Holy Communion stuff

[Bob Carabbio]

"But why is it generally small"

Logistics, and Economics.

Simple as that.

 

[reba]

Deu 21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

 

[Gazelle]

I would suggest that the servings are small for convenience and cost. It is symbolic, so why use anything larger? While the original "Lord's Supper" was at an actual meal, seemingly after they had eaten, and the portions were probably larger, with full wine glasses... we don't need to be doing that. Plus, we are cautioned to not have so much as to make it a meal, that if we're hungry to forgo taking of this communion....

The Spirit of the symbology is what's important.

However, I have seen deaconesses standing in the kitchen wolfing down the left over bread at times. I wasn't too concerned because that church didn't use unleavened bread anyway, so they missed the point in the first place. ;) My POV.

 

[handy]

However, I have seen deaconesses standing in the kitchen wolfing down the left over bread at times.

One thing to keep in mind is that once the elements of the sacrament are consecrated and blessed, they cannot be disposed of. The bread and wine or grape juice either must be consumed or buried directly into the ground. It certainly cannot be just thrown out.

As for the bread...I've been in churches where they use bread leavened with soda as opposed to yeast. Yeast dies during the baking causing "death" in the bread, soda doesn't do this so is therefore acceptable for communion bread. It is much better than the unleavened wafer or cracker that many churches use. However, unleavened seems to be more in keeping with communion.

Some churches serve communion via common cup...our church provides a choice, one may take a little glass of the wine, or sip from the common cup. The cup is made of metal and is wiped after each sip so there's no sanitation problems. I generally will drink from the cup unless I'm sick myself. I prefer to drink from the cup basically because one gets a bit more wine and it does a better job at washing down the unleavened bread than the tiny sip.

Our church videotapes all the services and the service is shown live on a screen in the fellowship hall in case someone has a fussy baby or takes ill during the service. Anyway, as long as the camera is rolling, one can see everything taking place in the front of the sanctuary.

One day, after the service I was in the fellowship hall and I saw that more than a few people were being quite amused by something taking place in the sanctuary. So, I go over for a look as there is my son...my darling baby boy...who was acolyting that day.

For those who might not be aware, an acolyte is a helper, usually a younger man or boy who lights the candles, makes sure the pastor has a bulletin and hymnal, and does minor chores...one of which is to clean up the area after communion is served. My son had signed up for acolyting and this was one of the first times he was on his own.

My son was cleaning up all right. He was downing the wine left in the common cup, and going through and making sure all the wine in the little cups was consumed...then he moved on and checked all the cups that people had actually used and made sure they were good and empty as well. :o

Everyone was commenting on what a conscientious acolyte he was.

Fortunately, there is never really all that much wine left, so there was no problem with him getting overdosed on alcohol. But, it was explained to him that generally the unused elements are taken into the kitchen and the deacons or deaconesses consume it there and also that the very tiny little drop that might be left on the bottom of a cup really need not be worried about. He was just doing what he thought was correct, because it had been explained to him to not throw the wine or bread away, that it needed to be consumed.

 

[Gazelle]

Well, I see no difference in the spirit of it between gorging it down by two in the kitchen or taking it home or sharing it among the church members etc. I suppose that is one reason for using boxed wafers?

As for the other, any leavening in the bread is counter to what the symbology is supposed to be... for leaven represents sin. We use unleavened bread to signify Christ, sinless.

I do not wish to discuss any issues about the imbibing of the "left over" wine...but I did live down the road from a large center/ home for alcoholic "ministers" for a while.

 

[stovebolts]

One thing to keep in mind is that once the elements of the sacrament are consecrated and blessed, they cannot be disposed of. The bread and wine or grape juice either must be consumed or buried directly into the ground. It certainly cannot be just thrown out.

As for the bread...I've been in churches where they use bread leavened with soda as opposed to yeast. Yeast dies during the baking causing "death" in the bread, soda doesn't do this so is therefore acceptable for communion bread. It is much better than the unleavened wafer or cracker that many churches use. However, unleavened seems to be more in keeping with communion.

Some churches serve communion via common cup...our church provides a choice, one may take a little glass of the wine, or sip from the common cup. The cup is made of metal and is wiped after each sip so there's no sanitation problems. I generally will drink from the cup unless I'm sick myself. I prefer to drink from the cup basically because one gets a bit more wine and it does a better job at washing down the unleavened bread than the tiny sip.

Our church videotapes all the services and the service is shown live on a screen in the fellowship hall in case someone has a fussy baby or takes ill during the service. Anyway, as long as the camera is rolling, one can see everything taking place in the front of the sanctuary.

One day, after the service I was in the fellowship hall and I saw that more than a few people were being quite amused by something taking place in the sanctuary. So, I go over for a look as there is my son...my darling baby boy...who was acolyting that day.

For those who might not be aware, an acolyte is a helper, usually a younger man or boy who lights the candles, makes sure the pastor has a bulletin and hymnal, and does minor chores...one of which is to clean up the area after communion is served. My son had signed up for acolyting and this was one of the first times he was on his own.

My son was cleaning up all right. He was downing the wine left in the common cup, and going through and making sure all the wine in the little cups was consumed...then he moved on and checked all the cups that people had actually used and made sure they were good and empty as well. :o

Everyone was commenting on what a conscientious acolyte he was.

Fortunately, there is never really all that much wine left, so there was no problem with him getting overdosed on alcohol. But, it was explained to him that generally the unused elements are taken into the kitchen and the deacons or deaconesses consume it there and also that the very tiny little drop that might be left on the bottom of a cup really need not be worried about. He was just doing what he thought was correct, because it had been explained to him to not throw the wine or bread away, that it needed to be consumed.

That's funny Dora :toofunny

Anyway, I don't see why you wouldn't throw away, or save till next time what was left. Not trying to make you cringe... But I don't understand why an Orthodox priest has to lick up what was dropped either.

 

[handy]

That's funny Dora :toofunny

Anyway, I don't see why you wouldn't throw away, or save till next time what was left. Not trying to make you cringe... But I don't understand why an Orthodox priest has to lick up what was dropped either.

Yeah, we all got a kick out of it. To his credit, he was just as conscientious about doing the job when he knew that getting a pass on drinking some wine wasn't part of his duties.

Do Orthodox priests lick up what was dropped? Never heard that one before.

As for throwing it away...even in churches that view the elements as wholly symbolic...such as the Orthodox Presbyterian...throwing away what is supposed to represent the body and blood seems more than a bit distasteful. If the bread are wafers, it's an easy call, because they can just be put back in the box and if the wine is in the little cups, it can be decanted back into the original bottle for next time.

But, if the bread is of the loaf variety and broken into pieces and especially when the wine was served from common cup, having it eaten after the service seems to be the best way to deal with it. I see no reason why it couldn't be given to someone in the congregation if they want to take it home.

But, as for making me cringe...yeah, throwing it away would kind of. Even if it isn't the real body and blood of Christ, that was what it was prayed over to represent...shouldn't wind up in the trash.

In my church, we take what Christ said about "This is My body broken for you...This is My blood shed for you" quite literally, so it would be really out of line for us to throw it away.

 

[Mike]

In my church, we take what Christ said about "This is My body broken for you...This is My blood shed for you" quite literally, so it would be really out of line for us to throw it away.

And to this point, I think it would be nice if everyone would keep in mind that some of us DO believe it's more than a symbol; a wafer and wine. This is not directed at anyone in particular, and it's not to say our opinion should be held in esteem. It's just to say that if someone's questioning why certain things are done with the elements, it's helpful to acknowledge that they aren't viewed as ordinary objects to some.

I was serving the common cup one day at church, and I had one guy come up in line and down the entire cup I was holding! I was half expecting him to pull out his wallet and ask for another! But, seriously I was thinking, What's that about? There's a long line behind you, buddy.

 

[Classik]

And to this point, I think it would be nice if everyone would keep in mind that some of us DO believe it's more than a symbol; a wafer and wine. This is not directed at anyone in particular, and it's not to say our opinion should be held in esteem. It's just to say that if someone's questioning why certain things are done with the elements, it's helpful to acknowledge that they aren't viewed as ordinary objects to some.

I was serving the common cup one day at church, and I had one guy come up in line and down the entire cup I was holding! I was half expecting him to pull out his wallet and ask for another! But, seriously I was thinking, What's that about? There's a long line behind you, buddy.

He was starving or was hurrying for a midday game.

 

[handy]

Wow...he must have been pretty thirsty.

What did you do? Was there another cup handy that you could get or did you just have to tell the rest, "No blood for you today"...

But, yes, it's good to remember that there are various views as to what communion actually is...and that its important to consider those views when observing what others do with the elements...

...so, Stev...I mean Jeff... I shouldn't cringe after all, if I see someone toss the bread and wine into the trash, unless its at my own church. (It really would be cringe worthy there.)

 

[stovebolts]

lol, Yeah I know Dora and yes, we also believe that Christ is present as well. But probably more in a spiritual sense than a physical sense, although you can't separate the spiritual from the physical.

I do know that what isn't eaten or drank, certainly isn't tossed away. It gets shelved until next week. Hey, we're just frugal lol.

Anyway, I remember a time when a server dropped a whole tray of communion, he was sooo embarrassed. But yeah, the Orthodox priest would have had to lick it up, or in our case where it spilled all over the carpet, the priest would have had to cut the carpet out and burn it. That's a bit excessive IMHO.

 

[Gazelle]

Yes, some do consider it more than symbology and they believe the bread and wine become Christ in actuality. I"m staying away from that as it has it's roots in a religion we can't discuss in this forum, I think.

However, I would certainly do something in any church that has that issue... perhaps count the people ahead of time and only bless that amount. Anyone late, well, there's a penalty for being late and they won't be late again.