Freewill religion ! - Part 2

[savedbygrace57]

This is why I believe this is True !

2 Thess 2:1-4

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Isa 14:13-14

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Man's own freewill by far is the most believed and popular religious conviction throughout the whole world. Rev 13:1;5-8

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It's adherents are linked to all the various denominations, and sects, yes, even the non religious adhere to man's freewill.

So John writes Rev 13:16

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

That is all follow this deadly concept or philosophy of man's freewill !

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]36931[/split] by savedbygrace57 Titled Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

 

[christian_disable]

Re: Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]36931[/split]

 

[savedbygrace57]

Re: Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

Messenger

And notice that that Paul didn't need to tell the jailor to repent; for he was already repenting. This was evidence that God already gave him a new heart. (Ezekiel 36:26)

Absolutely, in fact, the Gospel Imperatives are only given to them that are New Creatures in Christ, and their obedience to those commands are evidences of the same ! The Flesh or the Natural man is not commanded to repent nor believe on Christ , but they which are begotten again !

 

[savedbygrace57]

That repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name !

Lk 24:47

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

That repentance and remission or forgiveness of sins should be preached in His Name, meaning that His Person and Work has been the meritorious cause, and or the procuring cause of them for you.

Peter preached Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

That's the benefit of Him being exalted by the Right hand of God that He may give or bestow or grant repentance [a change of mind] and forgiveness of sins, To Israel, the Chosen Israel of God, not ethnic Israel.

So in true Gospel Preaching as it is done here, Repentance and Remission of sins is declared to be effects of Christ's Person and Work for His Elect, or the Chosen of God.

The unlearned make it as though repentance is required of man before Christ becomes their Saviour, but that's not the case, repentance is given to all those Christ is an exalted Saviour in behalf of !560

 

[savedbygrace57]

Who then can be saved ?


Matt 19:24-26

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

What does this mean ?Read carefully Jesus answer in Vs 26 to the question by his disciples as to who then can be saved ? We must conclude if honest, that by nature, man is in such a helpless and hopeless condition by sin, that its impossible for him to be saved except by a special Divine Intervention, and so its only possible by God's Sovereign Intervention ! which such intervention is completely out of man's control, and lies in only having been elected in Christ before the foundation of the world, which does secure unto us the Redemption that comes through His Blood alone, and the Sovereign Life giving communications of the Spirit ! Apart from this man has no hope of Salvation !561

 

[Messenger]

Re: Freewill religion is the Man of Sin ! - Part 2

Who then can be saved ?


Matt 19:24-26

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

What does this mean ?Read carefully Jesus answer in Vs 26 to the question by his disciples as to who then can be saved ? We must conclude if honest, that by nature, man is in such a helpless and hopeless condition by sin, that its impossible for him to be saved except by a special Divine Intervention, and so its only possible by God's Sovereign Intervention ! which such intervention is completely out of man's control, and lies in only having been elected in Christ before the foundation of the world, which does secure unto us the Redemption that comes through His Blood alone, and the Sovereign Life giving communications of the Spirit ! Apart from this man has no hope of Salvation !561

Just as no amount of physical riches can buy a person's salvation; neither can salvation be obtained by any spiritual riches, by things a person does or has done, to try and get himself saved (Ephesians 2:8-9); or he may be spiritually rich in what he thinks is truth, and puts his trust in that, but according to God, it's
just filthy rags because no one has any righteousness of himself (Romans 3:10; Isaiah 64:6).

Salvation is only possible by God's Intervention, His Divine Power. To the ones who were ordained to eternal life (Acts 13:48), Christ makes them meet; He causes them, and gifts them (John 3:27) with everything they need to serve Him which are all the things needed for eternal life and godliness:

2 Peter 1:3-11 According as His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, instead of filthy rags, these are given a new garment! (Revelation 19:8)

Isaiah 43:11 I am Jehovah; and there is no Savior besides Me. (LITV)

Salvation is all the work of God!

Jeremiah 51:10 The LORD hath brought forth our righteousness: come, and let us declare in Zion the work of the LORD our God.

Who can oppose Him? For He does what He wills!

TGBTG!

 

[savedbygrace57]

Its by Faith that it might be by Grace !

Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise[of Eternal Inheritance] might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Faith here is not a condition that the seed must meet or do in order for God's Promise of Eternal Inheritance [Heb 9:15] unto them to be made sure, for if that was the case, God's Promise is contingent upon them, their act; But we take Faith here to be Christ, who is the object of their God given Faith, as it was their Father Abraham's, and so its through Christ's Faithfulness to the Eternal or Everlasting Covenant, that in time He would die on the Cross for their sins, and His Faithfulness to that ensured the Promised Eternal Inheritance unto all the Seed. The Eternal Inheritance is what the writer of Hebrews means here Heb 9:12,15

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Now this is also True because them redeemed by Christ's Blood Eph 1:7

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

are given the Holy Spirit as a down payment of their Eternal Inheritance secured to them by Christ Eph 1:13-14

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Its an great evil men have invented, to make Faith the Condition men must perform before God's Promise is fulfilled unto them, whereas Faith is given to acknowledge Christ as the one who has been Faithful to the Covenant Engagements that secured the Inheritance to all the Seed. Isa 53:10


10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Re: Freewill religion is the Man of Sin ! - Part 2

Who then can be saved ?


Matt 19:24-26

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

What does this mean ?Read carefully Jesus answer in Vs 26 to the question by his disciples as to who then can be saved ? We must conclude if honest, that by nature, man is in such a helpless and hopeless condition by sin, that its impossible for him to be saved except by a special Divine Intervention, and so its only possible by God's Sovereign Intervention ! which such intervention is completely out of man's control, and lies in only having been elected in Christ before the foundation of the world, which does secure unto us the Redemption that comes through His Blood alone, and the Sovereign Life giving communications of the Spirit ! Apart from this man has no hope of Salvation !561

Just as no amount of physical riches can buy a person's salvation; neither can salvation be obtained by any spiritual riches, by things a person does or has done, to try and get himself saved (Ephesians 2:8-9); or he may be spiritually rich in what he thinks is truth, and puts his trust in that, but according to God, it's
just filthy rags because no one has any righteousness of himself (Romans 3:10; Isaiah 64:6).

Salvation is only possible by God's Intervention, His Divine Power. To the ones who were ordained to eternal life (Acts 13:48), Christ makes them meet; He causes them, and gifts them (John 3:27) with everything they need to serve Him which are all the things needed for eternal life and godliness:

2 Peter 1:3-11 According as His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, instead of filthy rags, these are given a new garment! (Revelation 19:8)

Isaiah 43:11 I am Jehovah; and there is no Savior besides Me. (LITV)

Salvation is all the work of God!

Jeremiah 51:10 The LORD hath brought forth our righteousness: come, and let us declare in Zion the work of the LORD our God.

Who can oppose Him? For He does what He wills!

TGBTG!

Good Post, I say amen to the points !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Prov 16:4

Prov 16:4

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

The Wicked God made for His Own Glory, that He might make known the Attribute of Justice among men. Yes God is a Gracious and Loving God, and this too He purposed to make known, but God's Nature is not only Love, but its also Holiness, Justice, wherein He must punish sin and iniquity. God did reveal this totality of His Nature here to Moses Ex 34:6-8

6 And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

And so God Created People for both purposes of His Nature, a People for His Graciousness, mercifulness as Per Vs6-7a

And God Created a people for His Nature of 7b " The guilty, the Wicked of Prov 16:4 and this is for His Own Glory !566

 

[savedbygrace57]

Does man act freely and responsibly ?

Does man act freely and responsibly ? Yes, man does act freely and responsibly, but only in doing what God has predestinated for him to do, or what God has already purposed to be don by him. What about evil ? No God does not force man to do evil, to sin, but He determined that they do it freely, this principle of Truth is seen in the gathering together of them blameworthy of delivering His Son the Lord Jesus Christ over to be Crucified, as observed here Acts 4:26-28

26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

First lets look at Vs 26 at the words were gathered together against the Lord. The words gathered together in the greek.

The word gathered is the word συνάγω and it means to:


I gather together, collect, assemble, receive with hospitality, entertain.

And its in the passive voice, meaning they were all assembled together or brought together, they were recipients of the action. Now who do we suppose brought them together ? It was God's Sovereign Purpose ! They did not know it, but it was True, all their actions and decisions that brought about the arrest, trail and crucifixion of Christ had been determined by God for them to do Vs 28, and yet they acted freely and not forced.

Yes they only did, freely, what God's Sovereign Hand had already predestined to take place.

Remember when the people were given a choice as to what criminal could be set free, and they did not choose Jesus, but one who was murderer ? Lets read Matt 27:15-23

15 Now at that feast the governor was wont to release unto the people a prisoner, whom they would.

16 And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas.

17 Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus which is called Christ?

18 For he knew that for envy they had delivered him.

19 When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.

20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.

21 The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas.

22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.

23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.

Now I understand that their choice to free barabbas was somewhat influenced by by the chief priests and elders Vs 20, nevertheless they were merely persuaded not forced into their rational choice ! In other words after being persuaded they still acted freely and responsibly !

Now why were they persuaded to set free the murderer over against Christ the Person who went around doing so much good ? Acts 10:38

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Because in the predetrmined purpose of God, Christ's hour had now arrived for Him to be Crucified. Remember Lukes Gospel Lk 22:22

22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

Before this hour the forces of darkness could not kill Him. Jn 7:30

Then they sought to take him: but no man laid hands on him, because his hour was not yet come.

 

[Messenger]

Re: Does man act freely and responsibly ?

Does man act freely and responsibly ? Does man act freely and responsibly ? Yes, man does act freely and responsibly, but only in doing what God has predestinated for him to do, or what God has already purposed to be don by him. What about evil ? No God does not force man to do evil, to sin, but He determined that they do it freely, this principle of Truth is seen in the gathering together of them blameworthy of delivering His Son the Lord Jesus Christ over to be Crucified, as observed here Acts 4:26-28 26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. First lets look at Vs 26 at the words were gathered together against the Lord. The words gathered together in the greek. The word gathered is the word συνάγω and it means to: I gather together, collect, assemble, receive with hospitality, entertain. And its in the passive voice, meaning they were all assembled together or brought together, they were recipients of the action. Now who do we suppose brought them together ? It was God's Sovereign Purpose ! They did not know it, but it was True, all their actions and decisions that brought about the arrest, trail and crucifixion of Christ had been determined by God for them to do Vs 28, and yet they acted freely and not forced. Yes they only did, freely, what God's Sovereign Hand had already predestined to take place.

With regard to Acts 4:25

Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage,
and the people imagine vain things?
(Psalm 2:1)

It would appear that when those who were gathered together against Jesus (in verses 26 and 27),
that the "vain thing" they imagined is believing that it was under their power to put Him to death.
So, by fulfilling their own prideful lusts, God's Sovereign predetermined purpose was
brought to fruition.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Re: Freewill religion is the Man of Sin ! - Part 2

messenger

It would appear that when those who were gathered together against Jesus (in
verses 26 and 27),
that the "vain thing" they imagined is believing
that it was under their power to put Him to death.

Interesting thought.

So, by fulfilling their own prideful lusts, God's Sovereign
predetermined purpose was
brought to fruition.

Of a Truth !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Does man act freely and responsibly ? Cont

You see the peoples choice [to release the murderer instead of Jesus] was actually in agreement with what God had already determined to be done or with what was then happening, for thats Peters point in Acts 4:27

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

Thats talking about that choice they made between barabbas and the Lord Jesus Christ; For they acted freely and responsibly in choosing whom should be set free by that custom, yes they had been influenced by the chief priests and elders, but they did not force them against their will, but persuaded them to be willing to ask for the release of the murderer over the Lord Jesus.

The whole point being made is this, though man does act freely and with accountability, he still acts only within the predetermined counsel of God Prov 19:21

21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Many plans are in a man's heart, but the LORD's decree will prevail.568

 

[About the Son of God]

Re: Does man act freely and responsibly ?

26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. First lets look at Vs 26 at the words were gathered together against the Lord. The words gathered together in the greek. The word gathered is the word συνάγω and it means to: I gather together, collect, assemble, receive with hospitality,

Acts 4:26 παρεστησαν οι βασιλεις της γης και οι αρχοντες συν-ηχ-θησαν επι το αυτο κατα του κυριου και κατα του χριστου αυτου

But it would only mean "I" gather with the omega ending; as I think you know; So the focus isn't on any "I" doing the "gathering".

Consider part of the root word: eg: "goge" (as in syn-a-goge) -- which means "lead" together rather than "gathered".
Compare the word to another with the same root: ped-a-gog-ical, which means to "lead" along a path on foot (hence to teach little kids to "walk").

So, it's the verb form of "syn-agoge" but in the passive voice -- a place where people are "led" together.

And its in the passive voice, meaning they were all assembled together or brought together, they were recipients of the action.

Yes. They were the recipients of the "leading"; or if you will, they accepted the leadership of someone.

Now who do we suppose brought them together ?

Clearly an earthly leader did. This is generally the case when nations make alliances. The part of the Greek I underlined means they did it themselves. ( auto=self ).

Pilate was "friends" with Herod after the event, but not before... so, these two were in on the plot; as was Caiphas.

It was God's Sovereign Purpose ! They did not know it, but it was True, all their actions and decisions that brought about the arrest, trail and crucifixion of Christ had been determined by God for them to do Vs 28, and yet they acted freely and not forced. Yes they only did, freely, what God's Sovereign Hand had already predestined to take place.

hmmm....? That's ascribing more to dictation than leadership.

Acts 3:26 is *explicitly* quoting Psalm 2:1-3

So: Yes, it is a prophecy -- but one of a cyclic nature *and* with a free-will exit.

Psalm 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Psalm 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

Hence, if Acts 4:26 was strictly talking about predestination then the prophecy also ends with a command "be wise" and "serve the Lord" -- rather than "kill him."

Carefully note: God sets the "boundaries" of the action, but does not micromanage the acts of the individuals themselves.
For example, God himself does not lie -- nor does he invent lies -- yet he will tell the truth to a liar in order that they may prevail in lying.

1King 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
1King 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
1King 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
1King 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Consider it again:: Paul says: The Law is good ... but sin used the law to kill.

Just so:
The evil spirit freely chose to tell the lie, and the particular spirit who acted did so because God told it that it would succeed.
Yet, the LORD himself did not tell the lie to the spirit; that was the spirit's own creation (which God had no part in);

The action of the Spirit, however, is consistent with the devil -- for it's purpose is to murder Ahaz. John 8:44

 

[savedbygrace57]

Believing is a Work !2

Faith or believing is a work because its an act or action of the heart and mind Rom 10:9-10

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Also its[Faith or believing] emotional as well as practical !

Work is defined as:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

 

[About the Son of God]

Re: Freewill religion is the Man of Sin ! - Part 2

Yes. Anything one "does" is a work.

Therefore, if one "believes" -- they have done a "work" ( but scripturally singular, not plural ).

John 6:29.

It is faith (singular) and not works (plural/of the law) which saves.

Eternal life is founded on a relationship with the Lord.
Jesus himself says "I am the resurrection". So, apart from him there is no resurrection.

Therefore, there is one identifiable step which must be completed before one can have eternal life; One must be introduced to the Lord, and know him as Lord. This is something which can not be forced, for only Jesus himself can actually reveal himself to someone. No one can force his hand, and choose the time. We may call, we may pray, we may teach, but only because the Lord allows us; but ultimately the Lord decides his own day of meeting for each of us.

Matthew 28:19. John 6:44-45. Matthew 16:17.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Re: Freewill religion is the Man of Sin ! - Part 2

absog

Therefore, there is one identifiable step which must be completed before
one can have eternal life

That's works Salvation. Christ gives Eternal Life to as many as the Father gave Him, they did not make any steps. Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

No steps required, Christ has completed all the required steps for them, to give them Life Eternal !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Yes Jesus saves unbelievers !

Many in false religion make the unfounded claim that God nor the Lord Jesus Christ does not save unbelievers, which is ridiculous, for if that was the case, then no one would ever become a Believer ! One has to saved before they can believe ! Jesus came to save sinners, unbelievers, this does scripture testify to. 1 Tim 1:13-15

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Paul was saved from unbelief as much as he was saved from being a blasphemer, a persecutor, and injurious, for those sins were fueled by the sin of unbelief !

Paul says in 1 Tim 1:15 that Christ came to save sinners and not believing sinners, and He saves them not for or because of Faith or believing, but unto Faith or Believing !

This is True because one cannot believe unless they are already saved. Thats right, a lost person cannot believe, because while being in a lost condition we cannot believe the Gospel because in a lost condition satan has us blinded in the mind.2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The word lost in Vs 3 is in the present tense, meaning they are being in a lost condition continually, and so all the while we are in that state, our minds are blinded to the Gospel, and hence as a result we believe not !

We are actually imprisoned to unbelief while in a lost condition Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all[jew and Gentile] in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

God hath concluded all in unbelief. What does concluded mean ? Its the greek word sygkleiō and means:


to shut up together, enclose

a) of a shoal of fishes in a net

2) to shut up on all sides, shut up completely


By nature in a lost state we are confined into unbelief, we are enclosed into a sphere of unbelief, shut up completely ! Restricted !


So if and when one does believe the Glorious Gospel, it serves as an evidence of having been delivered from the sphere of lostness and unbelief, and being in a saved state.

Now if we say we believed to get saved, we are actually saying that we first saved ourselves out of a lost state, then we believed the Gospel !

So Yes, Jesus saves unbelievers or else, there could never be believers, for we cannot believe in a lost state, which we all are by Nature, to God be the Glory !570

 

[Messenger]

Re: Freewill religion is the Man of Sin ! - Part 2

Whole post is true to Scripture!

Yes Jesus saves unbelievers !

By nature in a lost state we are confined into unbelief, we are enclosed into a sphere of unbelief, shut up completely ! Restricted !

So if and when one does believe the Glorious Gospel, it serves as an evidence of having been delivered from the sphere of lostness and unbelief, and being in a saved state.

Now if we say we believed to get saved, we are actually saying that we first saved ourselves out of a lost state, then we believed the Gospel !

So Yes, Jesus saves unbelievers or else, there could never be believers, for we cannot believe in a lost state, which we all are by Nature, to God be the Glory !

Clearly and concisely explained. (Psalm 10:17) TGBTG!

 

[Elijah674]

Re: Freewill religion is the Man of Sin ! - Part 2

Yes. Anything one "does" is a work.

Therefore, if one "believes" -- they have done a "work" ( but scripturally singular, not plural ).

John 6:29.

It is faith (singular) and not works (plural/of the law) which saves.

Eternal life is founded on a relationship with the Lord.
Jesus himself says "I am the resurrection". So, apart from him there is no resurrection.

Therefore, there is one identifiable step which must be completed before one can have eternal life; One must be introduced to the Lord, and know him as Lord. This is something which can not be forced, for only Jesus himself can actually reveal himself to someone. No one can force his hand, and choose the time. We may call, we may pray, we may teach, but only because the Lord allows us; but ultimately the Lord decides his own day of meeting for each of us.

Matthew 28:19. John 6:44-45. Matthew 16:17.

Very well stated! It agrees with Heb. 6:1-6 & 2 Peter 2:19-22

Heb. 6:3-6
[3] And this will we do, if God permit. (this is included because it might not be possible?)

[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and [[put him to an open shame]].

(and again, an added verse with a promise of liberty!)

[19] While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
[20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[21] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[22] But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

And how do these ones crucify Christ again? By the promise of liberty to open sinners, in other words Heb. 11:1-3 & ibid 13 are not judged as of yet until there are dead!

--Elijah