I have a question on the quran

[willow the wip]

why did mohammed have 12 wifes when the law in the quran say that only 4 wifes is alowed


I was told by some muslems

Mojahida: well .it needs lots of detail information... so i thought u gona benefit more by reading about it as i have no time to speak about it in dtail but i can tell u only one point in short that....
Mojahida: many things were made particular to prophet's and messengers before, either in rulings and/or miracles
Mojahida: Of all the Prophets and Messengers, five were distinguished most (Noah, Abraham. Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad, peace be upon them all
Mojahida: permitted for him more than 4 while limited it to 4 with the rest of the Muslims (Q4: 3), then this is from the Particularities that God gave him. Similarly,
Mojahida: there are certain rulings that are allowed for the general Muslims but not permitted for the Prophet). Like taking the charity.
Mojahida: And there is no doubt that there are great and noble wisdoms for such particularizations


any ideas.

 

[Gary]

Yes, the Quran limits a Muslim to 4 wives. Muhammad had his own rules and even "invented" those rules for himself in the Quran!

He had at least 12 wives and several concubines/slaves.

I will format something for you on one of my pages.

 

[Gary]

Here it is:

http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/muhammad/wives.htm

Also note that Muhammad had sex with his female slaves:
http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/mu ... slaves.htm

:o


:fadein:

 

[Nikki]

Does anyone know if Muhammed was really REAL?

I'm not trying to start a debate, I'm just wondering. I know NOTHING about the Quran or whatever they call it. I know nothing about the Muslim religion either.

This will probably start an argument of whether or not God is real, but I know God is real. I've heard him, I've felt his love and I have FAITH. That's all I need. :angel:

 

[Quath]

Does anyone know if Muhammed was really REAL?

It seems pretty well established in history that Mohammed was real. He led an army to take over Mecca. So that leaves a big enough footprint in history for easy verification.

Quath

 

[Gary]

Muhammad in history

Quath: It seems pretty well established in history that Mohammed was real. He led an army to take over Mecca. So that leaves a big enough footprint in history for easy verification.

Gary: Outside of Islamic traditions, prove your statements. It should be easy.... you claimed that.

 

[Quath]

Outside of Islamic traditions, prove your statements. It should be easy.... you claimed that.

So you mean you want proof of Mohammed's attack on Mecca without using any proof from people that lived the the area? What does that leave? Artifacts?

Do you doubt that Mohammed existed?

Quath

 

[Gary]

PROVE that Muhammad took over Mecca. You said it was easy. Do it. Where is your list of historians (who are NOT Muslims) who recorded these facts?

:-D :-D

 

[evanman]

The very statement that mohammed "Conquered" mecca proves that he believed in subjugating people rather than conversion!

 

[Quath]

PROVE that Muhammad took over Mecca. You said it was easy. Do it. Where is your list of historians (who are NOT Muslims) who recorded these facts?

I have no idea how many non-Muslims were in the area. My guess is it was little to none. I doubt it was like Rome where you had a diverse population.

I said it was easy to show Mohammed took over Mecca, I never said that it could be verified by historians that were not native to the area.

So I am curious. Do you have doubt that Mohammad existed or that he took over Mecca?

Quath

 

[Gary]

Muhammad in history

Quath: "He led an army to take over Mecca. So that leaves a big enough footprint in history for easy verification."

Gary: Prove it. YOU said it would be easy to verify. Then do it.

 

[Quath]

Muhammad in history

Quath: "He led an army to take over Mecca. So that leaves a big enough footprint in history for easy verification."

Gary: Prove it. YOU said it would be easy to verify. Then do it.

You have already pointed out that Islamic histories have information about this. Unless you are saying they don't. If so, I can get the names of the writings for you.

A quick search for Mohammed shows some artifacts like at http://www.moonsighting.com/prophet_artifacts.html or http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~history/religious.html.

Plus there are many tie ins with other people such as Abu-Sufyan who handed Mecca over to Mohammad. So when I talk about easy, I am saying that a coherent story is present that has a lot of history and supporting stories behind it.

My guess is you are trying to compare evidence of Jesus to evidence of Mohammed. But I think this does show the great differences. History flows around the story of Mohammed and does not show repetition from earlier stories and does not have historians in the area missing the events.

Quath

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

The very statement that mohammed "Conquered" mecca proves that he believed in subjugating people rather than conversion!

It's more that he was expelled for his religious beliefs and his threat to power, established an Islamic state in Medina, and returned with an army to Mecca which abdicated to Islamic rule. Though IIRC, they abdicated so they could take major positions of power within the Islamic government. One of Mohammed's rivals, his father in law, took a major position of power and his bloodline eventually took over rule of the region. No where near as bloody as your crusades.

 

[Gary]

Syntaxerror: "...No where near as bloody as your crusades.

Gary: The Fruits of Islam's Royal Family ...

Muhammad's Wealth http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/rf1_mhd_wealth.htm
The New King http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/rf2_newking.htm
Uthman's Murder http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/rf ... murder.htm
Ali and Aisha http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/rf4_ali_aisha.htm
Ali and Mu'awiya http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/rf ... uawiya.htm
Husayn and Yazid http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/rf ... husayn.htm
The Fruit of Islam Judged http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/rf ... judged.htm

and
THE CALIPHATE
ITS RISE, DECLINE, AND FALL
FROM ORIGINAL SOURCES
BY
WILLIAM MUIR, K.C.S.I.
LL.D., D.C.L., PH.D (BOLOGNA)
http://www.answering-islam.org/Books/Mu ... /index.htm

(First 900 years; history of "peaceful" Islam from 11 A.H. to 926 A.H.)

:o :o

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

Didn't say it was peaceful, did I gary, no I just said the conquest of mecca wasn't nearly as bloody as the sacking of jerusalem.

 

[Gary]

... the first 900 years of Islam is all about blood and murder and deceit. They followed Muhammad's example and his final instructions:
http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/ji ... tm#Sura9v1

Compare that to the first 200-300 years of Christianity.

 

[rhino4X4]

It's more that he was expelled for his religious beliefs and his threat to power, established an Islamic state in Medina, and returned with an army to Mecca

funny how he changed his tune as he gained followers and power, his start in Mecca has the 'peace' & 'humble' surahs, then came the 'war' surahs. First he likes jews & christians (People of the Book), then he hates them. forces all jews to convert or die in Arabia. Has all Christians kicked out too, on his deathbed.

which abdicated to Islamic rule. Though IIRC, they abdicated so they could take major positions of power within the Islamic government. One of Mohammed's rivals, his father in law, took a major position of power and his bloodline eventually took over rule of the region.

the whole idea of islam was to unite arabs, give them an arab god, conquer the world for that god, islam had the effect of enshrining 7th century arab customs, mores, lifestyle; why do you think converts have to change names, wear desert dress, learn arabic, etc...

No where near as bloody as your crusades.

guess who started them? as if muslims are so innocent, crusade=jihad, where do you think those christians got the idea? ask the Coptic christians what happened to Egypt? ask the Assyrians, Arameans & Chaldeans, what happened to Mesopotamia? ask the Berbers, Vandals what happened to N. Africa? ask the Hindus what happened in India? ask the Persians what happened in Iran?

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen." -Wittgenstein

Interesting quote,

"What one cannot speak of, about that point one must be quiet." -Wittgenstein

Thanks to: http://translation2.paralink.com/ for the translation ;-)