Forgiveness?

[Ed the Ned]

Reading Matthew 6 vs 14 and 15 I started wondering about forgiveness and how it affects our salvation. Forgiveness is a far bigger word than we give it credit. Let me quote the verse I will use 3 translations so that it is not lost in translation.
From the mouth of our Lord and Saviour.

"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive you." - KJV

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins" - NIV

"If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you, But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins." - NLT

Now this is written just after the Lords prayer, which to me emphasises we sin daily. If I do not forgive the person who sins against me. I cannot expect God to forgive mine.

Does that mean that not forgiving someone else is an unforgiveable sin? Your views please.

 

[Joe67]

Ed,

Our neighbor is the dwelling place of the holy Spirit.

If we do not loose our neighbor from the bondage he has incurred by wounding us, then we do despite to the Spirit of grace. When we bind our neighbors failures on him, then we bind our neighbors failures on us. This is how we blaspheme against the holy Spirit.

We are forgiven by our heavenly Father by Jesus Christ as we forgive our neighbor.

Joe

 

[seekandlisten]

I think unforgiveable sin is what is committed in one's heart/thoughts and it would be more a 'hardening' of one's heart towards God so to speak. When we decide not to give the homeless on the street the change in our pocket is that not a 'sin' in our hearts, something only God sees? The actions on the outside mimic what's inside. Sometimes we try to disguise the inside by our actions but God knows and judges accordingly. If we do something for our neighbor and they wrong us we need to forgive them and even if we say we forgive them yet are thinking on the inside, 'I'll never do that again.' Did we really just forgive them?

 

[Ret]

Forgiveness is a far bigger word than we give it credit.

Yes, though I believe forgiveness is more than a WORD, it is an attitude of true humility
coupled with confession of a wrong one has done toward another, and/or vice-versa.

 

[TheCatholic]

.......Does that mean that not forgiving someone else is an unforgiveable sin? Your views please.

You're right. This is almost just like my other thread. LOL.

As I said over there, the verse you quoted seems pretty clear:

".........if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive you." - KJV

If you are in sin, then you can't get into heaven........................
.....and if God doesn't forgive your sins, then you are in sin..........
.....and if you don't forgive others, then God won't forgive your sins.

That was sort of a backwards progression there, but connect the dots. Jesus said it: "But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive you."

Bingo. There it is.

 

[Joe67]

Ed,

This is not just merely an event. This is an disposition of heart and mind. The grace of God works upon our spirits and our feelings and our thoughts for extended periods to convert us and give us the spirit and grace of forgiveness deep within our inward parts. Thus the Seed of Christ within our hearts and minds is brought to spiritual maturity. The Seed that justifies us is also the Seed that sanctifies us and sets us apart to minister to the weak.

Consider Peter. Consider King David. Forgiveness was not the first thought upon their minds. God brought them by his grace to finally be clothed in humility before God and toward God's children. Peter was a hard working fisherman. David was a sheepherder turned into a warrior. Jesus' words are spoken to his children who have many struggles in their daily existence. They are properly understood within the sphere of life's ordinary struggles. Jesus' words are not academic dogmatics. Our humanity is the temple for the holy Spirit of Jesus. Jesus feels our human struggle to attain the spiritual. It is a slow, steady, daily battle against the wicked one. Jesus gives us his victory that he has already won.

Humility is the last lesson learned in maturity to prepare us for the presence of God. It is symbolized by the golden altar of incense and the apothecary beaten very small and burnt till it is a coal to be plucked from the altar. The smoke of the incense is our covering in the presence of God.

Phil 2:8
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. KJV

Joe

 

[Ed the Ned]

Is my salvation then based on my belief in Christ and not soley on the forgiveness of God? I am asking this to get a better understanding of the gospel. I believe we sin daily, sometimes we don't even know we have sinned, thats why we ask Gods forgiveness daily. In saying that, I also believe that when we recieve the Holy spirit, the Holy Spirit speaks for us daily as in Romans 8 vs 27.

I believe we must forgive others every day, we must not harbour resentment, bitterness, anger or hate. As this will affect our walk with God and according to those verses God's forgiveness.

I do like this though:

This is not just merely an event. This is an disposition of heart and mind. The grace of God works upon our spirits and our feelings and our thoughts for extended periods to convert us and give us the spirit and grace of forgiveness deep within our inward parts. Thus the Seed of Christ within our hearts and minds is brought to spiritual maturity. The Seed that justifies us is also the Seed that sanctifies us and sets us apart to minister to the weak.

It shows our walk with God is not an event but a process and everyday we mature and grow as the Seed sanctifies us.

 

[TheCatholic]

This is not just merely an event. This is an disposition of heart and mind......

It may well be a disposition of heart and mind, but it is also an event. Which brings us back to square one: God forgiving you is contingent upon you forgiving others. This is a "work", something you must "do".

 

[Joe67]

This is not just merely an event. This is an disposition of heart and mind......

It may well be a disposition of heart and mind, but it is also an event. Which brings us back to square one: God forgiving you is contingent upon you forgiving others. This is a "work", something you must "do".

Catholic,

In speaking of the grace of God that is in Jesus our Lord, it is yes and yes ( amen ). It is a disposition of heart and a work of God through us.

Eph 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them KJV

Suffer it to be so.

Joe

 

[TheCatholic]

"Faith Alone" is taught nowhere in the Bible. In fact, there is only ONE place in the entire Bible where those two words - "faith alone" - stand by side, and that is in James 2:24: "You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone."

 

[savedbygrace57]

I believe that forgiveness is a free gift of Gods grace to His chosen through the redemption that is in christ Jesus per eph 1:


4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 

[Joe67]

I believe that forgiveness is a free gift of Gods grace to His chosen through the redemption that is in christ Jesus per eph 1:


4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

sbg57,

Amen and amen. He is speaking his free gift of forgiveness to us through the blood of Jesus from the new Jerusalem which is above, the free woman, the mother of us all. Hebrews 12 and Galatians 4.

Let us not be moved away from the hope of the gospel.

Joe