suffers for the sake of the gospel. The elect are going to obtain salvation in time.
That is what election is concerned about. Those who hate these teachings for whatever reason will go all over creation to deny the truth.I expect you are going to do the same right here, as the romans 5 passage still is there,lol.
Yes he was as all those elected by God unto salvation, start out dead in sin. They can be religious but are dead.
What a foolish statement as predicted! to avoid the truth of Godconcerning election unto salvation, you now seek to fragment the truth of God. Every elect sinners is saved from their sins, unto good works which are ordained Eph2:10
Why would you suggest otherwise. You foolish idea that Saul was only chosen for a purpose or task , and not salvation is ludicrous
you are suggesting God is electing unsaved people to do the work of the church???This displays a complete contempt and dishonoring of the word of God.
This is a part of how God was using Paul. To say salvation was not in view is not wise
And yet we read this;13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Are you looking to skip out on Romans 5???
Yes...I will answer you once again, even though you did not respond to our discussion of Romans 5. Paul is describing his understanding of why he suffers for the sake of the gospel. The elect are going to obtain salvation in time.
That is what election is concerned about. Those who hate these teachings for whatever reason will go all over creation to deny the truth.I expect you are going to do the same right here, as the romans 5 passage still is there,lol.
Yes he was as all those elected by God unto salvation, start out dead in sin. They can be religious but are dead.
What a foolish statement as predicted! to avoid the truth of Godconcerning election unto salvation, you now seek to fragment the truth of God. Every elect sinners is saved from their sins, unto good works which are ordained Eph2:10
Why would you suggest otherwise. You foolish idea that Saul was only chosen for a purpose or task , and not salvation is ludicrous
This displays a complete contempt and dishonoring of the word of God.
This is a part of how God was using Paul. To say salvation was not in view is not wise
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Please answer the simple question?
Paul desires to see the elect receive salvation as he received salvation.
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10
How do the elect obtain salvation in Christ?
How did Paul become saved?
electedbyhim
Member
Here is your answer.
Spiritual Blessings in Christ
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
Eph 1:5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
Eph 1:8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight
Eph 1:9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him
Eph 1:10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him
Eph 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Eph 1:12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory.
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.
As to when the elect are regenerated, that is all on God, we have nothing to do with that. Ephesians 1:13 will give you a clue to this.
For myself, I have heard the gospel countless times. I did not believe until many moons later, in His timing.