Interesting read about 'Hyper Grace'...

[Jethro Bodine]

This article gives a good insight into what hyper-grace proponents believe...
http://www.fire-school.org/media/articles/hyper-grace-horror-stories/

Here's an excerpt:

Here are three major concerns (out of many more) that must be addressed:

1) Hyper-grace teachers (and their followers) denigrate those who differ with them, calling them legalistic Pharisees, branding them manipulators and tyrants who preach a counterfeit gospel, and sometimes even claiming that leaders who don’t preach hyper-grace are doing so for monetary gain (“sin management is lucrative;” there is an almost endless stream of quotes like this from respected hyper-grace leaders). This is destructive and divisive and needs to stop. (For the record, I use the term “hyper-grace” to be descriptive, not insulting, and some within the movement say, “Yes, we believe in hyper-grace!”)

2) In their zeal to exalt God’s grace, hyper-grace teachers often make extreme statements that lead believers to think that they are not responsible for their sins. After all, if we are always perfectly holy in God’s sight, we don’t really sin. Our bodies do! This is dangerous and unbiblical.

3) Hyper-grace teachers commonly claim that the words of Jesus no longer apply to us. Instead, they argue, Jesus’ teaching was for the Jews under the Law before the new covenant was inaugurated, whereas Paul brought the message of grace. If this false dichotomy doesn’t raise a red flag of warning, nothing will. Simply stated, any teaching that minimizes (or even ignores) the teachings of Jesus should be rejected.
​

I'm just now reading this article and I can testify that I have encountered all of these beliefs right here in this forum.

By the way, I believe #2 is the fundamental Gnostic belief that got kicked out of the early church.

 

[GodsGrace]

Regarding no.3

There is a poster here who is pitting Jesus against Paul.
Jesus was works oriented, if we want to be honest. He came and died to show us how we're supposed to live - not to tell us that we should believe in Him and He'll do the rest. We have our part to do also.

Also, I hear that some books in the N.T. are not as worthy as others because of the fact that they tend to be works oriented.

WORKS has become an unclean word in Christianity.
WORKS is what Jesus came to speak to us about. HOW to make life better HOW to see the Kingdom of God here on Earth. It cannot be seen if we do not do the works Jesus commanded us to do.

Wondering

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There is a poster here who is pitting Jesus against Paul.

I've seen this a lot in forums over the years...including this one.

WORKS has become an unclean word in Christianity.

I know exactly what you mean. I kid that the four letter word in the church that should never be uttered is 'work'.

WORKS is what Jesus came to speak to us about. HOW to make life better HOW to see the Kingdom of God here on Earth. It cannot be seen if we do not do the works Jesus commanded us to do.

It's more than that. Works are the evidence that Jesus will use to judge our faith in his blood. Just as unbeliever's evil work will testify against them and condemn them to hell, so the believer's righteous work will testify for them and acquit them from the guilt of their sin. Not because their good work pardons evil work, but because it proves that the person has the faith in Christ that does pardon evil work.

 

[GodsGrace]

I've seen this a lot in forums over the years...including this one.

I know exactly what you mean. I kid that the four letter word in the church that should never be uttered is 'work'.

It's more than that. Works are the evidence that Jesus will use to judge our faith in his blood. Just as unbeliever's evil work will testify against them and condemn them to hell, so the believer's righteous work will testify for them and acquit them from the guilt of their sin. Not because their good work pardons evil work, but because it proves that the person has the faith in Christ that does pardon evil work.

Of course. Faith without works is dead.
James 2:14-26

Jesus said to love our neighbor, go to church, feed the hungry, clothe the poor, be the salt of the earth, be the light of the world, He gave a whole sermon called The Beatitudes, He even told us how to pray, how to fast.

Did He not know what He was talking about??? It would be funny, if it weren't so sad.

W

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Did He not know what He was talking about???

Hyper-grace theology says what Jesus said does not apply to New Covenant believers.

I've not watched this thing grow over the years, but I've been saved long enough to recognize the fundamental errors of doctrine that were already in the church upon which these new hyper-grace doctrines grew from. One of them is the church's long time belief that there were two gospels--one for the Jew, a gospel centered around the law, and one for the gentile a gospel centered around grace.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hyper-grace theology says what Jesus said does not apply to New Covenant believers.

I've not watched this thing grow over the years, but I've been saved long enough to recognize the fundamental errors of doctrine that were already in the church upon which these new hyper-grace doctrines grew from. One of them is the church's long time belief that there were two gospels--one for the Jew, a gospel centered around the law, and one for the gentile a gospel centered around grace.

Yeah. Any excuse will do. I've studied and taught the covenants ( to those who know very little! ) so I know what you're talking about. But Jesus didn't say he came to abolish the Law --
I need to borrow my post up above no. 4 for that other thread. Some don't even understand scripture...

W

 

[Cygnus]

Hyper-grace teaching contains some truth such as....Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven. They error when they say believers are not responsible for their sin. They error when they say believers don't need to repent.

In the letters to the seven churches Jesus instructs the church in Ephesus to repent. See Rev 2:5.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But Jesus didn't say he came to abolish the Law --

Amen.
I have found this to be one of the hardest truths to show to Protestant believers. It has gotten to the point in the church that the end of the law really means the end of the law (in complete contradiction to Jesus), not what it actually means, the end of the law for justification (and the end of the letter of the law in regard to literal temple worship). Hyper-grace has taken this serious error of understanding already flourishing in the church and added their own additional untruth to it. As they have done other erroneous doctrines in the church. But this is how leaven works--it grows and works through the whole batch. My honest opinion is this is the last and final leavening of the kingdom. The next purification is the final Judgment. Just my opinion.

 

[GodsGrace]

quoted post removed by staff

There are posters here who believe Jesus' teaching is different from Paul's teaching.
If you're one of them, that's what I was referring to, NOT anything of what you mention above.

And, BTW, could you please read Romans 12, a letter you actually like, and exegete it for me?

Thanks.

Wondering

 

[smaller]

1 & 2 are fair assessments, generally speaking. No amount of hyper damnation is capable of making anyone sinless in any case.

And as if all of us don't need every bit of God's Grace and Mercy available, which is endless and therefore VERY HYPER.

#3 is a bit over the top. I detest any position that can't legitimately harmonize the entirety of scripture. There is a lot of that just about everywhere.

Most believers get sold certain ideas, and seldom challenge these ideas, once bought.

There are some positions, such as the Nicene creed, which I consider beyond reproach or legit critique.

 

[smaller]

Hyper-grace theology says what Jesus said does not apply to New Covenant believers.

I've not watched this thing grow over the years, but I've been saved long enough to recognize the fundamental errors of doctrine that were already in the church upon which these new hyper-grace doctrines grew from. One of them is the church's long time belief that there were two gospels--one for the Jew, a gospel centered around the law, and one for the gentile a gospel centered around grace.

That's full preterism. They have all kinds of serious scriptural legitimacy issues other than hyper grace. I wouldn't even call them that.

 

[Kidron]

There are posters here who believe Jesus' teaching is different from Paul's teaching.
If you're one of them, that's what I was referring to, NOT anything of what you mention above.

And, BTW, could you please read Romans 12, a letter you actually like, and exegete it for me?

Thanks.

Wondering

-
Romans 12.: ..
"Live Holy as i am Holy, saith God".....pretty much sums it up.
And as i have stated over and over, you do this because you ARE SAVED, and not as you twist it.....to STAY SAVED.
Do you follow me?
See, there is Discipleship that FOLLOWS Salvation.
However you and another "poster" here are substituting and including it as a part of Redemption, and that is the theological issue you face.

Its like this....Salvation by Grace through Faith occurs BECAUSE of the Blood Atonement, and NOT BECAUSE OF WORKS or LIFESTYLE.
Works follow being Saved, but have nothing to do with being Redeemed as this is only accomplished by the Blood Atonement.
You "mortify your members", and "present your body a living sacrifice", BECAUSE YOU ARE SAVED, and not because these are necessary to STAY SAVED.
That is the distinction, you and another "poster" here are not grasping.
Try it like this.....ask yourself.......Did your good works save you or did Jesus?........So, if that is your case, then why try to add to Jesus's Atonement YOUR WORKS that didnt save you before HE Saved you?

 

[reba]

closed for review.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Reopened--please avoid making things personal in this thread

 

[GodsGrace]

-
Romans 12.: ..
"Live Holy as i am Holy, saith God".....pretty much sums it up.
And as i have stated over and over, you do this because you ARE SAVED, and not as you twist it.....to STAY SAVED.
Do you follow me?
See, there is Discipleship that FOLLOWS Salvation.
However you and another "poster" here are substituting and including it as a part of Redemption, and that is the theological issue you face.

Its like this....Salvation by Grace through Faith occurs BECAUSE of the Blood Atonement, and NOT BECAUSE OF WORKS or LIFESTYLE.
Works follow being Saved, but have nothing to do with being Redeemed as this is only accomplished by the Blood Atonement.
You "mortify your members", and "present your body a living sacrifice", BECAUSE YOU ARE SAVED, and not because these are necessary to STAY SAVED.
That is the distinction, you and another "poster" here are not grasping.
Try it like this.....ask yourself.......Did your good works save you or did Jesus?........So, if that is your case, then why try to add to Jesus's Atonement YOUR WORKS that didnt save you before HE Saved you?

Kidron,
Indeed, Romans 12 talks about works!

No one here, NO ONE, is saying that works SAVE you.
WE GET IT!

So, forget about that. You're mixing up two different thoughts and it could get confusing.

EPHESIANS 2:8
No one is substituting works or discipleship as a part of redemption.
Done. Finished. Stop.

So we all believe in discipleship, as you do also.
So, must ANYTHING be done to stay saved?

If believing saved me to begin with, what if I STOP BELIEVING?

And why make works a dirty word?? Are they NOT necessary?
Did Jesus say to believe in Him and then sit around all day and do NOTHING?
Are we not witnesses to the rest of humanity? What does being the "light" mean?
What does being the "salt" mean? WHY did Jesus say to DO?

Jesus said He didn't come to abolish the Law. Do you think He used to say things He didn't mean?
He didn't only NOT ABOLISH the Law - He made it more difficult to follow!
Mathew 5:17
Mathew 5:21
Mathew 5:27

He said He came to fulfill the Law.
Fulfill: To make whole, to complete (this is the meaning in my own words).

How did Jesus complete the Law?
By making it possible to follow it. It's still in effect, it now becomes possible to follow it through our love for the Lord.
Jeremiah 31:33

Before the Law was a taskmaster. We had to get our own strength to follow it. It condemned us.
Now the Law is within us. We see it not as an enemy but as a friend wishing to help us. it is no longer a taskmaster, we follow it freely with the help of the Holy Spirit and the love for Jesus.

Every Law still exists. It has NOT been eliminated - not for the Jew and not for the Gentile. The N.T. is the same for all and is to be accepted in the same way for all. For Christ died that ALL who accept Him may be saved - in exactly the same manner and with exactly the same requirements.

I would like to add that Jesus saves us in our fragility. No one here is perfect. I like to say:
You do your best
Jesus does the rest

But - God cannot be mocked!

Wondering