Is Jesus FULLY God & Praying

[Randy]

Read Rev..... Jesus said I am Alpha and Omega....... the first and Last...... keep reading Rev 1 the first born of the dead, the first resurrected. I see no creation date for Jesus anywhere though. He has always been, always was, and always will be. All references to begotten are tied to him coming from Mary in child birth but here long before and always here.



Mike.

I have no problem with your belief. I think you are mistaken.

And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the origin[a] of God’s creation:

[a]Or beginning

Some assumptions have to be made. A firstborn has a beginning. Jesus has his own spirit as He stated to His God on the cross "Father into your hand s I commit my spirit" I only hold to One God the Father and One Lord Jesus Christ.

R.

 

[Brother Mike]

I have no problem with your belief. I think you are mistaken.

And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the origin[a] of God’s creation:

That's fine Randy, at least your looking at it and weighing it. We don't have to agree, I just don't believe Jesus as (a spirit) was created. I believe He was the firstborn of the dead, and the first begotten of the father (born by the spoken word in Mary's womb) where we are born by the Word through what Jesus did.

As long as we are open and are willing to look at something, then it's all good. That is how we learn, and get more firm or get some correction in something we did not see.

Blessings.

Mike.

 

[MarkT]

Note in the first two quotes the bolded parts, which show you believe in polytheism, which clearly goes against Scripture. This is all a repeat for which I am still looking for a response:

Jesus explained his relationship to the Father and you still can not see. The Father and the Son are One. The Father in the Son and the Son in the Father. But they are not equal. The Father is the true God. The Father gives the Son what to say. The Son can not do anything on his own except what he sees the Father doing. The same relationship exists in the Old Testament. The Father gives the LORD what to say. The Father sends the LORD to Abraham. Abraham seeing the LORD thinks he is seeing God Almighty. But Jesus said Abraham saw his Day. But the Father gave Jesus what to say. So the Father is saying Abraham saw Jesus, his Day. The Father sent the LORD to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. The LORD appeared as a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. The Father is the true God of Israel. He is the one who sent the LORD. The LORD is the one by whom the Father created everything. The LORD was the workman. Was the LORD the God of Israel? Technically yes because the Father and the Son are one. They even have the same name.

 

[MarkT]

Was he fully a man and that's it? If I say that Jesus was God am I actually dismissing "what he said about himself with respect to the Father"?

Yes. You never quote Jesus. Why is that?

Your position is contradictory. You cannot rationally hold to a position which states that Jesus is only a man and that we cannot say he is God, and yet states that he is God, much less the God of Israel but not the one true God.

Do I think he was only a man. No. He was the Christ, the Son of the living God. In that sense I wouldn't even call him human.

 

[By Grace]

urk, if jesus is human that well makes him less then a god. he cant be human. he was never only human in the first place. we cant worship a human.

The term, "HYPOSTATIC UNION" is used to indicate that Jesus remains one Divine Person having two distinct natures. He is100% human, and 100% God without any mixture or confusing of either nature.

Perhaps you may want to do a web search on that term.

 

[Guest]

urk, if jesus is human that well makes him less then a god. he cant be human. he was never only human in the first place. we cant worship a human.

he was the only perfect human and god deity.
please use @urk to msg me, ty sir.
was his blood not red.

View attachment 3370

 

[jasoncran]

urk, if jesus is human that well makes him less then a god. he cant be human. he was never only human in the first place. we cant worship a human.

The term, "HYPOSTATIC UNION" is used to indicate that Jesus remains one Divine Person having two distinct natures. He is100% human, and 100% God without any mixture or confusing of either nature.

Perhaps you may want to do a web search on that term.

what does the word ONLY human mean? I said he was never ONLY human. there is no air in heaven,no food., no water, those are metaphors. sheesh.

for the record I do believe in the hypostatic union but if he is still human then he still is a hunger, and a thirst and must move bowels. get it!?
john's vision show something about jesus other then a human.eyes like flames? a sword from his mouth. and the other visions.

 

[JCitoL]

as a general rule it would be better if the prayer is directed to God the Father in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, because exactly God the Father is the absolutely all-powerful, while Jesus is the second in the Heavenly hierarchy after Him

Blessings

 

[Randy]

urk, if jesus is human that well makes him less then a god. he cant be human. he was never only human in the first place. we cant worship a human.

The term, "HYPOSTATIC UNION" is used to indicate that Jesus remains one Divine Person having two distinct natures. He is100% human, and 100% God without any mixture or confusing of either nature.

Perhaps you may want to do a web search on that term.

I thought JESUS (the head of the Body of Christ) taught that we (Christians) would be one with Jesus as He and the Father are One. As far as I know while I am a new creation I am still me. What all but the Son lack is that Jesus has the Fullness of the Deity only the Firstborn was given and I think it is self evident that it was the Father who was pleased to have all HIS (Only God) fullness dwell in the HIS Firstborn Son. And Gods Firstborn would state something along these lines as such a being is ancient of days. "Before Abraham was born I AM."


John 17 (shows the Father defined Jesus's being)


The glory that you have given me I have given them, so that they may be one, as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become completely one, so that the world may know that you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

One God in All.

Its clear to me the Jesus that was occupied that human body. And while Jesus shared our weaknesses of the flesh the Father was still in Him. Also of note is Jesus was without sin which shows He wasn't a slave to sin. The One in Jesus is greater than the one in this world and Jesus overcame the world for us as a servant.

As Jesus taught anyone who sins is a slave to sin unless the Son sets them free. And as it is written the One in us is greater than the one in this world.

 

[WIP]

There are no "people" in the Trinity. People are humans

But scripture said he lowered himself to the likeness of men. Did Jesus not partake in human suffering on the cross. Was his blood not red.

Is Jesus human today?

Yes he is. Wouldn't he have to be to be the intercessor for humanity. Notice the word human in the word "humanity". If he wasn't human he wouldn't be very good at his job and know the desires of our hearts.

urk, if jesus is human that well makes him less then a god. he cant be human. he was never only human in the first place. we cant worship a human.

I think the Bible gives us the answer, am I right?

Matthew 1:23
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

 

[Sparkey]

urk, if jesus is human that well makes him less then a god. he cant be human. he was never only human in the first place. we cant worship a human.

Substitute the word "man" for "human' and check yourself, please. Jesus came in the flesh. That can not reasonably mean he wasn't (isn't) human.

But perhaps I'm not following well. That happens. One question came up earlier:

Is Jesus human today?

That could be the basis for my misunderstanding because I know you are not saying that Jesus did not come in the flesh. We do not know what we shall be but we shall be like him. Right?

 

[Sparkey]

Jesus died. He was born. He died. He is a man.

He was raised from the dead and is alive. It is not enough to say that Jesus was a spirit upon his resurrection. He was raised from the dead physically. Luke 24:39; 1Cor 15:14. A "spirit" resurrection is not a resurrection of the body and without the resurrection of the body of Christ, death has not been conquered and our faith would be in vain.

Jesus' resurrected body was a glorified body.
Jesus rose from the dead physically in the same body in which He died. But, what kind of a body was this physical body in which He rose? Was it subject to death again? Would it grow tired or grow old? The Bible tells us about the resurrected body, of which all Christians will receive in the future. (1 Cor. 15:35,40-49)

Jesus is a man in a glorified body.
I am not saying that Jesus was only a man. But to deny that he is a man or to say that he is not human goes against what the Bible declares true. Jesus was raised from the dead in the same body in which He died. He showed his body to his disciples and even went as far as to have Thomas assure himself of the fact that it was truly him by inviting him to put his fingers into the wound. There is no place where it states that Jesus stopped being a man. If anything the Bible declares the exact opposite: see 1Tim 2:5. Col 2:9 was written well after his ascension and speaks in the present tense: "in him dwells..."

Read Luke 24:39.

 

[jasoncran]

Jesus died. He was born. He died. He is a man.

He was raised from the dead and is alive. It is not enough to say that Jesus was a spirit upon his resurrection. He was raised from the dead physically. Luke 24:39; 1Cor 15:14. A "spirit" resurrection is not a resurrection of the body and without the resurrection of the body of Christ, death has not been conquered and our faith would be in vain.

Jesus' resurrected body was a glorified body.
Jesus rose from the dead physically in the same body in which He died. But, what kind of a body was this physical body in which He rose? Was it subject to death again? Would it grow tired or grow old? The Bible tells us about the resurrected body, of which all Christians will receive in the future. (1 Cor. 15:35,40-49)

Jesus is a man in a glorified body.
I am not saying that Jesus was only a man. But to deny that he is a man or to say that he is not human goes against what the Bible declares true. Jesus was raised from the dead in the same body in which He died. He showed his body to his disciples and even went as far as to have Thomas assure himself of the fact that it was truly him by inviting him to put his fingers into the wound. There is no place where it states that Jesus stopped being a man. If anything the Bible declares the exact opposite: see 1Tim 2:5. Col 2:9 was written well after his ascension and speaks in the present tense: "in him dwells..."

Read Luke 24:39.

ok a body has limits by a shape. the bible also says he dwells in us. how can he be in a human shape in heaven not needing food, air? and sleep, water?God is also refered as a he, a he implies manhood if we want to go there.he also is described AS HAVING ARMS, A FACE AND ALSO other features we have. its called the anthropic for a reason. jesus did take a form yes when he came back but that form also was a bit different. wounds that should still bled and healed didn't. he also could move through walls and appear as he willed. yet he didn't have a blood.

god the father is a spirit, the son was a spirit till he came to the earth. if he has shape then he cant be everywhere at the same time. shapes have limits.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Free]

Note in the first two quotes the bolded parts, which show you believe in polytheism, which clearly goes against Scripture. This is all a repeat for which I am still looking for a response:

Jesus explained his relationship to the Father and you still can not see. The Father and the Son are One. The Father in the Son and the Son in the Father. But they are not equal. The Father is the true God. The Father gives the Son what to say. The Son can not do anything on his own except what he sees the Father doing. The same relationship exists in the Old Testament. The Father gives the LORD what to say. The Father sends the LORD to Abraham. Abraham seeing the LORD thinks he is seeing God Almighty. But Jesus said Abraham saw his Day. But the Father gave Jesus what to say. So the Father is saying Abraham saw Jesus, his Day. The Father sent the LORD to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. The LORD appeared as a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. The Father is the true God of Israel. He is the one who sent the LORD. The LORD is the one by whom the Father created everything. The LORD was the workman. Was the LORD the God of Israel? Technically yes because the Father and the Son are one. They even have the same name.

But you said Jesus was the true God of Israel. Now you're saying the Father is the true God of Israel? So who is the true God of Israel? Both?

"Technically yes"? Either the LORD is the God of Israel or he is not. Do you even realize that "LORD" is the typical English translation of YHWH, the name of the one true God? According to your position then, the LORD necessarily is the Father. How then can the Father send another who is himself?

Was he fully a man and that's it? If I say that Jesus was God am I actually dismissing "what he said about himself with respect to the Father"?

Yes. You never quote Jesus. Why is that?

I haven't needed to. We are dealing with Phil 2. Are you suggesting that Paul's writing is inferior to Jesus' words?

Your position is still very contradictory. You really need to clear all this up before there can be any meaningful discussion on this topic.

 

[Sparkey]

the bible also says he dwells in us

Jason? We know that we have the mind of Christ and understand that even the term "Christ" refers to the Anointing, and we understand that The Comforter, the Holy Spirit infills. I don't know of any Scripture that suggests that Jesus, in his physical form, in his glorified body, has yet returned to earth. We know he will though.

 

[Free]

There are no "people" in the Trinity. People are humans

But scripture said he lowered himself to the likeness of men. Did Jesus not partake in human suffering on the cross. Was his blood not red.

Is Jesus human today?

Everything seems to suggest that Jesus is still the God-man:

1Co 15:12 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised.
1Co 15:14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.
...
1Co 15:20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
...
1Co 15:35 But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?"
1Co 15:36 You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
1Co 15:37 And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain.
1Co 15:38 But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body.
...
1Co 15:42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable.
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
...
1Co 15:48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.
1Co 15:49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. (ESV)

Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Php 3:21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself. (ESV)

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. (ESV)

 

[Brother Mike]

Jason? We know that we have the mind of Christ and understand that even the term "Christ" refers to the Anointing, and we understand that The Comforter, the Holy Spirit infills. I don't know of any Scripture that suggests that Jesus, in his physical form, in his glorified body, has yet returned to earth. We know he will though.

Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

ummm. One would think that a new body might be patched up a bit better than leaving the holes in the hands and side. Then again, Jesus just shows up in the room so he has ability that is pretty amazing.

Have to send the Jury out on this one, they might not get back........................ for a long time.

Mike.

 

[jasoncran]

we are NOT temples of the holy ghost. but of God [MENTION=13142]Sparrowhawke[/MENTION]. we are temples and that is also what well I could go into the jewish belief that third temple wont be a building but a fleshly temple with God being in us. abide, what does that mean?

I don't pretend do know what the new body will be but I do think we will not have blood anymore.

 

[jasoncran]

the bible also says he dwells in us

Jason? We know that we have the mind of Christ and understand that even the term "Christ" refers to the Anointing, and we understand that The Comforter, the Holy Spirit infills. I don't know of any Scripture that suggests that Jesus, in his physical form, in his glorified body, has yet returned to earth. We know he will though.

he ate did he not? he a hungered. if that he did as a man and he did eat in his new form then how exactly can he still be in a fleshly/god mix?

 

[Free]

we are NOT temples of the holy ghost. but of God

1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, (ESV)

I don't pretend do know what the new body will be but I do think we will not have blood anymore.

I see no reason to believe that we won't have blood.