Is Hell Real?

[SpagLard]

As for Gehenna,.

Strong's concordance tells us ;

[FONT=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif]Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif]used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.[/FONT]

-figuratively- being the most important word here.

[FONT=Droid Serif,serif]By the time of Jesus, the valley of Hinnom had become a garbage dump for Jerusalem with fires burning constantly to consume the garbage. [/FONT]
[FONT=Droid Serif,serif]However, garbage wasn’t the only thing dumped in the valley. [/FONT]
[FONT=Droid Serif,serif]It has been suggested that the bodies of those so poor they couldn’t afford a proper burial were sometimes dumped in the valley of Hinnom [/FONT]
[FONT=Droid Serif,serif]along with the bodies of some executed criminals whose bodies were not claimed by family. [/FONT]
[FONT=Droid Serif,serif]There the bodies would be consumed by the burning fires. In essence,[/FONT]
[FONT=Droid Serif,serif]to tell someone that their body deserved to end up in the valley of Hinnom meant that you viewed their life to have little meaning or value. [/FONT]
[FONT=Droid Serif,serif]You were basically telling them that the value of their life wasn’t much more than garbage. [/FONT]

[FONT=Droid Serif,serif]To be buried in Hinnom would be disgraceful and knowing this, Jesus says to those listening to him [/FONT]
[FONT=Droid Serif,serif]that they should do all they can in this life to avoid ending up in "Gehenna" or the Valley of Hinnom, the local garbage dump of the time. [/FONT]
[FONT=Droid Serif,serif]When we understand Jesus' words within the culture and context of 1st century Israel, [/FONT]
[FONT=Droid Serif,serif]he isn't telling his listeners that they are going to have to "convert' or "get saved" or they will end up being punished forever in some place of eternal torment called hell. [/FONT]
[FONT=Droid Serif,serif]He is telling them that they need to change the way they are living so that at the end of their lives, [/FONT]
[FONT=Droid Serif,serif]their lives will have been lived with meaning and significance and will warrant an honourable burial as opposed to those who end up in the valley of Hinnom.[/FONT]

When we read the word “hell” or the Greek word Gehenna in Matthew and Mark,
did Jesus actually say hell or Gehenna?
No, he didn’t. He wasn’t speaking English or Greek.
He spoke Hebrew and/or Aramaic so using the Hebrew words,
he said gah-ee Hinnom (the valley of Hinnom) and every one of his audience would have known full well what he was referring to.

Feel free to explain how one can interpret these words (She'ol / Gehenna )
as "A place of eternal damnation / punishment "

 

[Tri Unity]

I loved the comic sincerity of Jonathan Edward's preaching: Sinners in the Hand of an Angry God...

"These shall go away into everlasting punishment", He cried (Matthew 25:46).

Our modern Christian mindset was birthed on this disdain and contempt 'God' has for those utterly wicked humans. It's too late now... this mindset has engulfed the modern churches. I think when the preaching starts in the last days (Rev 14:6; 10:11), it will be the Christians who reject the gospel, and the buddhists, Jews and Muslims will flock to Christ. It will be a repeat of the 1st century... God's people were those who rejected Him; for they were so brainwashed on false ideas that they rejected the Messenger of God. The same thing is likely to happen again, except this time the church will crucify Him.

Revelation 11:8 "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10 And they that dwell on the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelled on the earth."

To the least of these My brethren. A university did some research on Christians to see what they would be capable of doing to other people in the community if they were told it was for the right reason. They got actors to fake that they were being electrocuted by the Christian in a blind study within a prison, and they were told that they were serious criminals who needed rehabilitating by torture. A lot of people volunteered to torture others on someone else's say so. Psychologist's think we are so mentally vulnerable because of how we have been so easily instructed by people who "represent God". It does something to us because we believe so easily morbid and horrible stories of torture and "hellfire". I looked into the abyss... It looked back at me.

 

[Mike]

Before this thread goes too far, it needs to be recognized that the promotion of universalism is against the ToS. Do not take this thread in this direction.

Thank you

 

[jasoncran]

uh theres no idea of"heaven" either in jewish thought if one just reads the tanach. abrahams bosom isnt in heaven but the grave(sheol).

 

[SpagLard]

it needs to be recognized that the promotion of universalism is against the ToS. Do not take this thread in this direction.

dear Mike,
Where in this thread do you see universalism being PROMOTED, and by whom ?

is it because of the following sentence ?

I think when the preaching starts in the last days (Rev 14:6; 10:11), it will be the Christians who reject the gospel, and the buddhists, Jews and Muslims will flock to Christ.

Tri Unity is only quoting someone's opinion,..
you can simply disagree with the opinion.

....it need be recognized that there is a distinguished difference
between offering one's opinion and promoting something.

please keep this thread on-topic, everyone.
I would love to get to the bottom of this :
"Hell, the place of eternal damnation"- misunderstanding.

 

[SpagLard]

uh theres no idea of"heaven" either in jewish thought if one just reads the tanach.

Going by word origin.

"heaven"
שָׁמַיִם shamayim {shaw-mah'-yim} dual of an unused singular שָׁמֶה shameh {shaw-meh'}from an unused root meaning; to be lofty

The usual Hebrew word for "heavens" is shamayim, a plural form meaning "heights," "elevations"

1) heaven, heavens, sky
1a) visible heavens, sky
1a1) as abode of the stars
1a2) as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc
1b) Heaven (as the abode of God)

The heavens and the earth :

Heaven and earth = The sky (firmament "waht's above" ) and the Earth (ground "what is below". )

The "Seven heavens" In Jewish/Hellenist thought have no other base than astrology , they refer to the actual firmament , in which ancient astronomers recognized : "seven heavenly bodies"

The modern English word heaven is derived from the earlier (Middle English) spelling heven (attested 1159); this in turn was developed from the previous Old English form heofon. By c. 1000, heofon was being used in reference to the Christianized "place where God dwells", but originally, it had signified "sky, firmament"[1] (e.g. in Beowulf, c. 725). The English term has cognates in the other Germanic languages: Old Saxon heƀan "sky, heaven", Middle Low German heven "sky", Old Icelandic himinn "sky, heaven", Gothic himins; and those with a variant final -l: Old Frisian himel, himul "sky, heaven", Old Saxon/Old High German himil, Dutch hemel, and modern German Himmel. All of these have been derived from a reconstructed Proto-Germanic form *Hemina-.[2] In many languages, the word for "heaven" is the same as the word for "sky".

Heaven and earth = The sky (firmament "what's above" ) and the Earth (ground "what is below". )

Note also : that "high places" (mount of olives, mount Sinai ,Horeb)
play a significant role in "interacting with the holy:
And that they are quite litterally "heights / lofty places".

When Moses reveived the 10 commandments , he went up the mountain ....
When Chist ascends, Christ ascends "heavenward" up an actual mountain.

Yahweh was traditionally "the God on the Mount"
(Not "The God that dwelled in the unseen realm of bliss and eternal life" )

The Song of Deborah, which some textual scholars consider to be one of the oldest parts of the bible, suggests that Yahweh dwelt at Mount Seir,

-------------------------------------------------------


If anyone doubts my reasoning here,
i challenge them to re-read Genesis from the beginning to where it says

"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them." (Genesis 2:1)

Does God create anything resembling "heaven" as an unseen abode of bliss and eternal life anywhere ? ,
before :

"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them." (Genesis 2:1)

 

[jasoncran]

you might want to think as jews of today define your heaven as the dwelling place of god not where men go that are right with him. my grandparents are jewish and i just buried my grandmother.

since you went there.jerusalem is the place where heaven and the earth met. in neither instance is heaven the place where the dead go.

christians define heaven a bit differently we teach that we go there when we die. jews dont say that alot or at all. i didnt hear that when my uncle and grandparents died. they teach and if i can i will post what i will do soon with pics of awaiting the messiah to return to restore all jews in isreal. the mournes kaddish is mentioned. some jews borrow heaven from chrisitians but that isnt by large the case.

heaven to the jews isnt meant for man. that is what i meant when i said that. grave to the jews is where all go and await the messiah. and that has two places per the parable of lazarus and rich man which was a jewish teaching.

now then christians lay flowers at the graves of their dead,jews place rocks to reming themselves of the messiah bringing them back into the promised land. i will do that for my relatives and post the pics when i do it and tell you what the hebrew inscription means.

 

[felix]

Are you suggesting that everything said in these verses is literal?

(Matt 25:46) "And these will go away into everlasting [G166] punishment, but the righteous into eternal [G166] life."

If you believe everlasting is not forever, so will your eternal life is not forever because in this passage both everlasting and eternal are from [G166 αἰώνιος aionios] spoken by Christ Himself. Why do you want to hear only one side of the coin i.e, everlasting life yet refuse to accept the other side?

 

[SpagLard]

you might want to think as jews of today define your heaven as the dwelling place of god not where men go that are right with him.

I don't WANT to think any particular thing, i go by Scripture.
To be able to decypher scripture accurately,
one essentially needs to study/ know word-origins.

since you went there.jerusalem is the place where heaven and the earth met. in neither instance is heaven the place where the dead go.

I never said heaven is a place where the dead go .
She'ol is where the dead go.

heaven to the jews isnt meant for man. that is what i meant when i said that. grave to the jews is where all go and await the messiah.

This is scripturally sound.

So , going by scripture, heaven can not be Within the believer and also
somewhere other outside of God's creation

(see Genesis 1 and 2 / God does not create any "heaven" other than described earlier by studying the words and what they mean. _ )
(god created "The heavens and the Earth" : meaning the entire then-known universe)

So what is heaven and where is it ?

heaven (the Hebrew is always plural , thus : heavens ) -symbolically- is/are the "Kingdom of God" .

Luke 17:19-21 - When he was asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The Kingdom of God does not come with observation, nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed the Kingdom of God is within you."

Thomas 113 - His disciples said to him, "When will the Kingdom come?", Jesus answered and said, "It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look here!' or 'Look there!'. Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the Earth, and people don't see it!"

It is Inside the true believer ON EARTH..
so it is not a place, or an afterlife,
it is a state of being Faithful and reverent to God.
(Thus "being with God in heaven" _)

 

[felix]

So , going by scripture, heaven can not be Within the believer and also
somewhere other outside of God's creation

(see Genesis 1 and 2 / God does not create any "heaven" other than described earlier by studying the words and what they mean. _ )
(god created "The heavens and the Earth" : meaning the entire then-known universe)

So what is heaven and where is it ?

(John 14:2-3) "In My Father's house are many mansions; if [it were] not [so,] I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, [there] you may be also.

 

[SpagLard]

"In My Father's house are many mansions; if [it were] not [so,] I would have told you.

Felix, you are good at quoting,
but you fail to try to explain what it is you mean to address by your quotes.

How do you explain the quote you just posted ?
what is "My father's house" ? and what are the "mansions" ?

 

[felix]

Felix, you are good at quoting,
but you fail to try to explain what it is you mean to address by your quotes.

How do you explain the quote you just posted ?
what is "My father's house" ? and what are the "mansions" ?

My father's house
The verse means what it means. Father's house is the place where the Father dwells.

• (Matt 5:16) "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
• (Matt 5:48) "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

(tons of other verses as well)

Mansions:
As the verse itself suggests "prepare a place", it is a location which Christ will prepare for us in His Father's house i.e, heaven. Hence, our citizenship is in heaven.
(Phil 3:20-21) For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

You assume there is only one heaven. Actually there are multiple heavens apart from just the physical heaven which we see.

(2Cor 12:2) I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago -- whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows -- such a one was caught up to the third heaven.

Scripture doesn't speak much about describing levels of heaven which was created in Gen 1:1 and their purpose but one day we will understand all. Until then we have a hope that Christ is preparing a special place in heaven for us to rule with Him.

 

[SpagLard]

My father's house


The verse means what it means. Father's house is the place where the Father dwells.

• (Matt 5:16) "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
• (Matt 5:48) "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

(tons of other verses as well)

I Agree with your interpretation. "My Father's house" refers to "heaven"
in other words ; the entire realm / lofty space/ "heights" where God is.

You assume there is only one heaven. Actually there are multiple heavens apart from just the physical heaven which we see.

No i don't assume that. I Take from the ancients and their words that
Hebrews conceptualized SEVEN heavens which refer to :
"The seven then-known heavenly bodies " (sun , moon, and 5 planets.)

As the verse itself suggests "prepare a place", it is a location which Christ will prepare for us in His Father's house

"Place" is not so litteral as "a location" i think.

It is much more likely the state of -Being with God- ..
regardless of where one resides.

IMHO The "place" is in the renewed human heart of the Saved. Those With God.
It is not really a place, but more a "realm / state" of being With God.

A "mansion" or more correctly : Abode / dwelling place "in heaven"

Also ; "in heaven" (the firmament / sky / everywhere God resides)) there are many "houses" /Abodes .

Yes there are many places / stages / dwellings ,..
all are "IN the kingdom of God the Father"

Until then we have a hope that Christ is preparing a special place in heaven for us to rule with Him.

Christ has been long done preparing,..
there is nothing to "wait for" ...
Why is that "special place" Not here and now inside the hearts of Those with God?

Try now reading this while keeping in mind Christ never actually leaves or comes back,
he everso remains in "the house of the Father / heaven " .

And if I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
You know the way to the place where I am going."
Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:3 / John 14:6)

 

[felix]

I Agree with your interpretation. "My Father's house" refers to "heaven"
in other words ; the entire realm / lofty space/ "heights" where God is.

No, not the lofty space alone.

• (Gen 1:1) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
• (Gen 1:6-8) Then God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.

There are 2 heavens even in Genesis alone. The heaven created in Gen 1:1 is not the same heaven in Gen 1:6-8 because, Sun, moon and stars are only inside the newly created firmament called heaven.

No i don't assume that. I Take from the ancients and their words that
Hebrews conceptualized SEVEN heavens which refer to :
"The seven then-known heavenly bodies " (sun , moon, and 5 planets.)

You did assume. Heaven is different from heavenly bodies. When Paul speaks about a person caught up to third heaven, is he mentioning about going to mars or jupiter?

Christ has been long done preparing,..
there is nothing to "wait for" ...
Why is that "special place" Not here and now inside the hearts of Those with God?

Try now reading this while keeping in mind Christ never actually leaves or comes back,
he everso remains in "the house of the Father / heaven " .

• (1Cor 15:50a) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;
• (Mark 14:25) "Assuredly, I say to you, I will no longer drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God."

(Matt 7:21-22) " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'

Kingdom of heaven simply means we are under the rule of Christ. If we are His and the Holy Spirit dwells on us, Kingdom of heaven is within us. But this is not the end of it. Christ will come again and we will truly be with Him in a place He prepared.

(Matt 25:34) "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

 

[Tri Unity]

(Matt 25:46) "And these will go away into everlasting [G166] punishment, but the righteous into eternal [G166] life."

If you believe everlasting is not forever, so will your eternal life is not forever because in this passage both everlasting and eternal are from [G166 αἰώνιος aionios] spoken by Christ Himself. Why do you want to hear only one side of the coin i.e, everlasting life yet refuse to accept the other side?

Why do you make all of these assumptions about what I believe?

 

[felix]

Why do you make all of these assumptions about what I believe?

Because you said the verses I quoted are not literal.

Sent from mobile.

 

[Down Yokel]

All this talk about figuritive language etc is starting to fall into the realms of liberalism. Lets start with scriptures. I'll start with one. Someone mentioned about tartaros being mythological. I don't care where the word got it's origins. It is a word according to the lexicons that means the abode of the damned. Now let me make this point first. That is, that ALL scripture is given by the holy spirit.

2 Peter 1 v 19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Now go read the context and it is plain as day that Peter is telling us that all scripture is gods words, not the authors as that would be their ( private interpretation )

Now if that same man who says that, writes " For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment" and uses the word tartaros to do it, then to say he is mistaken, or using mythology is to say the holy spirit is wrong or inaccurate and I'm afraid I can't accept that. I don't care what history or any man tells me. If the new testament is reliable, and according to the swats, and what I've read, it is. Then I'll rather believe God than try to read into the passage something that is arrived at by mans intellect.

I'm not making out that the bible is perfect. I believe that bible IS gods word, however no translation is perfect but the resources I have say these passages are true. Now if someone wants o exegete the passage to tell me that it's wrong and can do it scripturally. Then I'm all ears.

As for the various words of all the different so called hells , well , the fact is, anyone who dies without Christ WILL go to hell/hades to the compartment of torment. The compartment that was paradise is empty as the lord led captivity captive. Those people are now in heaven.

Tartaros, as far as I can tell is for some of the devils angels, or demons if you prefer who were so wicked that they are reserved in chains until judgement.
Jude 6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day

Now as for those in hades who are not saved, they will be resurrected and be judged then it says death and he'll will be cast into the lake of fire forever, infinitely worse than hell ever was.

Now if you want to well me I'm wrong, let's do it by scripture. I mean, I can demonstrate a few textual problems here and there, that can be fixed by going to the original languages and I'm all up for discussion that is bible based. And God knows, Im up for finding out the truth and am willing to learn new things. But don't try and tell me that mythology says, or whatever. That's like me saying I know that the musilims talk about heaven, the Muslims heaven is mythology, therefore the bible is wrong. That's nonsense.

I also know about the valley of hinom, (spelling) and I agree, judgement could take place there , and I can see the point of the argument for that being the lake of fire. But if this world is to be burned up before the new heavens and the new earth come about, then it can hardly be eternal. In which case you have to show me from the bible that it doesn't really mean forever. And I don't think anyone can do it.

I finish with a story I heard once. D.l moody met a man he went to seminary with and hadn't seen him for years. On asking how he was theologically , he said that he no longer believed in hell. Moody pointed to him and said " there is unspeakable sin in your life" and there was.

Maybe we should all try and face the reallity of he'll and get a fire lit and a desire to reach the lost who may be headed there and stop the whole Idea of figurative thinking. If a passage in scripture is figurative THE CONTEXT MAKES IT CLEAR.

So again, if your going to say my view is incorrect, show me how from scripture. And if you are right, you have my thanks. But if im right, see that unsaved friend of yours, are you going to have enough reason now to plant the seeds of the gospel on their conscience?

 

[Down Yokel]

Appologise for spelling etc, but as some of you know, I don't get much time and inpm usually knaclered when I'm on, so although I'm sorry, it will continue

 

[felix]

All this talk about figuritive language etc is starting to fall into the realms of liberalism. Lets start with scriptures. I'll start with one. Someone mentioned about tartaros being mythological. I don't care where the word got it's origins. It is a word according to the lexicons that means the abode of the damned. Now let me make this point first. That is, that ALL scripture is given by the holy spirit.

2 Peter 1 v 19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Now go read the context and it is plain as day that Peter is telling us that all scripture is gods words, not the authors as that would be their ( private interpretation )

Now if that same man who says that, writes " For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment" and uses the word tartaros to do it, then to say he is mistaken, or using mythology is to say the holy spirit is wrong or inaccurate and I'm afraid I can't accept that. I don't care what history or any man tells me. If the new testament is reliable, and according to the swats, and what I've read, it is. Then I'll rather believe God than try to read into the passage something that is arrived at by mans intellect.

I'm not making out that the bible is perfect. I believe that bible IS gods word, however no translation is perfect but the resources I have say these passages are true. Now if someone wants o exegete the passage to tell me that it's wrong and can do it scripturally. Then I'm all ears.

As for the various words of all the different so called hells , well , the fact is, anyone who dies without Christ WILL go to hell/hades to the compartment of torment. The compartment that was paradise is empty as the lord led captivity captive. Those people are now in heaven.

Tartaros, as far as I can tell is for some of the devils angels, or demons if you prefer who were so wicked that they are reserved in chains until judgement.
Jude 6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day

Now as for those in hades who are not saved, they will be resurrected and be judged then it says death and he'll will be cast into the lake of fire forever, infinitely worse than hell ever was.

Now if you want to well me I'm wrong, let's do it by scripture. I mean, I can demonstrate a few textual problems here and there, that can be fixed by going to the original languages and I'm all up for discussion that is bible based. And God knows, Im up for finding out the truth and am willing to learn new things. But don't try and tell me that mythology says, or whatever. That's like me saying I know that the musilims talk about heaven, the Muslims heaven is mythology, therefore the bible is wrong. That's nonsense.

I also know about the valley of hinom, (spelling) and I agree, judgement could take place there , and I can see the point of the argument for that being the lake of fire. But if this world is to be burned up before the new heavens and the new earth come about, then it can hardly be eternal. In which case you have to show me from the bible that it doesn't really mean forever. And I don't think anyone can do it.

I finish with a story I heard once. D.l moody met a man he went to seminary with and hadn't seen him for years. On asking how he was theologically , he said that he no longer believed in hell. Moody pointed to him and said " there is unspeakable sin in your life" and there was.

Maybe we should all try and face the reallity of he'll and get a fire lit and a desire to reach the lost who may be headed there and stop the whole Idea of figurative thinking. If a passage in scripture is figurative THE CONTEXT MAKES IT CLEAR.

So again, if your going to say my view is incorrect, show me how from scripture. And if you are right, you have my thanks. But if im right, see that unsaved friend of yours, are you going to have enough reason now to plant the seeds of the gospel on their conscience?

Well said!

In Tamil it is called naragam and in sanskrit naraka. The Tamil Bibles translated gehena as naragam which is well understood by a Tamil reader. Just because Hindus also have naragam in their mythology, does that mean naragam in Bible is a myth? Yet, many Christians what to believe hell fire with torments of flame as a myth.

 

[Tri Unity]

Because you said the verses I quoted are not literal.

I didn't say that there is no eternal punishment; I said that the meaning of eternal punishment is not literal. I believe that the description of "eternal punishment" was meant to be taken as a metaphor. I don't believe that this eternal punishment is literally a place where fire is eternal and human bodies live inside that fire eternally along with the worm. I do not believe in eternal annihilation or universal salvation either. You do not even understand my position. You have twisted my words right out of context based on assumptions.