Is Faith a Choice?

[Sparkey]

Re: Is Doubt a Choice?

The opposite of God-Trust (Faith) is unbelief (Doubt). Both are seen in the choices that are made.

James likened a doubting person to a wave of the sea, unstable, driven to and fro: "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord" (James 1:6).

Jesus' disciple Thomas refused to believe that Jesus had risen from the dead until He saw the risen Lord. Jesus said to Thomas, 'Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.' And Thomas answered and said unto him, 'My Lord and my God.' Jesus saith unto him, 'Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed'" (John 20:27-30).

The Bible mentions two kinds of unbelief. One kind of unbelief is doubt accompanied by a desire to believe: "Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief" (Mark 9:24). Jesus had mercy on the father who said this, for this man's son was possessed by an evil spirit. Although the father had his doubts, he was willing to exercise faith and demonstrate belief in asking, so Jesus healed his son.

Another kind of unbelief is an obstinate, hard-hearted refusal to believe: "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God" (Hebrews 3:12). This kind of unbelief not only hinders the supernatural work of God (see Matthew 13:58) but also brings about God's righteous anger and swift judgment.

"And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be:
for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith."


<table border="0" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0" width="292"><tbody><tr><td align="RIGHT">-- Deuteronomy 32:20</td></tr></tbody></table>
"And he said unto them, 'Why are ye so fearful? How is it that ye have no faith'?"


<table border="0" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0" width="292"><tbody><tr><td align="RIGHT">-- Mark 4:40</td></tr></tbody></table>

"But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


<table border="0" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0" width="292"><tbody><tr><td align="RIGHT">-- Hebrews 11:6 KJV</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

[Grazer]

Unbelief and doubt are not the same thing. Unbelief is a settled state of mind, doubt is an undecided state of mind

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[Aardverk]

Faith: 1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something. 2. Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.

By the above definition, faith is a matter of choice. The essential element is the very last word - 'proof'.

Only in the absence of proof can there be faith.​

As children we just believe what we are told and treat it as fact - so children can not really be said to have faith. As adults we all have to overcome the reasonable doubts that are natural to most of us and decide what is believable and what is not. We have to sift through conflicting information and decide which is more reasonable. Having done that, we all decide whether to place our 'faith' in something or not and therefore we all end up believing slightly different things.

Any adult who accepts everything they are told, or read, are not displaying 'faith' but are displaying something else instead ;)

 

[Aardverk]

Unbelief and doubt are not the same thing. Unbelief is a settled state of mind, doubt is an undecided state of mind

An interesting distinction. I have long operated on the basis of 'the balance of probabilities'.

For example, on the balance of probabilities, I think that Jesus walked the Earth 2000 years ago and said and did many of the things recorded in the Bible. Also, on the balance of probabilities, I think that not everything attributed to him is likely to be true.

In a sense therefore, I have side-stepped 'faith' and gone with something else. By your definition I think you would call it unbelief - which seems a little unfair

 

[Heb11:6]

The Bible says Pharoah hardened his heart and God hardened it. Check out the words used in these passages and you will see that Pharoah hardens his own heart towards God and this is the causative action which leads to God further hardening it. Like the verses in the NT that say "those who have not shall have taken from them what they have" (Luke 8:18). Esua was not chosen because God foreknew that he was a profane person that would trade his birthright (Hebrews 12:16). God responding to men's choices and who they are.

 

[stovebolts]

Here's a curve ball.

Faith is about as much a choice as breathing. Everybody has faith and everybody has hope. Question is, who do you put your faith and hope in and that's where choice comes in.

 

[Edward]

I agree that unbelief and doubt are separate issues. Believing in something and choosing to put your trust in it are clearly different to me. Belief is indeed a settled state of mind, but stops there for it is a state of mind only. Faith implies action to me, a walk of faith. Belief is involved in faith, one must believe first, and then get up and walk with it and put it into action. I do not think it would be inaccurate to say that while belief is a state of mind, that faith is a state of heart. To trust someone is to set your heart upon them and know that they will not let you down. You do not have to wonder in your mind if it will be so, you know in your heart that it will be so. Men can betray your trust, only God alone will never betray you.

Exercising faith develops more faith. Do you pray for help in the morning, and in the afternoon, ask a man to help you? That's not a walk of faith. It is doubt. It's believing in him but not trusting him. I believe this is a dangerous thing to do and could be insulting to God. It's fairly easy to look back at our life and see the instances where God had helped us through troubled times. If God helped you yesterday, why wouldn't he help you again today? He will, but we must have faith in him that he will. He has never broken a promise to us or let us down and forsaken us. I believe that this is why Jesus told so many people that asked him for help...let it be so according to thy faith...


When you trust your Wife or Husband, do you then go sneaking around checking up on them? That's not trust. It angers the Wife or Husband when the other does not trust them. It may anger God also. (Choosing to) have faith or trust in another, means to set your heart on the fact that they will not let you down. You are able to put the doubts out of your mind and just know in the heart that it is ok. One can then free up their mind from the doubts and go about the days business without distraction or worry. Give no thought to the morrow and what it will bring, what you will eat, or that you will have rainment. God knows your needs and all we need to do is to put our faith in him. It most certainly is a choice and a definitive action, a walk of faith. A walk with the spirit.

Choosing to not have faith in God will bring troubled times. There will be doubt because of the nature of the flesh. Will you rationalize the words of men, and choose to put your faith in them rather than God? Is it easier to believe on the things of man because they have the ability to create plausible deniability and offer supposed proof, where with God there is no proof available to us? Here is where the choice is. To put (choose) your faith in man or God.

 

[The Unbeliever]

Here's a curve ball.

Faith is about as much a choice as breathing. Everybody has faith and everybody has hope. Question is, who do you put your faith and hope in and that's where choice comes in.

But surely there are constraints upon what you can put your faith and hope in. Even if I wished to, I could not believe in Santa Claus, no matter how appealing the idea might be to me.

 

[Edward]

You made a decision to not believe in Santa Claus, perhaps based on your maturity, intellect, and gut instinct. It goes against everything you know and have seen to be able to decide that Santa could be real. This may or may not be on a conscious level but the decision making process is in place and used.

 

[The Unbeliever]

You made a decision to not believe in Santa Claus, perhaps based on your maturity, intellect, and gut instinct. It goes against everything you know and have seen to be able to decide that Santa could be real. This may or may not be on a conscious level but the decision making process is in place and used.

No, I made no such decision. When it was impressed upon me that Santa Claus was not real, I could not have made the decision to continue believing in him. Belief in Santa Claus at that point was beyond me, for I had no basis upon which to justify it to myself. Similarly, I cannot believe the sky is naturally green or that I have three arms and not two. These beliefs are not available to me.

 

[stovebolts]

But surely there are constraints upon what you can put your faith and hope in. Even if I wished to, I could not believe in Santa Claus, no matter how appealing the idea might be to me.

Santa Clause huh? You just had to go there didn't you.

If it helps any at all, I don't put my faith in Santa Clause either. ;)

 

[for_his_glory]

Faith proves itself in that which is revealed to be a truth. It's like Christ revealed to us by his word that we have to apply the word of God in order to know if what He has already said is true. It's like an ointment, if you do not apply it then how will you know if it works. Some medicines take time to work if we are patient and allow it to and the same with the word of God, we need patience for Gods perfect timing in us that perfects us from the inside out.

 

[stovebolts]

Great way to express it for_his_glory

 

[The Unbeliever]

Faith proves itself in that which is revealed to be a truth. It's like Christ revealed to us by his word that we have to apply the word of God in order to know if what He has already said is true. It's like an ointment, if you do not apply it then how will you know if it works. Some medicines take time to work if we are patient and allow it to and the same with the word of God, we need patience for Gods perfect timing in us that perfects us from the inside out.

And if you apply it and it does not seem to work? I know you can always object that someone didn't apply it long enough, but surely there are limits to that. If someone told you lemon juice cured diabetes, should a diabetic continue to use this remedy until it worked?

 

[Edward]

And if you apply it and it does not seem to work? I know you can always object that someone didn't apply it long enough, but surely there are limits to that. If someone told you lemon juice cured diabetes, should a diabetic continue to use this remedy until it worked?

This is a poor analogy, but I'll bite. Yes, the diabetic should continue to use the remedy. The key here is not that a (man) told him the remedy works, but rather God. At that point when the diabetic doesn't know if it's really working or not and has his doubt about it, is when he should not lean upon his own understanding, but to be still and let God be God and work in his own way in his own time. That we do not know the ways of God should have no effect on our faith. We are not to give God a time limit on how long we will have faith in him, or conclude that there is no God. Oh ye of little faith!

Let's liken it to some soldiers sent to laser target a mobile missle sight for destruction. They've been spotted by the enemy and are coming under fire. They call in an air strike and are told that it's on the way and to keep that laser focused and on target. The mortars are getting closer, no planes in sight. They're scared, near death and really need deliverance in the form of an air strike to save them. What should they do? Stay focused, stay on target, have faith that at the last minute the A-10s will come screaming over the horizon to deliver death to the enemy and save the squad of soldiers from certain death. Not only are they under orders to keep it targeted, it is also their best chance for survival. Hang in there, have faith, and do what you're told, even if you don't quite understand it. Better?

I know that you want to believe that you didn't make a decision to not believe in Santa Claus, that it is simply impossible for you to do so...but you did.

Belief in Santa Claus at that point was beyond me, for I had no basis upon which to justify it to myself.

You're rationalizing! You seem to be saying that you don't have enough info to be able to make a decision about it. Yet you did, based on what you do know. Making decisions based on less than a full understanding and/or without proof is what faith is all about. Forgive me, I mean no offense, but you seem to have the position that you can't take a leap of faith without proof. You give credence to your intellect where you should not. That's not how faith works, brother.

 

[for_his_glory]

And if you apply it and it does not seem to work? I know you can always object that someone didn't apply it long enough, but surely there are limits to that. If someone told you lemon juice cured diabetes, should a diabetic continue to use this remedy until it worked?

Who are we to limit that of God and His perfect timing. The carnal man is inpatient and full of doubts and will try to use God like a Jeanie to grant their wishes and if their wishes do not come true then they lack any belief that God even exists. Faith isn't even ours, but that of Christ Jesus as we choose to either believe who he said he was and is and accept him as our Lord and Savior or reject even the thought of there even being a Christ or God at all. If we come to Christ through a Spiritual renewal, John 3:3; John 14:26, and have no doubts in our heart then when we learn of His promises we will see Christ revealed to us by the promises of God.

Psalms 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

 

[Sparkey]

Who are we to limit that of God and His perfect timing. The carnal man is inpatient and full of doubts and will try to use God like a Jeanie to grant their wishes and if their wishes do not come true then they lack any belief that God even exists. Faith isn't even ours, but that of Christ Jesus as we choose to either believe who he said he was and is and accept him as our Lord and Savior or reject even the thought of there even being a Christ or God at all. If we come to Christ through a Spiritual renewal, John 3:3; John 14:26, and have no doubts in our heart then when we learn of His promises we will see Christ revealed to us by the promises of God.

Psalms 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Greetings for_his_glory,
I liked your reply to The Unbeliever. As one diagnosed with Type II Diabetes, the idea of drinking lemon juice as a healing tonic does seem silly. The Unbeliever seemed to ask if there was a canned response prepared for those who did not receive immediate benefit, such as, "You didn't apply it long enough to receive the merit of the prescription," and your response prompted many thoughts in me.

My first thought was of the blind man whom Jesus healed after He applied mud to his eyes in John, chapter 9. I saw very little delay in that, but didn't see any such "You didn't wait long enough," kind of thing at all. The blind man was instructed to go to a specific pool and wash (the pool of Siloam) so there was some little delay between the act of making the mud and the gift (not restoration) of his sight. The blind man acted in obedience (in faith) and after having washed, received his sight. People were astounded because he was blind from birth. (see John 9:32 KJV). He was presented to the Pharisees (fait accompli) and they dismissed him and his cause, saying, "We know this man a sinner." But that was not the issue behind the questions. They had already made their choice that if any were to declare Jesus the Christ, that same man would be put out of fellowship with the Synagogue *see John 9:22.

"[The Pharisees] answered and said unto him, 'Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us?' And they cast him out.

Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, 'Dost thou believe on the Son of God?'

He answered and said, 'Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?'

And Jesus said unto him, 'Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.'

And he said, 'Lord, I believe.' And he worshipped him.

And Jesus said, 'For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.'

And [some] of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, 'Are we blind also?'

Jesus said unto them, 'If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.'" - John 9:34-41 KJV

​

If I were told by the Holy Spirit to drink lemon juice, it is my hope that I should also be given enough faith to act on the instruction with every expectation of being healed. No, I do not believe that the instruction should be changed to mean, "keep drinking until you are healed," but would, upon completion of the next Fasting Glucose, and seeing the low (acceptable) blood sugar level, also hope that my first thought would be in thanks to my Creator who heals.

Regarding your reply about the carnal mind lacking patience, you are spot-on. Am I the only Christian who, in his youth, has bought a lotto ticket and asked God to make me a millionaire? My foolish prayer was of course accompanied with the admonition that God should "Think on the good that I could do (with my winnings)". But will God answer such a request? I see that He will. Moses said of the vast riches of Egypt, that they were as dung (Heb 11:24-26) when compared to the "reproach of Christ" (the reproach that comes from being associated with the Anointed of God). I see the delay in God's response to my foolish Lotto prayer as a deferral. No obscene "reward" is being transferred now, so as to enrich my reward in heaven, later. My youthful understanding about the "god/Jeanie in a bottle" has matured. It is as if I am being taught to put my treasure in heaven, for there will also be my heart. (Mt 6:21)

Though it is clear that John carefully structured the story in the way that he did in order to make a point, many people disagree on what exactly his point was. It is important to study the passage in order to learn about Jesus' role in the chapter and the steps in the blind man's faith. After examining the narrative, it becomes clear that the story revolves around the blind man's faith. When Jesus heals the blind man, the blind man is transformed both physically and spiritually. He no longer identifies himself as a sinner, and his newfound faith in Jesus is so strong that he is willing to lose everything for him.
Source: The Blind Man of John 9

In conclusion, yes, faith does involve choice. Choices are made when receiving a gift (like the blind man who obeyed) and also when the gift is delayed (like my request for abounding riches). Faith involves trust, both while accepting gifts and also while accepting understanding in lieu of seemingly unanswered prayer. Your response, "Faith isn't even ours, but that of Christ Jesus as we choose to either believe who he said he was and is and accept him as our Lord and Savior or reject even the thought of there even being a Christ," is exceptionally well founded. It is the Rock upon which our faith stands.

 

[abide]

Unbelief and doubt are not the same thing. Unbelief is a settled state of mind, doubt is an undecided state of mind

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Revelation 21:King James Version (KJV)
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Unbelief is part of doubt. If you believe you will not doubt. Why do we call the Apostle Thomas "doubting" Thomas. He said he would have to see the nail prints in Christ's hands for him to BELIEVE. Christ told him blessed are those who have not seen and believe. Belief is tied to faith. Ancient Israel doubted God's promises they lacked faith. Abraham was willing to leave the land of UR. He did not doubt God. When we doubt or disbelieve we are in essence calling God a liar. Saying to ourselves that he cannot perform what he has promised. Lack of faith is a serious thing . Rev 21. 8 clearly states that doubters (or faithless ones) will be thrown in the lake of fire. \
The fearful will be thrown in the lake of fire too. Fear cause us to doubt.. and fear is of the DEVIL. When we doubt or don't have faith we are showing the characteristics of Satan.
Hebrews 11: 6 Without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[The Unbeliever]

This is a poor analogy, but I'll bite. Yes, the diabetic should continue to use the remedy. The key here is not that a (man) told him the remedy works, but rather God.

But that doesn't work when the matter of faith is about God. You can't use God as justification when what you are having trouble believing is that there is a God. Would you tell the diabetic to continue using lemon juice if his source was adherents of Hinduism and its religious texts? You don't believe their god(s) exist.

I know that you want to believe that you didn't make a decision to not believe in Santa Claus, that it is simply impossible for you to do so...but you did.

Just asserting the opposite does not constitute an argument for your position. I know my own situation and I know that at no point did I ever decide that I was not going to believe in God.

You're rationalizing! You seem to be saying that you don't have enough info to be able to make a decision about it. Yet you did, based on what you do know. Making decisions based on less than a full understanding and/or without proof is what faith is all about. Forgive me, I mean no offense, but you seem to have the position that you can't take a leap of faith without proof. You give credence to your intellect where you should not. That's not how faith works, brother.

You aren't demonstrating a proper understanding of what I am saying. So let me use a different analogy. I am incapable of believing I have a third arm. This is not because I ever decided I was not going to believe I had a third arm, but because I have no basis for even obtaining such a belief.

 

[The Unbeliever]

Who are we to limit that of God and His perfect timing. The carnal man is inpatient and full of doubts and will try to use God like a Jeanie to grant their wishes and if their wishes do not come true then they lack any belief that God even exists. Faith isn't even ours, but that of Christ Jesus as we choose to either believe who he said he was and is and accept him as our Lord and Savior or reject even the thought of there even being a Christ or God at all. If we come to Christ through a Spiritual renewal, John 3:3; John 14:26, and have no doubts in our heart then when we learn of His promises we will see Christ revealed to us by the promises of God.

I'm not trying to limit anything. What I am asking is if a remedy is proposed but never demonstrates any effect, why can't we question the remedy?