"I'm Christian, unless you're gay"

[Mike S]

They are the same person...

I would say that they're the same God, but, yes they are the same.

If you think threatening sinners with eternal lakes of fire is the way to bring people to Christ, go for it. I'll clean up after you.

 

[Hitch]

Fire and brimstone messages do more damage than good. The Old Testament message of God as wrathful avenger smiting hither and yon, is not as consistent with Christ's message as the New Testament message of God as loving and welcoming father of the prodigal son. As Christians, we're called to follow the example of that father.

Well yeah I cant recall anyone in the OT saying you should pluck out your own eye.

 

[Hitch]

It is not Hitch that used hateful words but Scripture in multiple places and Paul in his letter to the saints in Rome uses it.

It is Scripture that says, they are fools (Rom 1:22)
It is Scripture that says, they are without excuse (Rom 1:20).
It is Scripture that says, they will never inherit kingdom of God (1Cor 6:9)
It is Scripture that says, they are deserving of death (Rom 1:32)
It is Scripture that says, vengeance of eternal fire is upon them (Jude 1:7)
It is Scripture that says, not to pray for people who do sins leading to death (1John 5:16)
It is Scripture that says, God abhors them (Lev 20:23)

So, gays are fools without excuse who will never inherit Kingdom of God but deserving death and vengeance of eternal file is upon them for whom I need not pray and God abhors them.

Anyone having His Spirit will never love such a person because, God abhors them. If we do not abhor who God abhors, then His Spirit is not within us.



No you don't use hateful words.

Thanx Felix .

But I do not agree that the sodomites are wholly lost to a point beyond redemption , but I do believe so wrt to some individuals.

 

[Hitch]

Fire and brimstone messages do more damage than good. The Old Testament message of God as wrathful avenger smiting hither and yon, is not as consistent with Christ's message as the New Testament message of God as loving and welcoming father of the prodigal son. As Christians, we're called to follow the example of that father.

The observation from the words that I would now insist upon is this. -- "There is nothing that keeps wicked men at any one moment out of hell, but the mere pleasure of God." -- By the mere pleasure of God, I mean his sovereign pleasure, his arbitrary will, restrained by no obligation, hindered by no manner of difficulty, any more than if nothing else but God's mere will had in the least degree, or in any respect whatsoever, any hand in the preservation of wicked men one moment. --


From J Edwards.

 

[Pard]

Whatever. The gospel of the seeker churches is a lie and that's all I got to say about that*.

Sorry OP, I won't enable the derailment of your thread any longer.
:toofunny

*Not saying you are a "seeker" church-ie! Just wanted to get that out there in case that was the route we were headed.

My truth feeling is that A) we ought to go do this in another topic and B) you have some preconceived notion that differs to what I mean.

 

[Mike S]

Well yeah I cant recall anyone in the OT saying you should pluck out your own eye.

Yes, and you may have noticed that Jesus spoke frequently in metaphorical terms and used symbolism extensively in His teachings.

I'm not really a critic of Edwards. I live only a few miles from his old stomping groundsin in Enfield and East Windsor Connecticut, and am generally proud of our Christian history here. I just don't think fire and brimestime is the best way to spread the Gospel and bring people to Christ.

 

[reba]

Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

 

[Jman96]

WOW! Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. (Jude 1:24, 25 KJV) my church says that at the end of the sermon as a ending to the prayer! I just caught that.

Sorry off topic

 

[Hitch]

Yes, and you may have noticed that Jesus spoke frequently in metaphorical terms and used symbolism extensively in His teachings.

I'm not really a critic of Edwards. I live only a few miles from his old stomping groundsin in Enfield and East Windsor Connecticut, and am generally proud of our Christian history here. I just don't think fire and brimestime is the best way to spread the Gospel and bring people to Christ.

I dont believe the title in question was designed as an evangelical outreach, but I could be mistaken.

 

[felix]

Thanx Felix .

But I do not agree that the sodomites are wholly lost to a point beyond redemption , but I do believe so wrt to some individuals.

Neither do I.

(Ezek 33:11) "Say to them: '[As] I live,' says the Lord GOD, 'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'

God abhors the wicked but have no pleasure in their death.

 

[felix]

I just don't think fire and brimestime is the best way to spread the Gospel and bring people to Christ.

(Acts 24:24-25) ... he sent for Paul and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. Now as he reasoned about righteousness, self-control, and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and answered, "Go away for now; when I have a convenient time I will call for you."

If you exclude judgement from Gospel of Christ, then it is another gospel.

 

[Mike S]

I dont believe the title in question was designed as an evangelical outreach, but I could be mistaken.

Nor was it my point. You seem awfully eager to find confrontation.

 

[Hitch]

Nor was it my point. You seem awfully eager to find confrontation.

Hey you brought it up, by title, in bold.

 

[Mike S]

(Acts 24:24-25) ... he sent for Paul and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. Now as he reasoned about righteousness, self-control, and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and answered, "Go away for now; when I have a convenient time I will call for you."

If you exclude judgement from Gospel of Christ, then it is another gospel.

I didn't say to exclude judgement, did I? But perhaps you ought not to get such great joy out of empahisizing it. Perhaps you could pay more attention to the Christian call to humility, and Christ's admonition that the one without sin should cast the first stone. Is that sinless one you?

Christ then turned to the adulterous woman and instructed her to go and sin no more. That judgement and instruction is Christ's perogative - as the the son of God and only sinless man - not your perogative.

 

[Mike S]

Hey you brought it up, by title, in bold.

Did I call it an evangelical outreach, as you imply? No.

You seem to be grasping at straws to make a relevant argument...and failing.

 

[jasoncran]

I was responding to a comment about Saul, who did not repent in response to a phone call.

I'm glad you repented, and whether or not you return to that sin is your own call...though it's not uncommon for "ex-gays."

i have no desire, i hate that sin. and it was a bisexual nature that i had.

 

[Mike S]

i have no desire, i hate that sin. and it was a bisexual nature that i had.

I'm glad for you jason. I'm sure many can overcome their behaviors this way, but many can't, they struggle for a lifetime, and many fail. It's very common among men who think they can just put that compulsion behind them, that they fail, and some even become self-hating. I hope we can let them know we all struggle with sin.

 

[Mike]

Keep criticisms on the subject, everyone, not the person. Here is the line in the sand. Further personal insults by anyone will be deleted and subject to further discipline. This can be an emotional topic. If you feel you are unable to keep from getting too emotional, perhaps you should refrain from posting in this thread.

Thank you.

 

[Hitch]

Did I call it an evangelical outreach, as you imply? No.

You seem to be grasping at straws to make a relevant argument...and failing.

Well there is some reason you put it up and did so in an unusual manner. Would care to tell us why and what your point was?


I've been on a lot volunteer missions to help people rebuild after natural disasters, and have seen the damage eager evangelicals cause by quoting their proof scriptures and lecturing people about how not to go to hell. Your Christian life should be your message. People are brought to Christ through seduction, not through horror stories of lakes of fire. The coercive message of "Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God" is not the message of Christ.

 

[jasoncran]

I'm glad for you jason. I'm sure many can overcome their behaviors this way, but many can't, they struggle for a lifetime, and many fail. It's very common among men who think they can just put that compulsion behind them, that they fail, and some even become self-hating. I hope we can let them know we all struggle with sin.

im far more compassionate in person and well less then perfect.its by god's miraclous power the i just stopped and hadnt gone back.