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Gentile’s kept the Seventh Day Sabbath

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for_his_glory said:
I have pretty much given all I can to this thread. Considering that you are on the computer and not sitting back relaxing I guess you are not keeping this sabbath Saturday holy in remembrance of God and His day of rest. Even electronics in this day and age, including if you use your phone, would be coming against what you call a command of God and I really doubt that you or your wife cooked all three of your meals you are eating today.

So, for now I am leaving this thread unless I need to come back in. You have a blessed sabbath day.
Click to expand...
 
for_his_glory said:
I have pretty much given all I can to this thread. Considering that you are on the computer and not sitting back relaxing I guess you are not keeping this sabbath Saturday holy in remembrance of God and His day of rest. Even electronics in this day and age, including if you use your phone, would be coming against what you call a command of God and I really doubt that you or your wife cooked all three of your meals you are eating today.

So, for now I am leaving this thread unless I need to come back in. You have a blessed sabbath day.
Click to expand...
It is not a violation of the Sabbath for me to minister on the Sabbath. Did you know it is a sin to bring false accusations against a person.
 
Mungo said:
Jesus didn't say keep the Ten Commandments. He just said commandments.

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
(Mk 10:17-19 - KJV)

Defraud not is not one of the Ten Commandments. It comes from Lev 19::13.
13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning. (KJV)
Click to expand...
Which commandments do you think Christ was speaking of?
Matt 19
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired. Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony,
19 honor your father and mother,’ and love your neighbor as yourself.”
 
Mungo said:
A false distinction. God delivered laws through Moses.
Moses didn't invent Laws. God gave them to the Israeletes though Moses.
Click to expand...
God wrote His Ten Commandments on stone.
 
 
Mungo said:
Jesus didn't say keep the Ten Commandments. He just said commandments.

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
(Mk 10:17-19 - KJV)

Defraud not is not one of the Ten Commandments. It comes from Lev 19::13.
13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning. (KJV)
Click to expand...

What do you call a person who constantly says foolish things?
John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
 
CherubRam said:
are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Click to expand...

His commandments, the ine written on our heart and mind, under the New Covenant are all about love: Loving God and living one another.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3

Again I am referring to the law of Christ, and His commandments, not the law of Moses.

Jesus Christ the LORD is the Mediator of the New Covenant.

If you believe Jesus through His Apostles commanded us to keep the Sabbath, then please provide scripture as to how a born again Christian not living in the land of Israel, is to specifically observe the weekly seventh day sabbath.


When does the Sabbath begin, and end at what time?

Do we observe this specific time according to Israel time or our current time?


Please begin with answering these questions.

If you refuse to answer these important questions that pertain to the Sabbath, then no one will take you seriously.




JLB
 
CherubRam

Posting lots of scripture might look impressive but you seem to take no notice of the context or addressees.

Some points to consider.

1. There are different categories of laws - moral, ceremonial, societal, and whether they apply to a particular person depends on the category and addressee.

2. I believe that there is an eternal moral law that mankind can know and is subject to. These are moral imperatives that are applicable to all peoples in all places throughout all time. These laws are written on our hearts and made known to us by our consciences (see Rom 1:19 & 2:14-15).

A good example of this is the murder of another human being. This was wrong from the beginning. We know this because God condemned Cain for murdering Abel, and Cain knew he had done wrong. (Gen 4:8-12)

God specifically told Noah If anyone sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; For in the image of God has man been made. (Gen 9:6).

God specifically put this law into the covenant law that he gave to the Israelites on Sinai (Ex 20:13). When that law was abrogated this did not make murder OK, the eternal moral law remains. Moreover we can find this command re-iterated in the New Covenant that is applicable to Christians. (e.g. Mt 15:19, 1Tim 1:9, 1Jn 3:15).

It not so much that murder is wrong because it is in the Ten Commandments, but that it is in the Ten Commandments because it is wrong.

Every countries legal code has a law against murder. But a countries legal code is only applicable to those under its jurisdiction. Similarly the legal code that is the Ten Commandments was only applicable to those under its jurisdiction – namely Jews or those living under their land (their jurisdiction).

3. Sabbath keeping is a ceremonial law given to the Israelites; an important one because it is the sign of the their Covenant. But is was only applicable to those living under that covenant, or those gentiles living with them.

4. An understanding of Covenants is very important. From the very beginning God has dealt with mankind with a series of covenants - even with Adam (Hosea 6:7).
The Sinai (Mosaic) Covenant was a temporary covenant. I has been superseded by the New Covenant.
When he speaks of a “new” covenant, he declares the first one obsolete. And what has become obsolete and has grown old is close to disappearing (Heb 8:13)

He takes away the first to establish the second (Heb 10:9)

5. Apart from the eternal moral laws, the laws for one covenant do not apply to another one (thought they may have similar laws). You need to understand which Covenant belong to in order to know which laws apply to you.

6. Yes, gentiles living in Israel, or among the Israelites, were subject to their laws (such as sabbath keeping) but not those outside of their land.

I am a UK citizen and UK laws apply to me. But if I travels to the USA then USA laws apply to me as long as I am staying in the US. Similarly I live under the New Covenant and not the Old Covenant. The old Covenant laws do not apply to me.
 
CherubRam

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.


​
 
You can keep the law if you want remember the commandments of the mosaic law are directed to Jews and we are christians keep thy two commandments. But we can keep thy 10 commandments and the mitzvah laws 613 also because God said it in a command.


If you love Jesus , Jesus said "
“If you love me, keep my commands. "

John 14:15

Love God you will keep all of his commandments and Jesus was saying the one's before and all of his comadnments says bible is what he told Israel, the prophets to say to us, and psalms. They are all his commands becuase what comes out of his voice from his mouth are commands. Love him you will keep those laws not by force of law of death from the law of moses but love that you want to obey him and fulfill his orders he gave as commands.
 
grumix8 said:
You can keep the law if you want remember the commandments of the mosaic law are directed to Jews and we are christians keep thy two commandments. But we can keep thy 10 commandments and the mitzvah laws 613 also because God said it in a command.


If you love Jesus , Jesus said "
“If you love me, keep my commands. "

John 14:15

Love God you will keep all of his commandments and Jesus was saying the one's before and all of his comadnments says bible is what he told Israel, the prophets to say to us, and psalms. They are all his commands becuase what comes out of his voice from his mouth are commands. Love him you will keep those laws not by force of law of death from the law of moses but love that you want to obey him and fulfill his orders he gave as commands.
Click to expand...
It makes no sense to suggest that any command that Jesus made to anyone or any group applies to everyone in the world.

Paul himself declares he is no longer under the Law.
To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law--though not being myself under the law--that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law [Gentiles] I became as one outside the law--not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ--that I might win those outside the law. (1Cor 9:20-21)

He also makes here a clear distinction between those under the Law (the Jews) and those not under the Law (the Gentiles)

Galatians 3:
Before faith came, we [Jews] were held in custody under law, confined for the faith that was to be revealed. Consequently, the law was our disciplinarian for Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a disciplinarian. (Gal 3:23-25).
We (Jews) are not under the Law

Paul describes the Jews and Gentiles as separated but then he says:
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, (Eph 2:13-15)
The Law has been abolished.

Col 2 says much the same:
And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, having cancelled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross. (Col 2:14)

The Book of Hebrews makes this replacement of the Old Covenant and it's laws by the New Covenant very clear.
On the one hand, a former commandment is annulled because of its weakness and uselessness, for the law brought nothing to perfection; on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. (Heb 7:18-19)

When there is a change of priesthood, there is necessarily a change of law as well. (Heb 7:12)

For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second one. But he finds fault with them and says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will conclude a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. (Heb 8:7-8)

When he speaks of a “new” covenant, he declares the first one obsolete. And what has become obsolete and has grown old is close to disappearing (Heb 8:13)

He takes away the first to establish the second (Heb 10:9)
 
grumix8 said:
But we can keep thy 10 commandments and the mitzvah laws 613 also because God said it in a command.
Click to expand...
To keep all the 613 Mosaic Laws would put Christ to shame as we are no longer under a school teacher, but under the new covenant of God's grace through faith that is Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

(Read all of Galatians Chapter 3)

Go back and read my post #91 as many of the 613 laws were laws of the Temple, rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Not all 613 laws were given by God on Mt Sinai, as man added to them to justify themselves.
 
People the laws of moses is applied to Jews and we don't have to keep them. God says in

Isaiah 55:11​

So shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

His words that come out of his mouth are commands and laws. Ask yourself what commands are directed to us and which are directed to gentiles. God used Daniel and part of his book in Daniel is written in hebrew and parts of it is in babylon so they know what he was threatinning them about their worshipping of false idols.

God told prophets to do something and some things we cna do like them, some things God told kings and for us to do while we are under their kingdom, and psalms tell us to do and do his word and his command. The command he gives is law and he says words that he told Israel are laws and even though time has passed jesus what he says is law.

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These encouraging Bible verses about the Word of God will help you understand its power and importance.
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Job 23:12

I have not departed from his commands, but have treasured his words more than daily food.

Hearing God and Obeying His Voice - God.net

Hearing God and Obeying His Voice Jesus says “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.” Recognizing God’s voice and obeying Him is critical for a good relationship with God. For as many as are led ... Read More
god.net god.net

God will judge who goes to heaven not us if one does keep thy sabbath or does not it is by Jesus blood we are saved. Baptized yourself is what you must look you can keep all the laws but mean nothing if you don't love God with all your heart.
 
grumix8 said:
People the laws of moses is applied to Jews and we don't have to keep them.
Click to expand...
The only ones all of us are to keep are the moral laws that are wrapped up in the greatest commandment of love in how we treat others as we would want others to treat us.
 
grumix8 said:
People the laws of moses is applied to Jews and we don't have to keep them. God says in

Isaiah 55:11​

So shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

His words that come out of his mouth are commands and laws. Ask yourself what commands are directed to us and which are directed to gentiles. God used Daniel and part of his book in Daniel is written in hebrew and parts of it is in babylon so they know what he was threatinning them about their worshipping of false idols.

God told prophets to do something and some things we cna do like them, some things God told kings and for us to do while we are under their kingdom, and psalms tell us to do and do his word and his command. The command he gives is law and he says words that he told Israel are laws and even though time has passed jesus what he says is law.


Job 23:12

I have not departed from his commands, but have treasured his words more than daily food.

Hearing God and Obeying His Voice - God.net

Hearing God and Obeying His Voice Jesus says “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.” Recognizing God’s voice and obeying Him is critical for a good relationship with God. For as many as are led ... Read More
god.net god.net

God will judge who goes to heaven not us if one does keep thy sabbath or does not it is by Jesus blood we are saved. Baptized yourself is what you must look you can keep all the laws but mean nothing if you don't love God with all your heart.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your perspective on applying the laws of Moses and how they relate to different groups of people. It's a thoughtful way to approach the Bible, considering the context and audience of specific commandments. Understanding which commands are directed to us and which are directed to different groups is important for interpreting and applying God's word in our lives. Thank you for sharing your insights.
 
CherubRam said:
Gentile’s kept the Seventh Day Sabbath





Pisidian Antioch in the Roman Empire
Acts 13
13 From Paphos, Paul and his companions sailed to Perga in Pamphylia, where John left them to return to Jerusalem. 14 From Perga they went on to Pisidian Antioch. On the Sabbath they entered the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the leaders of the synagogue sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have a word of exhortation for the people, please speak.”16 Standing up, Paul motioned with his hand and said: “Fellow Israelites and you Gentiles who worship God, listen to me!
Click to expand...

No where in this verse does it say Gentiles kept the Sabbath.


Please explain from the scripture‘s where Jesus or His apostles instructed the the Church as to how to observe the Sabbath.


How do you yourself believe the Church is to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant?

Going to a Jewish synagogue and teaching unbelieving Jewish about Jesus Christ is certainly not keeping the Sabbath.

Paul used that day when Jews were gathered together in a Synagogue to teach them about Jesus Christ.




JLB
 
JLB said:
No where in this verse does it say Gentiles kept the Sabbath.


Please explain from the scripture‘s where Jesus or His apostles instructed the the Church as to how to observe the Sabbath.


How do you yourself believe the Church is to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant?

Going to a Jewish synagogue and teaching unbelieving Jewish about Jesus Christ is certainly not keeping the Sabbath.

Paul used that day when Jews were gathered together in a Synagogue to teach them about Jesus Christ.




JLB
Click to expand...
Matthew 12:8
For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.

Gentile’s kept the Seventh Day Sabbath

Pisidian Antioch in the Roman Empire
Acts 13
13 From Paphos, Paul and his companions sailed to Perga in Pamphylia, where John left them to return to Jerusalem. 14 From Perga they went on to Pisidian Antioch. On the Sabbath they entered the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the leaders of the synagogue sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have a word of exhortation for the people, please speak.”16 Standing up, Paul motioned with his hand and said: “Fellow Israelites and you Gentiles who worship God, listen to me!

44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. 45 When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy. They began to contradict what Paul was saying and heaped abuse on him.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

The first Gentile converts kept the Sabbath, and so therefore it was not an issue.

There is also this in regards to the Sabbath commandment.
Romans 13:9
The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Exodus 20:8
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
 
CherubRam said:
Matthew 12:8
For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.

Gentile’s kept the Seventh Day Sabbath

Pisidian Antioch in the Roman Empire
Acts 13
13 From Paphos, Paul and his companions sailed to Perga in Pamphylia, where John left them to return to Jerusalem. 14 From Perga they went on to Pisidian Antioch. On the Sabbath they entered the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the leaders of the synagogue sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have a word of exhortation for the people, please speak.”16 Standing up, Paul motioned with his hand and said: “Fellow Israelites and you Gentiles who worship God, listen to me!

44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. 45 When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy. They began to contradict what Paul was saying and heaped abuse on him.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

The first Gentile converts kept the Sabbath, and so therefore it was not an issue.

There is also this in regards to the Sabbath commandment.
Romans 13:9
The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Exodus 20:8
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
Click to expand...

So far no commands or instructions from Jesus or His Apostles as to how the Church is supposed to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant.

Are you saying that followers of Jesus Christ are supposed to attend a Jewish Synagogue on the Sabbath?

Please explain how you believe Christians are to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant.
 
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