Is God the Cause of sin and evil in the world ?

[WIP]

I'm not quite sure I made my point clear enough. I'll try again. God didn't "create" light (Jesus) as in forming or building, he said, "Let there be light." Jesus is God and Jesus, who was with God and was God, was manifest of God. I Know what I want to say but I don't know how to put it into words to explain what I am thinking. Sorry.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

When the Holy Spirit of God, the "Ruach" in the Hebrew, moved upon the face of the earth; there is light, for He [the Holy Spirit] is light.

Satan is the darkness that is the negative part of God's plan. Satan was here from the beginning of this earth age, and God allowed it.

I coulda swore I said the same thing.

In considerably fewer words, even.

Although, I have to take issue with the implication that created Satan to sin by being rebellious and deceiving Eve and tempting Adam. He knew it would happen. Does that mean He made it happen? No. And He did not. Also, I have no proof of this, simply the timing shown in the Bible to suggest it, but I believe Satan rebelled in heaven and was cast out about 15 minutes before he showed up coiled around that branch hissing sweet deception into Eve's willing and uneducated ear. But you can do with that what you may, because, as I said, I have no proof.

 

[reba]

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

 

[n2thelight]

When the Holy Spirit of God, the "Ruach" in the Hebrew, moved upon the face of the earth; there is light, for He [the Holy Spirit] is light.

Satan is the darkness that is the negative part of God's plan. Satan was here from the beginning of this earth age, and God allowed it.

I coulda swore I said the same thing.

In considerably fewer words, even.

Although, I have to take issue with the implication that created Satan to sin by being rebellious and deceiving Eve and tempting Adam. He knew it would happen. Does that mean He made it happen? No. And He did not. Also, I have no proof of this, simply the timing shown in the Bible to suggest it, but I believe Satan rebelled in heaven and was cast out about 15 minutes before he showed up coiled around that branch hissing sweet deception into Eve's willing and uneducated ear. But you can do with that what you may, because, as I said, I have no proof.

Yea ,you did say the same thing,I just wanted to add to it in my agreement with what you stated...Didn't mean any harm....

However I don't believe satan has been kicked out of heaven as of yet.......

 

[Guest]

However I don't believe satan has been kicked out of heaven as of yet.......

Incorrect, the serpent in Genesis 3:4 is in fact the devil. Where do you think temptation comes from. [edited]

 

[n2thelight]

However I don't believe satan has been kicked out of heaven as of yet.......

Incorrect, the serpent in Genesis 3:4 is in fact the devil. Where do you think temptation comes from. [edited]

I know quite well who the serpent is,[edited]

Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Mi'-cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,,"

Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

This is the time of the sounding of the fifth trumpet, when Satan and his fallen angels are released upon the earth for the final five months period, spoken of in Revelation 9:5, 10. Satan will spend five months here on earth deceiving all mankind, then go to the pit for the thousand years. After that thousand years, Satan [not his fallen angels] will be released for a short period, then go to perdition [perish]. Once Satan is kicked out of heaven, he will not be allowed to return. Today Satan is in heaven accusing the saints before the Lord.

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

This has yet to happen,for when it does you will see satan live and in person,as he shall pretend to be Christ

II Corinthians 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

Paul is saying that we should not let these false preachers be a marvel to us, "for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light". How can Satan be "transformed into an angel of light", when the Word of God says many times over and over that if you are of Satan, you are a child of the darkness? Something is terrible wrong here. Many people say that we are not to worry because Satan himself is going to be transformed into an angel of light, and they show their complete ignorance of God's Word. Lets read for ourselves what the Strong's Greek dictionary has to say about this word "transformed". The number in the Strong's Greek dictionary is # 3345.

"Metaschematizo, met-ask-ay-met-id-zo; from the Greek #3326, and a derivative of #4976; to transfigure or disguise; fig. to apply (by accommodation): -transfer, or transform (self)." So lets put this in the way that Paul actually said it in the manuscripts of his letter to the Corinthians. "Satan himself is coming disguised into an angel of light." That is how he will appear to those that are going to see him at his coming at the sixth trumpet. They will see him as they expect to see Jesus coming at the seventh trumpet, but they will be deceived by him, because he will appear to be what they expect to see Jesus to be. To "disguise" anything is to change and hide what it truly is, and make it appear to be that it is not.

Satan is coming disguised as an "angel of light", and the true "Angel of Light" is Jesus Christ. He is coming disguised as the Savior, and that is what this warning of Paul's is all about. Paul doesn't want you seduced by Satan spiritually, like many of the virgins of Christ will be. This is from the very parable that Christ put forth. Are you starting to understand a little more of our Heavenly Father's Word?

Again Im very much awake,so take your own advice,Im good!!!!

 

[Guest]

However I don't believe satan has been kicked out of heaven as of yet.......

Incorrect, the serpent in Genesis 3:4 is in fact the devil. Where do you think temptation comes from. [edited]

I know quite well who the serpent is,[edited]

Do you also know that Lucifer was kicked out of heaven a long long time ago, right? and that he was given the name Satan and Devil on earth for specific reasons right?

 

[n2thelight]

However I don't believe satan has been kicked out of heaven as of yet.......

Incorrect, the serpent in Genesis 3:4 is in fact the devil. Where do you think temptation comes from. [edited]

I know quite well who the serpent is,[edited]

Do you also know that Lucifer was kicked out of heaven a long long time ago, right? and that he was given the name Satan and Devil on earth for specific reasons right?

He was able to go to and fro,heaven to earth..After he tempted Christ he was then held in heaven,until Michael kicks him out.......

 

[Guest]

I know quite well who the serpent is,[edited]

Do you also know that Lucifer was kicked out of heaven a long long time ago, right? and that he was given the name Satan and Devil on earth for specific reasons right?

He was able to go to and fro,heaven to earth..After he tempted Christ he was then held in heaven,until Michael kicks him out.......

But what you have to understand is that the devil is still active on earth right now!! He is still going to and fro on earth, right now!!

 

[savedbygrace57]

Because of Everlasting Covenant of Grace in Christ !


That God created this World for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus, A purpose that required[by God's Purpose] the entrance of sin and death, We know it's True because Salvation by Grace in time is according to the settlements of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace Ps 103:17

17 But the mercy or Grace of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Which is God's own Purpose 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

That makes it from Everlasting !

Now to say that this, God's own purpose was formed because He foresaw what adam would do, thats to make adam the temporal creature of time the influencer of the Eternal God, and the causer of His Eternal Purpose in Christ, which is Blasphemy ! God's Purpose is from withing Himself ! Eph 1:9

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:511

 

[Deborah13]

The answer to the question is absolutely Yes ! All things are made or created for God's good pleasure

Was God the cause of the Israelites burning their children?

Jeremiah 32:35

New American Standard Bible (NASB)


35 They built the high places of Baal that are in the valley of Ben-hinnom to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I had not commanded them nor had it entered My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

 

[savedbygrace57]

God's Redemptive Purpose !

To say as some do that God's Eternal Redemptive Purpose is because of sin, is most blasphemous, for it makes Christ Purpose subservient to sin. It also makes God to be subservient to whom or whatever purposed or caused sin, since its denied that God's Purpose caused it, if God did not cause it, who did ? Someone or something outside of God's Own Will and Purpose caused sin, was that entity Lucifer, or adam or eve, which ever, God's Own Purpose became subservient to that entity !

Its much more God Honoring to say that sin is because of God's Eternal Redemptive Purpose !

 

[savedbygrace57]

deb

Was God the cause of the Israelites burning their children?

Yes He was the First Cause of it. Could they have done that if God did not give them being to exist ? Yes or No !

Also could God have prevented them from sinning against Him in that manner if He He so pleased as He did here Gen 20:6

6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.

Yes or No !

 

[rayhodge02]

To try to understand the mind of GOD is impossible with out speculation. GOD is good in EVERYTHING He does..... We(humans ) take what is good and pervert and twist things..Also God is God and does what he see's fit, even if we disagree or don't understand.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

We know that God is the Cause of sin and death into His World because before the World Began, ,and according to His Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ, He purposed to punish the devil and his angels / messengers with everlasting fire. Now Christ is the Lamb foreordained BEFORE the foundation to be slain 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This we know to be according to the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain

Hence all those involved were merely carrying out the Eternal Purpose of God Acts 4:27-28

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

So understand this, that God determined from before the foundation that judas Iscariot would be influenced by satan, the devil to betray Christ in order to be slain. John 13:2,21-27

2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

22 Then the disciples looked one on another, doubting of whom he spake.

23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.

24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.

25 He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?

26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.

27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

So judas and satan were carrying out their predetermined part in the Eternal Purpose of God Lk 22:21-22

21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.

22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

And this slaying of Christ in time was predetermined by God before the foundation 1 Pet 1:20. Now according to God's Purpose, when did He purpose for the devil to put into judas heart to betray Christ ? It had to be before the foundation of the world 1 Pet 1:20, So when did God purpose to punish the devil and his angels/messengers Matt 25:41, why it was before the foundation of the World, before the Creation, so that all things that transpired in Gen 3, after Creation, was merely the acting out of God's Eternal Purpose, which did include sin and death coming into the world as a result of adam's sin Rom 5:12.

The Truth is, all beings, whether human, angelic, or otherwise, and all circumstances created by any being whoever, are but subservient to the Eternal Purpose of God in Christ, and to utter otherwise is Blasphemous and a attack on the Sovereignty, Wisdom, and Power of God, and subjects Him to the will of another outside of His own will, which makes all that God is subservient to His inferior creatures ! Again that is Blasphemy and it will not go unpunished !

 

[savedbygrace57]

When we rebel against the Truth that God is the First and primary Cause why sin and death are in His World, because of His Eternal Redemptive, then we automatically default to believing that God's Eternal Purpose was His reaction to an event that would yet occur in time by an temporal creature made of dust, this instead of of the God Glorifying Truth that the creatures of time are reacting to God's Eternal Purpose formed from Everlasting. Just like when Peter said this of those instrumental in putting Christ to death Acts 4:27-28

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

But no, many believe that the temporal gave being and reaction to the Eternal, and what utter Blasphemy it is, along with exaltation of the creature over the Creator !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Conformity to the Image of Christ !

That this World was Created for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus, which required Redemption from Sin, is True because God's Purpose was always to have a People in the Likeness of His Son Jesus Christ, and not adam.

The Lord Jesus Christ has the Preeminence over adam, in other words, man in adam was created to be conformed into the Image of Christ, which comes through Redemption and Justification.

Now adam was Created for or unto a Redemptive Purpose in Christ, and not the other way around, meaning God first saw that adam would sin, and accordingly He formed an Eternal Redemptive Purpose because of sin; No but sin was decreed into the World because of the already formed Eternal Redemptive Purpose which was to conform man into the Image of Christ Rom 8:28-29

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn[Resurrection] among many brethren

But if God formed His Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ because of sin, then Christ does not have the preeminence in all things Col 1:15-18

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

For because in the Wisdom of God, and to be Glorified by Jesus Christ Jn 17:4, God purposed that it would be through His Sons death of redemption by the Cross, that He would destroy sin, and the devil, and that through this means He would He would conform men into the Image of His Son, The Lord Jesus Christ, and that would not have happened if adam would not have sinned, because adam at best was made of dirt, But God's Image in its original was not from an earthly creation, but from His Only Begotten Son, begotten in Eternity ! Col 1:15

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

This could never be said of adam or man in adam, not ever !

 

[savedbygrace57]

God Created all things ! Rev 4:11

God Created sin simply because sin exists and it does so because God is the cause or occasion of it to exist . Nothing or no one could have been a secondary cause of sin coming into the world if God was not the First cause of that secondary cause !

Scripture teaches that God's Eternal Purpose in Christ is before all things Created Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Col 1:16-17

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

God's Christological Purpose was before Creation, and so God Purposed all things before He Created a thing !

The word purpose means:

to set before one's self, propose to one's self

a) to purpose, determine

the reason for which something exists or is done, made, used, etc.

determination; resoluteness.

God purposed within Himself all things and predestined all things before anything was called into existence, and so anything and anyone with any existence at all, God is the Creation and Cause of it. Nothing or anyone exists apart from God's Purpose and Determination causing them to exist or it to exist, to fulfill His Eternal Purpose and Pleasure ! Sin Death and Wickedness exist for His Pleasure and Purpose !

Rev 4:11

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

 

[JLB]

Is God the Cause of sin and evil in the world ? The answer to the question is absolutely Yes ! All things are made or created for God's good pleasure Rev 4:11

21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.


Turn away from teaching false doctrine.

From saying that Jesus is Michael the Archangel to now this thread!

You are a teacher of False Doctrine.


JLB

 

[John 8:32]

Is God the Cause of sin and evil in the world ? The answer to the question is absolutely Yes ! All things are made or created for God's good pleasure Rev 4:11

21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.


Turn away from teaching false doctrine.

From saying that Jesus is Michael the Archangel to now this thread!

You are a teacher of False Doctrine.


JLB

And yet we read...

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.