I'm debating my faith because of the existence of hell if God was all seeing all powerful and all knowing why would he allow some people to never become Christians by that logic he knew they would go to hell but made them anyway and what about people who live in extreme poverty and never even hear about Christianity in their life do they also go to he'll forever this feels like a massive plot hole also im not looking to start a argument just a genuine question
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Important question
- Thread starter Bob47379
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Dorothy Mae
Member
That’s too broad. I only know bits and pieces and in general how He operates. I can give an example, if a man wants grace in his life, then if he will humble himself in the way the Holy Spirit is pressuring him to do, afterwards grace flows into him.
No, same as your cat cannot understand everything you do. But they generally sense when your depressed and rub you. They know the sounds of their food being made ready.
But we are made in his image unlike a pet we own and so have the ability to understand. However, He hides from the wise and intelligent. And that’s the rub.
We cannot understand all but surely this is not a problem. Have you ever met a professional in a deep science like physics who claims to know all there is to know in their subject and there’s nothing more to learn? In simpler terms, do two fairly intelligent married people claim they know everything there is to know about their spouse? Does this bother or intrigue them?
To badly quote F. Schaefer, we might only know partly, but we can know that we know truly. That is, I can have only a bit of understanding but still know that this bit is solidly true.
I think a good question is how do we come to understand God. What is our part in the endeavor?
Dorothy Mae
Member
Wondering,
You question gave me joy. I thought about it some more and I realized that having true understanding of God can take place in children. They, of course, won’t know much but what do know can be rock solid true. I find that incredibly exciting!
You question gave me joy. I thought about it some more and I realized that having true understanding of God can take place in children. They, of course, won’t know much but what do know can be rock solid true. I find that incredibly exciting!
Edward
2024 Supporter
I think this is on the right track. But how can an understanding of God take place in children where in an adult it could not?
Easy. Because it is an understanding of the heart. The children are willing to put their trust into something that they do not understand yet.
What rules a chids heart? I believe it's their spirit. But once they grow up some and are taught to be "intelligent" and stop listening to their heart as much. This robs them of their ability to have childlike faith. Which I think is an imaginatitive faith.
I think our imagination is in fact one of our senses?
Edward
2024 Supporter
I heard a lady give testimony of a visitation from Jesus with her, and at some point in their conversation, Jesus quipped with her that...her cat contemplates God better than she does. and, it doesn't really sound like Jesus was being facetious, and that made me wonder,
How could an animal contemplate God at all? Animals are not intelligent. They are instinctual. So maybe there's something to this.
Intelligence is knowledge in the mind. Wisdom is knowledge in the heart. When we know something in our mind, we are said to be intelligent. When we know something in our heart we are said to be wise. And scripture does say that all of creation praises the Lord, right?
When you know something in your heart it is an instinct to believe it. I know it in my heart...and animals have lots of instinct. So who's to say that they do not have much wisdom?! Maybe we are simply unable to speak each others language?
You ever see your cat staring off into space or into the sky? It's weird how they do that sometimes. How do you know that the cat isn't contemplating God?
Animals may not be very intelligent, but most of them demonstrate wisdom. I believe that Wisdom is spiritual and intelligence is carnal so it would be impossible to declare intelligently that, a cat can not contemplate God.
In the beginning, we had animals and nature. Before Librarys were animals. Before Iphones, before google, even before books, there was nature and animals. I think there is much wisdom (and intelligence!) to be gleaned from watching animals.
Of the Trinity, only the Father is all knowing. Before, Jesus created mankind, the Father wrote the "Book of Life" and sealed it with seven seals. In Rev. 4 and 5, Jesus is found worth to receive it in 1798 and thereafter begins to open it's seals. The book is called the "Lambs book of Life" in the rest of Rev., because Jesus now has possession of it. It is a life history of "all who would ever have life". At the end of the "Great White Throne Judgement", when Jesus opens the seventh seal, it will be seen as being identical to the book of deeds by which judgement of individuals was based.
The Father wrote the book to show to all of His creation that even through He is all knowing,He does not rule over His creation based on foreknowledge, but rather protects our right of free choice, and will never violate that privilege. Such is the great Love of God.
Exeter
Member
The Seven Sealed Scroll is not the Lamb's Book of Life.
(Rev 5:1) And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals.
(Rev 5:2) Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?"
(Rev 5:3) And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.
(Rev 5:4) So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it.
(Rev 5:5) But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."
| SEVEN SEALS | 1. Conquest |
| Lamb Opening | 2. Conflict |
| In Order | 3. Commodities |
| 4. Carnage | |
| Rev. 6 | 5. Complaint |
| 6. Catastrophe | |
| SEVEN TRUMPETS | 7. Clarion |
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
And HE said we would do greater things. I have seen people speak to and stop storms. And not just "Pentecostals" or "charis-maniacs" either. SDA evangelist John Carter has documented many instances of such occurrences.
On a summer job during college, I was working at an apartment complex. One day I ran the lawn mower over a nest of yellow jackets. The whole nest (at least 100) flew out to attack me. Without even thinking I ordered them back into their nest in the name of Jesus; and they flew back there. I found out later I am very allergic to yellow jacket stings, and have twice been hospitalized from just a single sting. I probably would have died had they all stung me.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Very encouraging!! I stopped a barking angry dog in the name of Jesus and prayed for a lame woman who got up and ran around pretty excited.
We are comforted by rod and staff. Not just the rod. Not just by the staff.
Behind the veil is the spirit of God. How many times do we allow ourselves to recognize the things Job saw. Job realized a lot before everything was over. He trusted.
Law in the flesh. Law in the mind. Well brother eddif you think you can just spiritualize everything. No eddif can not walk and chew gum at the same time. The parable of the sower is the physical world. The explanation by Jesus is the spiritual reality hidden from the multitude, but by conversation explained to the disciples.
eddif
Behind the veil is the spirit of God. How many times do we allow ourselves to recognize the things Job saw. Job realized a lot before everything was over. He trusted.
Law in the flesh. Law in the mind. Well brother eddif you think you can just spiritualize everything. No eddif can not walk and chew gum at the same time. The parable of the sower is the physical world. The explanation by Jesus is the spiritual reality hidden from the multitude, but by conversation explained to the disciples.
eddif
God made hell for the devil and his angels. If men reject God he will not force them to be with him. Men willfully reject God resulting in men taking their own path to hell. God made all of this and if you reject him but still want to play in his playground it won’t work.
Living beings are not robots.
God has always warned and warned upfront. And Jesus taught those who listen and learn from the Father come to Him.
They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.
Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear His voice, 8do not harden your hearts, as you did in the rebellion, in the day of testing in the wilderness,
If God asked you, "do you want to do evil" what is your answer?
He said: “Son of man, I am sending you to the Israelites, to a rebellious nation that has rebelled against me; they and their ancestors have been in revolt against me to this very day. 4The people to whom I am sending you are obstinate and stubborn. Say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says.’ 5And whether they listen or fail to listen—for they are a rebellious people—they will know that a prophet has been among them. 6And you, son of man, do not be afraid of them or their words. Do not be afraid, though briers and thorns are all around you and you live among scorpions. Do not be afraid of what they say or be terrified by them, though they are a rebellious people. 7You must speak my words to them, whether they listen or fail to listen, for they are rebellious. 8But you, son of man, listen to what I say to you. Do not rebel like that rebellious people; open your mouth and eat what I give you.”
“Living beings are not robots.
God has always warned and warned upfront. And Jesus taught those who listen and learn from the Father come to Him.”
I am starting sort out of time order. Jew and gentile have sinned.
1 Corinthians 12:2 kjv
2. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
While not a machine a human can live under another’s programming. Either good or bad leading.
Philippians 2:13 kjv
13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
A human can be directed by God.
1 Corinthians 15:45 kjv
45. And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
Revelation 3:20 kjv
20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
If we open the door the source can enter us.
Romans 8:10 kjv
10. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
The evil in us must die.
Philippians 1:21 kjv
21. For to me to live is Christ, and to die isgain.
So we are helped to approach the will of God.
Although sin is in the world, God had / has plans to help us.
A heart of flesh and law in our mind.
The concept of help to do (the will of God) is in many context areas.
2 Peter 1:3 kjv
3. According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
A rebellious people had power given on the day of Pentacost.
The gentile sinners apart from God received power in the house of Cornelius.
I like the upgrade of both groups, and the one new man made from Jew and gentile.
eddif
You know sometimes we are just too narrow minded. According to my mother in law; so my wife tells me.
If we had to spend a year in each major Christian group we might be a little better off.
I like the letters to the churches in Revelation. Good and bad is pointed out. Also, Job’s friends ar a good source of error and Job and God are sources of good answers.
eddif
Well let me see.
God loved the world and sent his son. God made the first move ?
You might as well PM me to straighten me out.
TULIP.
Not resisting grace? Is this what you are talking about?
Grace is offered and we are not to harden our hearts.
Sin is offered by satin and we are to resist.
Just tell it like it is, but don’t hurt peoples feelings if possible.
I repented as a Baptist
Read so much OT you would have thought I was a Jew
Received Jesus as a Presbyterial
Received the Holy Spirit drying off while reading the Bible after a bath .
Helped start a Charismatic church.
Attended a Methodist church
Who am I? A little of all?
I hearda Methodist Jew tell someone he wished I would make up my mind who I was.
I had a glorious talk with some one cup folks yesterday. I hope they thought glorious. LOL
Revelation just about gave street address when he spoke about the Churches of Asia.
Enough eddif
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Gods desire was evident. As was mans choices.
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.
"The owner's servants came to him and said, `Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
"`An enemy did this,' he replied.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Just call yourself a follower of Christ. “Christian” can mean “hypocrite” to some apparently, one who says the words but whose life says the opposite.
Why wear a label man invented?
Ephesians 6:12 kjv
12. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
As we speak of those led astray, are we able to speak of the unseen remnant. Am I supposed to reveal those people who God is protecting. Am I throwing pearls out where I should not?
He gathered those people once. Is he still gathering them today?
Am I so much in riddles that these words are unheard?
Mississippi redneck
eddif