"is it possible to have a successful marriage without a "leader"?

[Christ_empowered]

Maybe we just disagree on terminology. I think a man can be perfectly masculine (according to how God wants men to be) and still be emotional or whatever without having a "feminine side," just like I think women can do sports or business or whatever without having a "masculine side."

 

[jasoncran]

very few women wrestile on that note. men are built for hard work,women arent.

we dont need hormones to build muscles, women will build some but the estrogen in them will fight that.we carry more muscle mass and blood and bone density in general of course.

 

[childeye]

Maybe we just disagree on terminology. I think a man can be perfectly masculine (according to how God wants men to be) and still be emotional or whatever without having a "feminine side," just like I think women can do sports or business or whatever without having a "masculine side."

If this post is addressing my comments, this is my response. If it is not please disregard.

You are right. We are not talking about the same things. I am using the spiritual terms of He\ she as in one was made from the other. I would have much more edifying things to say in this thread, but I cannot do so since no one seems to understand this simple phenomeon. Such understanding is foundationally necessary to be able to build upon Godly Truth, so as to apprehend true comprehension regarding gender based discussions.

 

[Rhea]

Fair enough.



This doesn't surprise me at all. Mainly because, even when non-Christians and unbelievers live according to God's standards...(albeit for different reasons)...the blessings that come naturally follow.

[...]

It's more that I think that God has placed within His creations universal truths that when followed, will bring about consequences.
[...]

The natural consequence of mutual humility and respect in a marriage is a strong, love filled, successful marriage

But don't you find this true for any enterprise at all?

If you humble your own ego versus the entity that is shared, then the entity will be more successful. A business partnership, an artists' coop, a homeowners' association, a marriage, a church, even.

If you can say, "I know I want the homeowners' coop to run according to MY plan, but if I humble myself to remember that the association itself (the cooperation of all these people to build a solid neighborhood) is what's more important than my individual plan, then the association will be more successful."

I use this same line of thought with my kids when we talk about interrupting and distraction in a conversation. "Kids, you need to respect the idea of conversation in order to have successful conversations. You have to listen to others, pay attention, not interrupt. If you do interrupt and get distracted, the conversations will end in frustration and anger. If you do those things, you are thinking only of your own wants and needs, and the conversation will never be a cooperative enterprise and will not succeed. I'm not saying you need to start with respecting me, I'm saying you need to start with respecting conversation as an enterprise in and of itself, then respect for your fellow conversationalist will naturally follow."

So I find this respect for an enterprise as a third partner will create success in nearly any case that it's used, not just marriage.

A good example of what I'm getting at is the "Golden Rule" a truth so universal that many of the world's religions, atheists and agnostics follow the dictum of "Treat others the way you want to be treated". The natural consequence of following the Golden Rule is better interpersonal relationships.
.

An interesting note, the golden rule, having been around since long before Jesus, printed variously by Confucius, Solon, and others, has indeed been a manifestation of this since very early in civilized history. Sometimes it's written in the negative, "don't do to others what you wouldn't want the to do to you" which turns out to be useful because it still works even if you don't "want done" the same things, you still often share an idea of what you don't want done!

 

[Rhea]

very few women wrestile on that note. men are built for hard work,women arent.

we dont need hormones to build muscles, women will build some but the estrogen in them will fight that.we carry more muscle mass and blood and bone density in general of course.

I consider this to be a false argument since it only works among the very edges of the bell curve. If you are claiming that EVERY man is stronger and harder working than ANY woman, then your conclusion would make sense. However, it is not true that NO woman is stronger than ANY man. Hence, the man-or-womanness of the worker is secondary to how they actually work.

By your logic, only black people should be in running clubs or road races, since they tend to be better runners. It's a stupid argument. You can show that the very top runners tend to be people who are black, but it would be foolish to say that now every single running position should be reserved for them. We can obviously see many people who are black who are weak runners, and many people who are white or asian or western native who are good runners and could kick the dust on the majority of the black population.

So comparing the top end of the strength curve and concluding a "better" gender at strength is equally useless. IMHO.

 

[jasoncran]

gotta love these types.

ok when you can without any suppliments bench 300 lbs like some man who dont take them then talk, to do that in general most women have to take them.

i said in general note all.
what is the average weight of american women that are heathly probably less 130 lbs on average.

given that size could they do what i am required to do. wear my gear that weigh close to 100 lbs and carry it?few can that is why there not in the actual line units. the marines have them and those few and i mean few can do that. its real rare.

and heres the thing .

my wife being that she had to work hard. has two shoulder surgeries. one worked then she reinjured it. at the ripe young age 44. was the first surgery . the docs said that these types of injuries are more common amongst men. and you are right blacks do excel at sports. they are better at them.

i guess i will right congress so that men should carry child. we dont need women do we. they want equality and i'm all for that sit back and let them tear their joints apart. have at it. dont ask me to feel for you when you need that hip replacement at 30.

i have a canadian friend who is younger then me and has two knee replacements and a hip replacement and is an aircraft mechanic. pulls her weight and while i respect her she admits that is the cost she pays.

so i should just go full bore on any female fighter and target breasts if they leave them open? which i have done that as pay back for groin kicks.

fair is fair in love and war.oh we had a good female fighter,she could handle herself and make men cry, teens found that out when they tried her. i laughed but she couldnt wrestle men my size(yes in training theres no weight limits and i have some that i cant wrestle that arent able to control their weight just yet) her ribs per doc are to easily dislocatable. she had a rib that pull out of its cartilage and that is birth defect and it would take surgery to repair. so she cant wrestle men that out weigh her by 20 lbs and she wasnt a chump. i say that in respect. i know in stand up(tai boxing she could take me out)

so please dont give me that line a women can do what a man can do. my wife has done what i have done as she had to and now has paid for it. her back is shot and also her joints. her doctors told her that!
cleaning houses isnt so nice on the back plus the painting and other things such as masonry and what not that she did before she met me. she cant do that much anymore. she paints at her pace now.

 

[Rhea]

so please dont give me that line a women can do what a man can do. my wife has done what i have done as she had to and now has paid for it. her back is shot and also her joints. her doctors told her that!
cleaning houses isnt so nice on the back plus the painting and other things such as masonry and what not that she did before she met me. she cant do that much anymore. she paints at her pace now.

You have missed my point entirely.

Not sure why on a thread about leaders in a marriage you added comments about how all men are stronger than any woman, but at any rate, you have missed my entire point. I will drop it since it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of cooperation in marriages.

 

[jasoncran]

You have missed my point entirely.

Not sure why on a thread about leaders in a marriage you added comments about how all men are stronger than any woman, but at any rate, you have missed my entire point. I will drop it since it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of cooperation in marriages.

in general(i said in general there are exceptions) so being the equal partner and my wife when she was my age i should just let her lift the heavy objects and do nothing or get men to assist?

i prefer the later if able to get men. that was my point. yes there are exceptions but i wouldnt ask my wife to do those things i do, oh she does have a basic understanding of cars(dad raced and taught her not to depend on a man for things, which these days is needed to be taught) oh women play men on these things, i see it at work.

my wife has helped years ago replace a fuel tank on her car, she paid for that the next day. when her ranger broke down i got the pump and had a fellow employee or rather manager of another dept on my job asssist me on my fuel pump since i had to take the bed off the truck. its easier that way then to drop the tank since syphoning isnt easy on the ranger.

so yes there are women who can handle the hard jobs, and what you dont think that women do these things around the house. i am not adept at painting my wife is she painted each and every room at her pace. her choice to do so. but she doesnt work so she did what she could.


this site wont let me post pics. i have four of the works that my wife did do on facebook.

 

[Rhea]

in general(i said in general there are exceptions) so being the equal partner and my wife when she was my age i should just let her lift the heavy objects and do nothing or get men to assist?

This has nothing to do at all with what I am talking about in a marriage that does not require one person to arbitrarily be designated "the leader".

However, in my experience, when people encounter something they cannot handle, they can ask for help, or they can use tools. But most will be perfectly qualified. To arbitrarily say they are not qualified because of "generalities" is a careless waste of potential.

I'm sensing that the reason you are saying this is because you think that men being "always better" able to "lead" a marriage is equivalent to men being "always better" at lifting things.

There is no evidence (at all) that men are "always better" at leading. And the evidence that men are "always better" at lifting is ridiculously overstated. The bell curve overlaps by a great large amount. Many women can out-lift many men. AND the idea that every thing that needs lifting occupies that spot larger than women can lift but smaller than men's limit is equally spurious. When I need to lift something larger than I can handle, I either ask for help or I use a lever.

Here's the point again:

If there is ANY ONE WOMAN who can beat ANY ONE MAN at lifting a thing, then it is a careless waste of potential to say that it is gender and not lifting ability that determines who will get the lifting job. As long as there is a single man who cannot lift something that a single woman can lift, it is a false, careless, and idiotic restriction to use any measure other than lifting ability to judge lifting ability.

Are we so careless and lacking discernment that we have to bucket people by gender instead of lifting ability?

But again I have gone off topic. This thread IS NOT ABOUT whether men or women make better leaders. It IS ABOUT whether a pre-designated leader is needed at all in a marriage.

So any assertion that men are inherently better than women at anything is missing the point.

 

[jasoncran]

its indeed by God's designed both handy and danus have stated that.

ever heard of delegating authority? doesnt the president do that. ultimately when any of his cabinet members(sectaries of state, defense,etc) make mistakes it reflects on him first. its no different in a marriage.

your reasoning saying the cabinet is a president one day and the president switches. no the president is always in charge the cabinets. they are tasked to run that department but must ultimately answer to him.