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Is America the Babylon of Scriptures?

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For centuries people have determined that this 'seven mountains' is Rome; for, they say, Rome is built on an area composed of seven hills. But by that reckoning Jerusalem herself could not be ruled out, for she is built upon a series of hills, how many were originally there is obscured because many have been leveled off and filled in over the millennia. So then, if we were to take the Scripture as seven literal hills we could locate several possible locations worldwide.

We do not feel that this is the correct interpretation of the prophecy, and as we shall show below, Scripture gave us much hint as to where this woman (whore) sits.

The "woman" (the whore) is the one-world politico-religious system of the antichrist. It is Mystery Babylon.

Rev 17:4-5
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, [i.e., her name is -] MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

She rides (controls) the world. There are two beasts in Revelation chapter 13, the second is the antichrist (satan) but the first is his (antichrist's) politico-religious system, and it is global once fully in place:

the prophecy of the first beast (the 'New World Order' - NWO)

Rev 13:1-4
1 And I 1 stood upon the sand of the sea 2, and saw a beast 3 rise up out of the sea 2, having seven heads 4 and ten horns, 5 and upon his horns ten crowns, 6 and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 7
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon8 gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his 3 heads as it were wounded to death; 9 and his deadly wound was healed: 10 and all the world wondered after the beast. 3
4 And they 11 worshipped the dragon 8 which gave power unto the beast: 3 and they 11 worshipped the beast, 3 saying, Who is like unto the beast? 3 who is able to make war with him? 12 (KJV)

scripture notes
1 I - John, who was taken forward to the Millennium and shown events future-yet.
2 sand of the sea - 'edge of humanity'. Waters are peoples in the prophecies of the book of Revelation, i.e., "...The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues" (Rev 17:15).
3 a beast - the first beast of two beasts in Rev chpt. 13; this is a political beast, being the one-world system (NWO). The second beast is antichrist/dragon/satan (the same one entity). There are two beasts in Rev chapter 13: "and I beheld another beast..." (Rev 13:11).
4 seven heads - seven regions or territories of influence, seven geographical regions of the confederacy, liken it representative of all seven continents. 7 = completeness.
5 ten horns - ten centers of power, ten confederated magistrates. The 'capitals' in the seven heads. 'Horns' always symbolize power and rule (see Dan 7:20-21).
6 ten crowns - ten men, ten rulers, ten kings (most likely ten Kenites).
7 name of blasphemy - the blasphemy is that this beast (the one-world system) shall eventually worship and pay honors to a false god (satan/antichrist). "...with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory...." (Dan 11:37-39).
8 the dragon - the antichrist/dragon/satan (the same one entity), this is the second beast. The dragon (satan/antichrist) controls the first beast (the NWO), first from his place of holding (in Heaven - Rev 12:7-8), then, after he is cast out unto the earth (Rev 12:9), he rules from earth as the antichrist, as the false god of 2nd Thes 2:4.
9 wounded to death - war or near war. This first beast is a global system, a confederacy of the world's powers. The 'deadly wound' to a beast such as this is a political blow (civil war, secession attempt by one of the heads or horns?) that destabilizes the NWO.
10 was healed - union strengthened, rebellion put down, global unity restored. This is accomplished by satan/dragon/antichrist when he arrives on the earth in Rev 12:9.
11 they - "all the world" from the preceding verse (verse 3).
12 who is able to make war with him? - they (all the world) shrink at the irony of a one-world system, there is no way to resist it, for it is universal. There can be no option to a one-world system, there is only one government, one banking system, one food distribution system, one school system with one curriculum, one media, one law, and one religion. They would ask: "Who can resist, who can fight it?" Answer: God's Elect, through His grace and the power of the Holy Spirit!


This whole-world one-world system begins politically by the hands and operations of mankind (though motivated by satan/antichrist from his place of holding) and evolves into a solid whole-world Confederacy, becomes wholly a global Communistic government, and then finally when satan is cast out of his place of holding in Heaven (Rev12:9) as the antichrist, it manifests itself into a pure, albeit wholly corrupted, planetary Theocracy (God ruled, or ruled by a god figure). The whole planet and every citizen in bondage and enslaved by satan (as the antichrist) through deception and lies.

But getting back to the woman, she sits upon the seven regions of the world, which indicates her supremacy over the entire globe:

Rev 17:9
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. (KJV)

Below we see that this woman sits upon the peoples, all the peoples (the sea  the waters = the peoples):

Rev 17:15
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. (KJV)

Mystery Babylon is that woman:

Rev 14:8
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication [religious adultery]. (KJV)

Scripture then tells us that the woman is the great city (Jerusalem):

Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. (KJV)

We see Jerusalem referred to as that great city even in the Old Testament:

Jer 22:8
8 And many nations shall pass by this city, and they shall say every man to his neighbour, Wherefore hath the LORD done thus unto this great city? (KJV)

Finally, Scriptures nails down, without any room for doubt, the exact location and thus the identity of the great city:

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. (KJV)

And after the end of this age, after the great Judgment Day, after the old things are done away with, after all evil and evil doers are cast into the Lake of Fire (commonly referred to as 'going to hell'), the new Heaven and new earth (commonly referred to as Heaven) is identified as the great city Jerusalem (rejuvenated and with God present):

Rev 21:10
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (KJV)

America is not Babylon! America is the greatest Christian nation existing, had not God so blessed America (and her brother nation Great Britain) the world would not have any Christian nations left. This was done by God's good pleasure and His design, we are strong and feared militarily worldwide, and because of that, Christianity has been allowed to exist globally. if you remove Great Britain and America from the history of the world, Christianity would have long ago become not. But God was and is always in control.

Sadly though, the end-time Jerusalem shall be Babylon, God's holy city wholly trodden under and defiled; for it is there that the antitype to the 'King of Babylon,' i.e., (antichrist/satan/dragon/serpent/devil/son of perdition/man of sin/ &c.  many names, same entity  see Gen 3:15, Rev 12:9, Rev 20:2, &c.) shall sit and rule the world:

II Th 2:2-4
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ [the Second Advent] is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [the Second Advent], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition [the antichrist];
4 Who [the antichrist] opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (KJV)

There is only one place on the planet that would contain the "the temple of God," that is Jerusalem, that great city. For satan shall sit there imitating the Lord (as the antichrist, the instead-of christ), no other place would do, for satan is vain and proud and shall seek to become as God; he will not set up some cheap temple in some second-rate city anywhere else in the world, he will reign (falsely) from Jerusalem, that great city, "shewing himself that he is God."

In prophecy, America is Manasseh and Israel, as Britain is Ephraim and Israel in prophecy  they are brothers who received the blessings from their father Joseph (by God's approval & design), see Gen 48:8-22. Israel is wherever the Israel peoples are.

In prophecy, 'Jerusalem' and 'Judah' and 'Zion' are the location of modern day Israel (in Palestine). The reason being that the Israel peoples are not now in the modern day Israel of the Middle East, they (true Israel) are in the places whence they were scattered (America, Great Britain, &c.). The people currently in the modern day state of Israel are not the Biblical Israel peoples, they are mostly (not all!) impostors of the house of Edom (Esau & Kenites & Khazars &c.), mixed in with some of true Judah. They are mostly (not all!) the people spoken of below:

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. (KJV)

Rev 2:9
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. (KJV)

http://www.biblestudysite.com/answers16.htm#2
 
Interesting.

I was 'beginning' to THINK that I might be the 'only one on the planet' that was able to SEE the inference of POSSIBILITY that America could WELL be the 'mystery Babylon' described in Revelation. For America as an 'entity' is NOT specifically referenced in Revelation. This FACT alone would indicate that IF America IS an intact 'country' at the time of Revelation, it MUST be mentioned. And the parallels of America to that described in 'mystery Babylon' is certainly to be taken seriously.

Thanks for that offering.

MEC
 
onelove said:
For centuries people have determined that this 'seven mountains' is Rome; for, they say, Rome is built on an area composed of seven hills. But by that reckoning Jerusalem herself could not be ruled out, for she is built upon a series of hills, how many were originally there is obscured because many have been leveled off

Exegesis demands that we view this from the standpoint of John's intended readers. All of them knew Rome as the "city of 7 hills" it was not a term that is only recently invented by a few.

there is no indication at all from history or scripture that Jerusalem was called "the city of 7 hills".

I don't see anyway to get America to be the city of 7 hills or Jerusalem to be that city.

. There are two beasts in Revelation chapter 13, the second is the antichrist (satan) but the first is his (antichrist's) politico-religious system, and it is global once fully in place:

the prophecy of the first beast (the 'New World Order' - NWO)

[quote:5eea2]
Rev 13:1-4
1 And I 1 stood upon the sand of the sea 2, and saw a beast 3 rise up out of the sea 2, having seven heads 4 and ten horns, 5 and upon his horns ten crowns, 6 and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 7
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon8 gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his 3 heads as it were wounded to death; 9 and his deadly wound was healed: 10 and all the world wondered after the beast. 3
4 And they 11 worshipped the dragon 8 which gave power unto the beast: 3 and they 11 worshipped the beast, 3 saying, Who is like unto the beast? 3 who is able to make war with him? 12 (KJV)

scripture notes
1 I - John, who was taken forward to the Millennium and shown events future-yet.
[/quote:5eea2]

The millennium does not come up in Revelation until chapter 20 -- this event in Rev 13 is just after the 1260 years of persecution -- the dark ages -- mentioned in Rev 12.

2 sand of the sea - 'edge of humanity'. Waters are peoples in the prophecies of the book of Revelation, i.e., "...The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues" (Rev 17:15).

That is true. The first beast of Rev 13 and the woman and beast of Rev 17 are in fact the same.

The woman represents a "bad religious system" the beast a bad government.

3 a beast - the first beast of two beasts in Rev chpt. 13; this is a political beast, being the one-world system (NWO).

More specifically it is a system that composes all the beast types listed in Daniel 7 -- only in reverse order. This is because John is looking back on that history and Daniel was looking forward to it.

The second beast is antichrist/dragon/satan (the same one entity).

Nothing in Rev 13 identifies the lamb-like beast (the second one in Rev 13) as "Antichrist" or "Satan" or "Dragon".

For that one - we need to go to Rev 12 where those words are actually used. But if your point is that the beast of Rev 12 may in fact be the one we see in Rev 13 as the first beast of Rev 13 -- you are probably right.

There are two beasts in Rev chapter 13: "and I beheld another beast..." (Rev 13:11).
4 seven heads - seven regions or territories of influence, seven geographical regions of the confederacy, liken it representative of all seven continents. 7 = completeness.
5 ten horns - ten centers of power, ten confederated magistrates. The 'capitals' in the seven heads. 'Horns' always symbolize power and rule (see Dan 7:20-21).
6 ten crowns - ten men, ten rulers, ten kings (most likely ten Kenites).

No Kenites in Rev 13.

7 name of blasphemy - the blasphemy is that this beast (the one-world system) shall eventually worship and pay honors to a false god (satan/antichrist). "...with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory...." (Dan 11:37-39).

That does apply to the first beast of Rev 13 and to the beast in Rev 12 where those words actually occur.

8 the dragon - the antichrist/dragon/satan (the same one entity), this is the second beast.

Not according to Rev 13. Rev 12 is the one that mentions "Dragon" and "satan" and the closest you get to that in Rev 13 -- is the first beast.

in Christ,

Bob
 
For centuries people have determined that this 'seven mountains' is Rome; for, they say, Rome is built on an area composed of seven hills. But by that reckoning Jerusalem herself could not be ruled out, for she is built upon a series of hills, how many were originally there is obscured because many have been leveled off and filled in over the millennia. So then, if we were to take the Scripture as seven literal hills we could locate several possible locations worldwide.
Exegesis demands that we view this from the standpoint of John's intended readers. All of them knew Rome as the "city of 7 hills" it was not a term that is only recently invented by a few.

there is no indication at all from history or scripture that Jerusalem was called "the city of 7 hills".

I don't see anyway to get America to be the city of 7 hills or Jerusalem to be that city.
Neither do I. But...

It's very easy to view Jerusalem as the city in question. I've done it in length many times in this forum. I've even posted an ancient topographical map of Jerusalem a few years. That post and the link for the map got lost in a forum and database upgrade. :-? I believe my more recent posts are around here, somewhere.

It's even easier to see Rome as the city. There is one problem though. It's more of a problem for the pure futurist who is trying to place the RCC into this prophecy. The RCC is based not in Rome, but outside of Rome, in Vatican City. That also places it outside of the seven hill region. A Rome interpretation lends itself to a historical view. You know, the Jewish Revolt; Nero's retaliation; the destruction of Jerusalem by fire and flood in 70AD, etc.

Jerusalem seems to fit well with me. It can be placed in both a historical and futuristic view. It better satisfies the many warnings and prophecies against Jerusalem. It's city was indeed in a mountain situated on seven hills. These hilltops had names back then too. One of the was Zion. We also have this:

Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Rome was never considered by God as a Holy Mountain. Zion is though. ;-) Don't look too far into the future. Start with the Bible. It reveals all you need to know about prophecy and End Times. Rome is barely mentioned. America and any far in the future nation isn't mentioned either. Israel and Jerusalem are mentioned all throughout Scripture. 8-)

Some nonBiblical references:

But strange as it may seem, the City of Jerusalem as it existed in the time of Christ Jesus was also reckoned to be the "City of Seven Hills." This fact was well recognized in Jewish circles. In the Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer, an eighth century midrashic narrative (section 10), the writer mentioned without commentary (showing that the understanding was well known and required no defense) that "Jerusalem is situated on seven hills" (recorded in The Book of Legends, edited by Bialik and Ravnitzky, p. 371, paragraph 111). And, so it was.

Those "seven hills" are easy to identify. If one starts with the Mount of Olives just to the east of the main City of Jerusalem (but still reckoned to be located within the environs of Jerusalem), there are three summits to that Mount of Olives. The northern summit (hill) is called Scopus [Hill One], the middle summit (hill) was called Nob [Hill Two], the highest point of Olivet itself, and the southern summit (hill) was called in the Holy Scriptures the "Mount of Corruption" or "Mount of Offence" [Hill Three] (II Kings 23:13). On the middle ridge between the Kedron and the Tyropoeon Valleys there was (formerly) in the south "Mount Zion" [Hill Four] (the original "Mount Zion" and not the later southwest hill that was later called by that name), then the "Ophel Mount" [Hill Five] and then to the north of that the "Rock" around which "Fort Antonia" was built [Hill Six].

And finally, there was the southwest hill itself [Hill Seven] that finally became known in the time of Simon the Hasmonean as the new "Mount Zion." This makes "Seven Hills" in all....

... We find that the last world capital would be "Mystery Babylon" and that it would have "seven mountains" (Revelation 17:9) associated with it. The fact that history has "Seven Hills" (or "Mountains") associated with FOUR world kingdoms: Babylon, Rome, Byzantium, and Jerusalem, there has been some confusion about which of these (or, perhaps, another "New City") was the intention of the apostle John who was writing for Christ Jesus in the Book of Revelation. The truth is, however, when one looks at the subject of the Book of Revelation carefully, there is only one of those "Cities of Seven Hills" that could possibly be the subject of the End-Time revelation. That is the City of Jerusalem. The "Mystery Babylon" of the Book of Revelation is none other than Jerusalem!

The last world kingdom will be headquartered in Jerusalem, not in Rome, Babylon on the Euphrates or in Byzantium, or anywhere else. The Antichrist will come to Jerusalem. He will look in all appearances as though he is none other than Christ Jesus himself....
http://www.askelm.com/prophecy/p000201.htm

"The last world kingdom will be headquartered in Jerusalem, not in Rome, Babylon on the Euphrates or in Byzantium, or anywhere else. The Antichrist will come to Jerusalem."

Just as Dan 11:45 predicts. ;-)


Simply goto Google and search for "seven hills of Jerusalem". Enjoy this alternate, and in my opinion, more Biblical view.
 
To me, mystery Babylon is the false religious system of the world. We see this in Rev.17:17-18. She deceivess the world ( verse 2). The false prophet rises with the ant-christ as he climbs to power ( verse 3). The anti-christ's own coalition finally turns against this false church and destroys it ( REv. 17:12, 16, 17).

The anti-christ builds a costal city somewhere in the Middle East, Babylon the great ( Rev. 18:1-24). This port city will be the center of commerce, wealth, and wickedness ( 18:16-19). This city and persecution of the Triibulation saints is totally destroyed by the power of God in one hour ( 18:17-24).

So where is this city? It cannot be Jerusalem. because God would not destroy His city ever again. I believe the fastest growing religion is the Muslem religion. I think this city could be Iraq, where we are beginning to see it thriving right now and will continue to grow into one of the biggest ports in the world. We see in Matt. 24 the beginning of sorrows or birth pains.

Anyway, this is how I see it.


Peace, Golfjack
 
Bob said --
Exegesis demands that we view this from the standpoint of John's intended readers. All of them knew Rome as the "city of 7 hills" it was not a term that is only recently invented by a few.

there is no indication at all from history or scripture that Jerusalem was called "the city of 7 hills".

I don't see anyway to get America to be the city of 7 hills or Jerusalem to be that city.

vic C. said:
Neither do I. But...

It's very easy to view Jerusalem as the city in question. I've done it in length many times in this forum. I've even posted an ancient topographical map of Jerusalem a few years. That post and the link for the map got lost in a forum and database upgrade. :-? I believe my more recent posts are around here, somewhere.

Even if we could come to an iron clad rationale for why Jerusalem could be called "City of seven hills" the exegetical problem is that we can not show that John or the people he wrote to in the first century A.D called it by that term or knew it that way.

But more importanly - the 7 hill designator is not the only identifier for Rome in Rev 12 and 17.

It's even easier to see Rome as the city. There is one problem though. It's more of a problem for the pure futurist who is trying to place the RCC into this prophecy. The RCC is based not in Rome, but outside of Rome, in Vatican City. That also places it outside of the seven hill region. A Rome interpretation lends itself to a historical view. You know, the Jewish Revolt; Nero's retaliation; the destruction of Jerusalem by fire and flood in 70AD, etc.

Many who hold to the historicist view also apply this to Rome.

And many historians -- yes even Catholic ones - admit that Rome was handed over to the Papacy by Constantine.

Notice
“A Concise History of the Catholic Church†– Thomas Bokenkotter.
P 39. (Chapter 4 – Constantine favors the Christians and inaugurates a new Era of Church History)

“The emperor (Constantine) showed great generosity to the Church in lavishing donations on it an erecting numerous sumptuous basilicas, including the magnificent one over the supposed site of Peter at Rome and another over the tomb of Christ in Jerusalem. [b]He surrendered his Lateran Palace in Rome to the bishop of Rome for a residence, and it remained the Papal residence until 1308. When in 324 he moved the capital of the Empire to Byzantium[/b], which was renamed Constantinople after him, he erected numerous churches there, including the two great ones dedicated to peace and to the holy apostles.

in Christ,

Bob
 
BobRyan said:
... Even if we could come to an iron clad rationale for why Jerusalem could be called "City of seven hills" the exegetical problem is that we can not show that John or the people he wrote to in the first century A.D called it by that term or knew it that way.
My source above claims they did know it that way. Plus if you do the "seven hills of Jerusalem" search, many other sources claim the same.

Bob, I'm not dogmatic about this belief, but Biblically, from cover to cover, one can make it work. Again, many of the links in that search do just that.

[quote:8dc6e]It's even easier to see Rome as the city. There is one problem though. It's more of a problem for the pure futurist who is trying to place the RCC into this prophecy. The RCC is based not in Rome, but outside of Rome, in Vatican City. That also places it outside of the seven hill region. A Rome interpretation lends itself to a historical view. You know, the Jewish Revolt; Nero's retaliation; the destruction of Jerusalem by fire and flood in 70AD, etc.
Many who hold to the historicist view also apply this to Rome....[/quote:8dc6e]
That is correct. http://www.historicist.com is a good source for that belief.

Later Bob. :)
 
BobRyan said:
And many historians -- yes even Catholic ones - admit that Rome was handed over to the Papacy by Constantine.
That is most untrue. One need only read Christian writings prior to Constatine to refute that position.

And that does not explain this list of popes before Constatine's reign:

St. Peter (32-67)
St. Linus (67-76)
St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
St. Clement I (88-97)
St. Evaristus (97-105)
St. Alexander I (105-115)
St. Sixtus I (115-125) Also called Xystus I
St. Telesphorus (125-136)
St. Hyginus (136-140)
St. Pius I (140-155)
St. Anicetus (155-166)
St. Soter (166-175)
St. Eleutherius (175-189)
St. Victor I (189-199)
St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
St. Callistus I (217-22)
St. Urban I (222-30)
St. Pontain (230-35)
St. Anterus (235-36)
St. Fabian (236-50)
St. Cornelius (251-53)
St. Lucius I (253-54)
St. Stephen I (254-257)
St. Sixtus II (257-258)
St. Dionysius (260-268)
St. Felix I (269-274)
St. Eutychian (275-283)
St. Caius (283-296) Also called Gaius
St. Marcellinus (296-304)
St. Marcellus I (308-309)
St. Eusebius (309 or 310)
St. Miltiades (311-14)
St. Sylvester I (314-35)
 
Rev18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

JMHO but I think Rev18:24 makes it pretty clear that we connot limit Babylon to a single location, religion, or time period. How can we find the blood of ALL who were slain upon the earth in any one location or time frame?

JMHO but I think it is possible that Babylon represents the often murderous, material greed driven nature of mankind, both personally and in government, trapped by the things of this world, in other words satans stuff, to the persons personal condemnation, throughout he entire history of mankind.
 

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