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Imagican
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Everyone speaks of Jesus as if there is ONLY ONE. Really? If someone talks of or teaches of a Jesus that is CONTRADICTORY to The Word, is this the SAME Jesus that IS the Son of God?
MEC
MEC
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Imagican said:Everyone speaks of Jesus as there is ONLY ONE. Really? If someone talks of or teaches of a Jesus that is CONTRADICTORY to The Word, is this the SAME Jesus that IS the Son of God?
MEC
Imagican said:Let's say that a church were to teach that Jesus WASN'T God. Would THAT Jesus be the TRUE Jesus, or would this Jesus be an 'immitation' of sorts? Some sort of 'other' Jesus?'
For you SEE that Satan has MANY disguises. Some of those, perhaps, even being that of Christ Himself. Of course, for Satan to accomplish this it would be a 'given' that his disguise be imperfect. As you have offered; the Word SHOULD be able to reveal the TRUE Christ from ANY substitute. BUT, what if what has been TAUGHT of the Word is done in a way that 'inserts' this imperfection as a TRAIT of the the True Jesus. And what if those that teach it insist that one MUST accept their teachings or be LOST? Placing those that are unlearned and being taught in a possition where they feel they MUST accept what they are taught or be an 'outcast' of sorts? Or through simple ignorance they accept what they are taught without even questioning it's validity?
MEC
And what if those that teach it insist that one MUST accept their teachings or be LOST? Placing those that are unlearned and being taught in a possition where they feel they MUST accept what they are taught or be an 'outcast' of sorts? Or through simple ignorance they accept what they are taught without even questioning it's validity?
quote by Imagican on Sat Nov 17, 2007:
Let's say that a church were to teach that Jesus WASN'T God. Would THAT Jesus be the TRUE Jesus, or would this Jesus be an 'immitation' of sorts? Some sort of 'other' Jesus?'
For you SEE that Satan has MANY disguises. Some of those, perhaps, even being that of Christ Himself. Of course, for Satan to accomplish this it would be a 'given' that his disguise be imperfect. As you have offered; the Word SHOULD be able to reveal the TRUE Christ from ANY substitute. BUT, what if what has been TAUGHT of the Word is done in a way that 'inserts' this imperfection as a TRAIT of the the True Jesus. And what if those that teach it insist that one MUST accept their teachings or be LOST? Placing those that are unlearned and being taught in a possition where they feel they MUST accept what they are taught or be an 'outcast' of sorts? Or through simple ignorance they accept what they are taught without even questioning it's validity?
MEC
quote by Imagican:
Unred, Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about, (sort of).
You seem to be honestly aware that there ARE 'false Christs' being taught and followed. Some would deny this and simply insist that ANYONE that uses the 'name' Christ was following the Son of God. How WRONG some of these 'truly' are. For there WILL come a time that MANY will say to Christ, "Look at ALL the WONDEROUS things that we have done IN YOUR NAME". And His reply to these: 'I don't even KNOW you'. So these MUST be 'pretending' to worship Christ by somehow having been misled into worshiping 'another' Christ.
What 'trait' could possibly be altered to change the 'true' Christ into 'someone else'? It MUST be something REALLY important. Something SO major that those that believe in it would INSIST that it MUST be believed in to 'be saved'. Otherwise there would only be a 'few' that would follow it. Yet we are told that there will be MANY that follow a 'false Christ'.
quote by Imagican:
Enjoyed the comments and appreciate the participation in a topic that 'I' believe to be of monumental importance.
If someone teaches a Jesus that is contradictory to what Holy Scripture states about him, then obviously he is not the same Jesus as in Scripture. It is clear that you are not even interested in the answer, so what is it that you are really after?Imagican said:Everyone speaks of Jesus as if there is ONLY ONE. Really? If someone talks of or teaches of a Jesus that is CONTRADICTORY to The Word, is this the SAME Jesus that IS the Son of God?
I wouldn't take such an argument to mean that one would believe in a different Jesus. As far as I can tell Jesus remained silent on such issues and those who argue one way or the other are adding to Christ but not necessarily in bad way. If Jesus is silent on an issue then our arguments need to come from somewhere else.wavy said:How far do you take genuine attempts to interpret Jesus?
What if some one believes he was against capital punishment, for example (as many do)? Or what if some one believes he was for capital punishment? Does one believe in a 'different' Jesus than the other?
The real Jesus is subservient to his Father, for he clearly distinguished himself from God. For example, when speaking to the Jews, he said: "What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality."(John 7:16,17) And the apostle Paul wrote of Jesus as having a Father, saying: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ....(and) that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:"(Eph 1:3,17; King James Bible)
Devekut said:"Ho Theos eyn Ho Logos" The God was the Word.
He is not subservient by nature
It does not say 'the God was the word'. Theos is without the article.
This statement only makes sense pre-incarnation. You do not 'send' an equal.
Imagican said:Everyone speaks of Jesus as if there is ONLY ONE. Really? If someone talks of or teaches of a Jesus that is CONTRADICTORY to The Word, is this the SAME Jesus that IS the Son of God?
MEC
Devekut said:nadab
The real Jesus is subservient to his Father, for he clearly distinguished himself from God. For example, when speaking to the Jews, he said: "What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality."(John 7:16,17) And the apostle Paul wrote of Jesus as having a Father, saying: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ....(and) that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:"(Eph 1:3,17; King James Bible)
The real Jesus is "God the Son"- the Son of God. There is a clear biblical testament to this fact. St. John writes "in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God" "Ho Theos eyn Ho Logos" The God was the Word.
Jesus, God the Son, through the Incarnation voluntarily takes upon himself a subservient role. He is not subservient by nature, but for the sake of drawing all things to the Father from which both the Holy Spirit and the Son eternally proceed, he, as St. Paul wrote in Philippians, "did not consider equality with God as something to be grasped but humbled himself and made himself unto a servant".
The Son of God, God himself, becomes the Christ in order to direct all to God in His fullness. This is why every Christian participates in the Trinitarian life. We participate in God's own inner life! The Father moves us towards the Son,indeed, He sends the Son! The Son reveals to us the image of the Father, the Holy Spirit seals in us this faith in the Trinitarian God.
Christ is "the Word of God". The Word of God can not be anything but God himself, for the "Word" is the direct expression of the essence of the Father. Just as our words express our will, our intention and the innermost parts of our being, so does Jesus express these things of God. Our words, in some sense, become an extension of us. Yet God is unqiue in that he does not recieve his language or words from a society, he is not taught how to express himself or how to speak. God's Word is unique to Him in that God's Word is formed fully and totally by Him alone. Nothing outside of Him forms how this Word is expressed, as in the human case where we are taught to speak. God's Word is His Own Essence, undefiled and perfectly made clear.