Is Jesus FULLY God & Praying

[Guest]

God is a spirit, he exists in the spirit realm. John 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth. The Holy Spirit is called that for a reason, because the spirit of God is holy. [MENTION=47381]reba[/MENTION] awesome. ;)

 

[Brother Mike]

God is thee number one man in my life

I have heard the Gender argument, but every time He has spoken to me, He did not sound like anything Female. Women that tell me they have heard the Lord said He sounds perfectly male to them.

Mike.

 

[reba]

To even argue a gender point is just plain ol silly...

Added : this is off topic.... totopic

Is Jesus FULLY God & Praying

In this thread, I would like to focus specifically on the word 'FULLY'. Fully means entirely or wholly. ALL of you! So if Jesus was fully God, he wouldn't of had to pray to the Father to raise Lazarus. Saying that Jesus is fully God is foolish of us, and I'll tell you why. When a born again Christian receives the Holy Spirit, he's not receiving ALL of the Father, no. He's receiving only a portion. That portion is called the Holy Spirit. Jesus is not FULLY God, but rather he is the WAY to God.

Yes, Jesus is the only way to God the Father, but scripture never says that Jesus is in fact THE God the Father. Jesus is the intercessor BETWEEN God the Father and humanity. Notice I said between stating two different parties, God the Father and humanity. God the Father isn't the intercessor between himself and humanity, no. Jesus has an entirely separate role to play. God the Father is the creator, and Jesus is the intercessor. Creator/Intercessor/Two different roles. When you pray, do you pray to God the Father or Jesus?​

 

[Guest]

Another question I have that is important is that, who do we pray too..God the Father, Jesus or the HS?

 

[reba]

Luk 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Joh_14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Jud_1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

1Jn_5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[Guest]

Ty! I almost forgot the sermon on the mount. blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

God is a male and thus must have a personhood to have a gender. this doesn't mean that god is human or the reverse.

Male? Why put a gender on a spirit, spirit realm. Why not say the personhood is just simply, 'deity'.

well ask god that when met HIM. God refers to himself as a he. its for communication to men so that we can understand how he acts. unless you want to argue that God the father is really god the mother.

What about God's communication to born again christian women.

irrevalant. jesus the groom, the church is the bride.with only one execption.that is to show how he works. remember in those men, not women, went to war, became kings, decided whom was heir to the family land. protected and provided.yes women did work the fields,and did that proverbs 31 thing but God meets us where we are at.

 

[Guest]

well ask god that when met HIM. God refers to himself as a he. its for communication to men so that we can understand how he acts. unless you want to argue that God the father is really god the mother.

What about God's communication to born again christian women.

irrevalant. jesus the groom, the church is the bride.with only one execption.that is to show how he works. remember in those men, not women, went to war, became kings, decided whom was heir to the family land. protected and provided.yes women did work the fields,and did that proverbs 31 thing but God meets us where we are at.

totopic

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

My guess it's this word "god" and it has a religious meaning that gets embedded to mean things it does not.

This is very likely to be the case not only for the issue at hand in this discussion, but also most other religious and political topics. As people, our default positions and beliefs are rarely brought under the microscope for questioning. They are simply accepted as fact and we find ways to rationalize the data and facts we are later presented with to reinforce our perspectives. We've got to do a better job of critical thinking and questioning the 'givens' we almost naturally assume.

who do we pray too..God the Father, Jesus or the HS?

It would appear that God (aka The Father) is referenced in scripture as the only one to whom prayers are directed to. In the NT, it seems that the message is that saints and believers are able to approach The Father because of Jesus (in Jesus name based on the authority The Father gave His Christ) John 14:6 and Ephesians 3:12.

No pasages that I can think of at the moment instructs or demonstrates that prayer is to be directed at anyone but The Father (God). As a matter of fact, the most commonly quoted Trinity texts Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7 are not generally accepted as being in the original Biblical manuscripts and are thought to be spurious additions to what was actually written and originally taught.
http://2001translation.com/FIRST_JOHN.htm#_1_John_5:7
http://2001translation.com/MATTHEW.htm#_name

 

[Free]

Is the word manifested different from the word created? Interesting.

Good question. If we remove any thought about a Trinity Doctrine and we just understand the Word as we normally would. That might help, instead of taking one scripture and making it something it's not.
Every other time I read God declared, or God said, it would mean it is coming to pass in the future at some point. We see that over and over.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Here we see the Word was made flesh. The Word became something just like all the other times God had spoken. In this case the Word Begotten Jesus, born from Mary. What God said came to pass.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

This tells us that Jesus is not the literal Word or part of God that is the Word, but it was something God hath declared that came to pass and the Word was made flesh, who came from Mary.

It isn't quite clear what you're saying here. It seems as though you are saying verse 18 is stating that God, the Father, is declaring the Son. Is that correct?

 

[Free]

Secondly, is there something wrong with the definition of the doctrine of the Trinity that I gave? What do you disagree with?

Thirdly, you have not explained your contradictory position. You say that there is only one God, that God says there are no other Gods, yet you claim there are two.

I understand. It's not against there is One God concept. God said there are no other Gods. I read that a bit different however.

Foundation One: Monotheism: There Is Only One God.
Foundation Two: There Are Three Divine Persons.
Foundation Three: The Persons Are Coequal and Coeternal.

This understanding makes Jesus a Divine Person, Equal with the other persons, Father and Holy Spirit. In respect to function each person plays a very important role. So Jesus saying my Father is greater Is a statement I don't see as proving Jesus was claiming to be lesser because without Him, we would be lost. However, I do see the statement as a Son who honors His Father.

It's the 3 Divine persons, or some say 3, each one God makes One God. We already admit we have 3 different persons, that all have different functions. How do we come up with just One God though? That is the part that don't make sense by Trinity's Definition. It's like saying John, Susan, Mary and Steve make up the A-team. Each is a person with a function that make up what is known as the A-team.

So God or the term God is no longer a person but a team being made of 3 different Divine persons. If the bible clearly defined "God" meaning Team then I am sold. However, the bible uses the Term god in a generic way and not team. So, something must be wrong with they way the Trinity Doctrine is conceived (Being different versions pointing to One God) Or I just don't get it.

God being only One who created all things. No other maker or creator mentioned, no other gods created. devils are refered to as gods (False god's) Jesus called us gods, Satan is called god. So I have to understand that there is only ONE Father, One creator who nobody else would have that Role. Jesus is the Son by whom all things were created, His role, but no creator. That is scripture and I can give 4 verses. The Holy Spirit belongs to God, because every single scripture God takes ownership of Him. Not that He is God, or that He is his own person but belongs to God. That is also scripture in many places.
In fact the Holy Spirit does not even speak on His own, if He was God he would, but He only speaks of what He hears. So I have to leave him out of this "GOD" Equation anyway.

Israel defined God as one with many different things God was to them. The healer, the provider, the protector and so on. They did not factor in Jesus but knew God has a Spirit that came on them. As believers in Jesus we factor in that God sent his son in the last days to speak to us. A divine person, yes, but not needed to make up a god, unless God is a Team concept and not a person concept.

I would need to see God defined as a team concept in the Word. If I missed that then show me because I still don't get it when looking at scriptures. If it is a Team concept then it makes more sense.

Blessings.
Mike.

These points form the basis for the definition of the Trinity I have given:

1. The Bible shows that Jesus is truly man.
2. The Bible shows that Jesus is truly God.
3. The Bible shows that the Father is God.
4. The Bible shows that Jesus is the Son, who is separate and distinct from the Father.
5. The Bible shows that the Holy Spirit is God but yet is separate and distinct from both the Father and the Son.
6. The Bible shows that there is only one God.

The points are what they are. They are all biblical and they are what any and every doctrine on the nature of God must take into account. I have found that the doctrine of the Trinity is the one that best takes them into account and gives a satisfactory explanation. All other doctrines I have heard lack in explaining one or more points, or either ignore or do away with one or more altogether.

 

[Guest]

4. The Bible shows that Jesus is the Son, who is separate and distinct from the Father.

Yes, but scripture also explains how they became separate. An action took place. The Father lowered HIMSELF to a servant.

 

[Brother Mike]

This is very likely to be the case not only for the issue at hand in this discussion, but also most other religious and political topics. As people, our default positions and beliefs are rarely brought under the microscope for questioning. They are simply accepted as fact and we find ways to rationalize the data and facts we are later presented with to reinforce our perspectives. We've got to do a better job of critical thinking and questioning the 'givens' we almost naturally assume.

I myself in the Word have found this view. The Word God invokes mans imagination into what a god should be. This imagination gets impregnated into all religions even Christianity. God will be who I want Him to be. I do my best just viewing scriptures and hope that tells me who God is, and what a god is. I am aware I have wrong concepts in me from man. If I did not, then I would Know God perfectly, which I am not at that point. Being aware of shortcomings makes one continue to study and compare scriptures.

Free:

It isn't quite clear what you're saying here. It seems as though you are saying verse 18 is stating that God, the Father, is declaring the Son. Is that correct?

What I stated brother is that without a "Trinity" doctrine then we read the Word was made flesh just like we read everything else God declared and it came to pass. Mary became Pregnant by the Spoken Word through the power of the Holy Spirit. That was how Jesus was Begotten, and came into the World. Something God said as always came to pass. This is why the Word begotten is also included twice in John and in acts with the exact Word God spoke in Psalms that came to pass.

This is how we would interpret anything that God has said, declared or spoken. When God speaks, it comes to pass and in this case the spoken Word was made flesh, through Mary. This was how Jesus was begotten in a flesh body and came to Earth, by what God had declared would happen.

If I have a doctrine in the way of what I am reading, then what I read would be normally how I would read it until I have a chance to prove my doctrine. So instead of "The Word was made flesh" as something that came to pass as God declared in Psalm. The Word instead becomes a person, or Part of the Triune God. The Father, The Word, The Holy Spirit. So it's no longer God's Word, or as Jesus said My Words, or my Fathers Words, but the Word is now a person by which we have no scripture to back that up, except "The Word Was God" the same..................

So, only with a Doctrine written by several men with different versions would I examine "The Word was made flesh" as to mean something else that would not normally mean that. The Word made tree's, and everything else we see, but tress are not a person, nor are they a god.


Free:

1. The Bible shows that Jesus is truly man.
2. The Bible shows that Jesus is truly God.
3. The Bible shows that the Father is God.
4. The Bible shows that Jesus is the Son, who is separate and distinct from the Father.
5. The Bible shows that the Holy Spirit is God but yet is separate and distinct from both the Father and the Son.
6. The Bible shows that there is only one God.

Jesus is God, the Father is God, The son is separate and distinct from the Father.

I also can find scriptures for those, and can be proven in scriptures.

5. The Bible shows that the Holy Spirit is God but yet is separate and distinct from both the Father and the Son.

I would need the scripture that says the Holy Spirit is God. Just one would do even though that would break the rules of taking a scripture into private interpretation, I'll overlook that and give it to you if you give me the scripture that declares the Holy Spirit as God or any god. I can give you the ones that Show Jesus as God and the Father as God. I would need the Holy Spirit scripture to validate this claim with no possible means of countering in a common sense way.

The Holy Spirit (God in us?) Though there is not scripture connecting the Holy Spirit as God in us, one would assume that through the Holy Spirit this could only be true. This don't make the Holy Spirit God though because God has always taken ownership of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said I pray to my father and he will send a comforter that will not speak of himself, or on his own but only that which He hears. A God speaks on his own, and does not need to get direction from another part of God. So God in us is through the Holy Spirit and direct connection to God the Father through "HIS" Spirit.

If I had that scripture that says the Holy Spirit is God, like I do for the Father and Son, then we are getting somewhere. No scripture though, no go.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The Spirit "OF" something, God's Holy Spirit. Not God himself, but something that belongs to. I can post 20 more if you like.

The Bible shows that there is only one God.

Again............. by Doctrine.

4. The Bible shows that Jesus is the Son, who is separate and distinct from the Father.

If Jesus is separate and distinct from the Father, then that makes Two. This has always been a problem with "Trinity" trying to get this concept across because it makes absolutely no sense. This is the flaw in the Doctrine itself. Trinity wants their cake and eat it to. They want to say there is ONE God, but they also want to say that Jesus is not 1/3 of a god, but separate and distinct from the Father. So Jesus is either just a 1/3 of a god machine or He is fully God, the Son of God who was with the Father when told Let "US" create man in our image.

If Jesus is called God in Scripture, Once by His own Father, and He is separate and distinct from the Father, and there are two thrones, and there is One mediator, and One God, then that is TWO.

Weight the scriptures where Two are there or it's just ONE GOD. What gets more weight? I will be more than happy to list a whole bunch of them.

I don't understand why you go for something man had written that has so many scriptural complications. What does man know? About as much as we know and that is only in part. Why buy into it?

Mike.

 

[Free]

4. The Bible shows that Jesus is the Son, who is separate and distinct from the Father.

Yes, but scripture also explains how they became separate. An action took place. The Father lowered HIMSELF to a servant.

No, it is not showing how they became separate. The Father is not, nor has ever been, the Son. They have always been separate. Phil 2:5-8 is merely stating that the Son, who was God in nature, took human flesh.

 

[Brother Mike]

Free:

No, it is not showing how they became separate. The Father is not, nor has ever been, the Son. They have always been separate. Phil 2:5-8 is merely stating that the Son, who was God in nature, took human flesh.

It almost sounds like then there is no Son until God takes on the Nature of flesh. That makes Jesus a created being in a sense if they are separate, and we get into JW and Mormon beliefs here. If God the creator came down and became flesh then that presents other problems with a whole bunch of statements Jesus made. Also a lot of the same questioning, who Jesus pray to??

We would have to say that God is everywhere and a part of him came down to become flesh, distinct and separate. That Makes Jesus 1/3 of a god again a distinct and sesperate Part that makes God.


How hard is it to conceive that the Father and Son had always been here? I don't understand why that is a problem. There is only One God, One creator, who the scriptures say in 4 places that He made everything through, and for Jesus His son whom He had sent and Made his son Heir of all things. One God did not make himself an heir because it's already his.

Why can't God have a Son that is just like His father and fully God like His father. Why can't that be? It removes all these questionings. Explains the two thrones and everything else. Explains One God and One mediator. No contradictions at all.

Why is that, because your reading me doctrines that were made long ago, derived from a confusing time when people were trying to get manuscripts together and break away from the Catholic church. I am thankful for all their work, but I can't believe they had gotten it all figured out as we don't have it all figured out. If you just Give God His Son without the ONE God becoming his own Son, it works.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Do you really just see ONE GOD here or a Father and Son that always was?

Blessings.
Mike.

 

[Guest]

4. The Bible shows that Jesus is the Son, who is separate and distinct from the Father.

Yes, but scripture also explains how they became separate. An action took place. The Father lowered HIMSELF to a servant.

No, it is not showing how they became separate. The Father is not, nor has ever been, the Son. They have always been separate. Phil 2:5-8 is merely stating that the Son, who was God in nature, took human flesh.

But it is showing how they became separate. He emptied, humbled and became obedient. Not God in nature, but EQUAL TO GOD. Phil 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped.

 

[Free]

Free:


What I stated brother is that without a "Trinity" doctrine then we read the Word was made flesh just like we read everything else God declared and it came to pass. Mary became Pregnant by the Spoken Word through the power of the Holy Spirit. That was how Jesus was Begotten, and came into the World. Something God said as always came to pass. This is why the Word begotten is also included twice in John and in acts with the exact Word God spoke in Psalms that came to pass.

This is how we would interpret anything that God has said, declared or spoken. When God speaks, it comes to pass and in this case the spoken Word was made flesh, through Mary. This was how Jesus was begotten in a flesh body and came to Earth, by what God had declared would happen.

If I have a doctrine in the way of what I am reading, then what I read would be normally how I would read it until I have a chance to prove my doctrine. So instead of "The Word was made flesh" as something that came to pass as God declared in Psalm. The Word instead becomes a person, or Part of the Triune God. The Father, The Word, The Holy Spirit. So it's no longer God's Word, or as Jesus said My Words, or my Fathers Words, but the Word is now a person by which we have no scripture to back that up, except "The Word Was God" the same..................

So, only with a Doctrine written by several men with different versions would I examine "The Word was made flesh" as to mean something else that would not normally mean that. The Word made tree's, and everything else we see, but tress are not a person, nor are they a god.

The problem is, in John 1:18, it is not God, the Father, who is speaking, it is the Son who is declaring the Father. That is why I asked. So your whole point doesn't work.

Free:


Jesus is God, the Father is God, The son is separate and distinct from the Father.

I also can find scriptures for those, and can be proven in scriptures.

Good, so we agree then.

5. The Bible shows that the Holy Spirit is God but yet is separate and distinct from both the Father and the Son.

I would need the scripture that says the Holy Spirit is God. Just one would do even though that would break the rules of taking a scripture into private interpretation, I'll overlook that and give it to you if you give me the scripture that declares the Holy Spirit as God or any god. I can give you the ones that Show Jesus as God and the Father as God. I would need the Holy Spirit scripture to validate this claim with no possible means of countering in a common sense way.

The Holy Spirit (God in us?) Though there is not scripture connecting the Holy Spirit as God in us, one would assume that through the Holy Spirit this could only be true. This don't make the Holy Spirit God though because God has always taken ownership of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said I pray to my father and he will send a comforter that will not speak of himself, or on his own but only that which He hears. A God speaks on his own, and does not need to get direction from another part of God. So God in us is through the Holy Spirit and direct connection to God the Father through "HIS" Spirit.

If I had that scripture that says the Holy Spirit is God, like I do for the Father and Son, then we are getting somewhere. No scripture though, no go.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The Spirit "OF" something, God's Holy Spirit. Not God himself, but something that belongs to. I can post 20 more if you like.

This highlights a significant problem in many Christians' understanding of how to interpret Scripture. They think that in order for something to be true, it must be directly stated in Scripture. But the fact of the matter is that there is much that is not directly stated, much that can be deduced by what is implied.

The Holy Spirit is spoken of as being a "person," or rather, exhibiting "personhood." We see in passages such as Acts 5:3-4 that to lie to the Holy Spirit (which in itself makes no sense apart from personhood), is to lie to God. There are several such passages which when taken as a whole, as they need to be, imply that the Holy Spirit is God.

The Bible shows that there is only one God.

Again............. by Doctrine.

What do you mean "by doctrine"? This is what the Bible plainly shows, and which you have stated.

Isa 43:10-11, 10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. 11 I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.

Isa 44:6-8, 6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. 7 Who is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and set it before me, since I appointed an ancient people. Let them declare what is to come, and what will happen. 8 Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any."

Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the LORD, and there is no other."

Isa 45:21 Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.

Isaiah 46:9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,

(All ESV).

It simply cannot get any clearer than this. And this is precisely why your position is contradictory.

4. The Bible shows that Jesus is the Son, who is separate and distinct from the Father.

If Jesus is separate and distinct from the Father, then that makes Two. This has always been a problem with "Trinity" trying to get this concept across because it makes absolutely no sense. This is the flaw in the Doctrine itself. Trinity wants their cake and eat it to. They want to say there is ONE God, but they also want to say that Jesus is not 1/3 of a god, but separate and distinct from the Father. So Jesus is either just a 1/3 of a god machine or He is fully God, the Son of God who was with the Father when told Let "US" create man in our image.

If Jesus is called God in Scripture, Once by His own Father, and He is separate and distinct from the Father, and there are two thrones, and there is One mediator, and One God, then that is TWO.

Weight the scriptures where Two are there or it's just ONE GOD. What gets more weight? I will be more than happy to list a whole bunch of them.

I don't understand why you go for something man had written that has so many scriptural complications. What does man know? About as much as we know and that is only in part. Why buy into it?

Mike.

You are completely ignoring the wording of the doctrine of the Trinity. Although there are several such definitions, the wording is such that there remains one being that is God, as Scripture clearly states, but that there are three Persons within that one Being.

Those points I gave are, at least in part, precisely what the doctrine of the Trinity attempts to make sense of. Indeed, any Christology and theology proper must make sense of all those points without forcing one to be subject to another. But it is only the doctrine of the Trinity that truly remains faithful to what Scripture reveals about God. You want to go against monotheism and believe in polytheism but that is clearly an unbiblical position.

 

[Free]

4. The Bible shows that Jesus is the Son, who is separate and distinct from the Father.

Yes, but scripture also explains how they became separate. An action took place. The Father lowered HIMSELF to a servant.

No, it is not showing how they became separate. The Father is not, nor has ever been, the Son. They have always been separate. Phil 2:5-8 is merely stating that the Son, who was God in nature, took human flesh.

But it is showing how they became separate. He emptied, humbled and became obedient. Not God in nature, but EQUAL TO GOD. Phil 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped.

Again, it is not showing how they became separate. You are making Jesus a created being which goes against Scripture. The passage simply shows that Jesus, who was God in nature, humbled himself and became human.

 

[Free]

Free:

No, it is not showing how they became separate. The Father is not, nor has ever been, the Son. They have always been separate. Phil 2:5-8 is merely stating that the Son, who was God in nature, took human flesh.

It almost sounds like then there is no Son until God takes on the Nature of flesh. That makes Jesus a created being in a sense if they are separate, and we get into JW and Mormon beliefs here. If God the creator came down and became flesh then that presents other problems with a whole bunch of statements Jesus made. Also a lot of the same questioning, who Jesus pray to??

I'll rephrase what I have said to make it clearer. I used "separate" because that was what was argued. However, it does confuse things and it is much better to think of them as distinct.

How hard is it to conceive that the Father and Son had always been here? I don't understand why that is a problem. There is only One God, One creator, who the scriptures say in 4 places that He made everything through, and for Jesus His son whom He had sent and Made his son Heir of all things. One God did not make himself an heir because it's already his.

Why can't God have a Son that is just like His father and fully God like His father. Why can't that be? It removes all these questionings. Explains the two thrones and everything else. Explains One God and One mediator. No contradictions at all.

I have never stated that the Father and Son haven't always existed. I have very much argued that they have. It is one of the foundations of the Trinity. Just as I have clearly argued that the Son is just as much God as the Father.

Simply believing in the Trinity shows that I could not have argued otherwise. But if you really think I have done so, then you need to reread what I have written.

There are no contradictions except in your position by believing that there is both one God and two Gods.

 

[Guest]

No, it is not showing how they became separate. The Father is not, nor has ever been, the Son. They have always been separate. Phil 2:5-8 is merely stating that the Son, who was God in nature, took human flesh.

But it is showing how they became separate. He emptied, humbled and became obedient. Not God in nature, but EQUAL TO GOD. Phil 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped.

Again, it is not showing how they became separate. You are making Jesus a created being which goes against Scripture. The passage simply shows that Jesus, who was God in nature, humbled himself and became human.

But emptied, humbled and becoming are verbs. A verb describes an action, and it clearly says Jesus is equal to God. The definition of equal is what it is. I never said Jesus is a created being. The book of Timothy cleary states that God manifested himself into flesh. God didn't create himself into flesh, rather he manifested himself. There is a difference between created and manifested.