Tony Hyman
Member
I go with John 1:1 ".In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Therefore, Jesus is Lord in the Godhead.
Therefore, Jesus is Lord in the Godhead.
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stovebolts
Member
You guys are funny...
Since the thread is so off track, has anyone bothered to look at the first few passages in Genesis.
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was empty and void, and darkness covered the surface.... Or something like that...
We cannot know everything about God. We don't even know how he created the heavens or earth. All we know is the God created them
It's ironic how the very first chapter leaves us in question to which we are left with the simple fact that God created them. Now then, look at Collosians 1 and read it very carefully. It makes no assertion that Jesus created the heavens or earth. You will find this is true
And God said, let there be light
And by doing so, what was inside God, had become made known, for words originate from within, and reveal to that which is outside, what comes from within
And we see God revealing and defining his word as light which separates the darkness. We see that darkness is the absence of light and that God himself reveals himself through his word in a creative manor which brings order to chaos , and this was the first day
And Jesus was the light of men, yet men loved the darkness... But not only was Jesus the light of men, but the light of the world. These are not my words, but the words of John, and Jesus himself
But some would say that I am now saying Jesus was created. How some would misunderstand... To be clear, Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in him. If you have seen Jesus, you have seen the Father. Jesus asks, Phillip, do you not know me?..... And I ask, is it possible to know of Jesus and miss knowing him?
But I regress. We don't know how God created the earth. We just know he created it.
Since the thread is so off track, has anyone bothered to look at the first few passages in Genesis.
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was empty and void, and darkness covered the surface.... Or something like that...
We cannot know everything about God. We don't even know how he created the heavens or earth. All we know is the God created them
It's ironic how the very first chapter leaves us in question to which we are left with the simple fact that God created them. Now then, look at Collosians 1 and read it very carefully. It makes no assertion that Jesus created the heavens or earth. You will find this is true
And God said, let there be light
And by doing so, what was inside God, had become made known, for words originate from within, and reveal to that which is outside, what comes from within
And we see God revealing and defining his word as light which separates the darkness. We see that darkness is the absence of light and that God himself reveals himself through his word in a creative manor which brings order to chaos , and this was the first day
And Jesus was the light of men, yet men loved the darkness... But not only was Jesus the light of men, but the light of the world. These are not my words, but the words of John, and Jesus himself
But some would say that I am now saying Jesus was created. How some would misunderstand... To be clear, Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in him. If you have seen Jesus, you have seen the Father. Jesus asks, Phillip, do you not know me?..... And I ask, is it possible to know of Jesus and miss knowing him?
But I regress. We don't know how God created the earth. We just know he created it.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:1-3,14
If you don't comprehend that Jesus is the Word, and the Word is God, and through Him all things were made, it's because darkness has clouded your ability to see this truth.
In Him is the Life of men.
He is the Light.
This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
1 John 1:5
Jesus Christ is our great God and Savior, Who became flesh and died for our sins.
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Titus 2:11-14
...of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
For I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; Isaiah 43:3
How can you possibly miss it?
JLB
stovebolts
Member
Dear brother, do not think that I have "missed it". I fully understand and comprehend not only what you write, but how you come to your understanding. I am not blind or ignorant to your words nor understanding. If you wish for me to bore you and others, I could as easily jumped to "your side" and strengthend your argument.
But this is not what our Lord has shown me. By restraint I have pulled back my argument, for I know the Lord does not wish for me to either persuade you nor dispute with you.
Think on the things I have written. I am not asking you to agree, only to comprehend
Jethro Bodine
Member
"10 Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms." (1 Peter 4:10 NIV)
"1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship." (Romans 12:1 NIV)
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Yes in my life Jesus is my LORD! My Yehovah. My Adonay. My Elohiym. And His Written Word is my roadmap. For I only say what He says and do what I see Him doing. Jesus' life is my example of how to live my life in the victory that He purchased for me with His Blood.
Blessings of grace and peace be to you all in abundance!
Blessings of grace and peace be to you all in abundance!
Fish Catcher Jim
Member
Hello Brother Mike,
Is Jesus Lord of My Life? ( Loaded question is it not ) lol
The typical answer every one would quickly say is YES Jesus is Lord of my life - after all I am born again and the bible tells me so.
The million dollar question is -
Do you surrender under the Lordship of Jesus
This is something all together different then just making Jesus Lord of your life.
As to answer your question Brother Mike, yes sir Jesus is Lord in my every moment of my every day.
I can say sir that I am on a much higher level in Christ in this time of my life then I was even a year ago. I could not claim this if I had not surrendered under the Lordship of Christ Jesus.
Higher level in my
Faith walk
Love walk
Forgiveness walk
Prayer walk and so forth.
Funny how folks "Think" they know so much when really we know so little. The more you understand of Gods written word then you will soon learn that there is so much we simply do not know "YET".
Pilots have to go through recurring training no matter how long they have been flying. I found this to be true in our Christian walk as well. Example......recurring prayer training - we all "Think" we know how to pray. Brother Mike this has set me free where prayers are concerned. So much we forget or never learned correctly. So many silly prayer habbits we get into our prayer life.
No sir God has set a Parimitor where praying is concerned ( or any portion of His written word ) learn this and it is the difference of seeing prayers answered right now and giving up and thinking it was a no or not Gods will. Any way getting of course here.
Have a wonderful and blessed joyful week end Brother Mike
God Bless
James W
J
jocor
Guest
The reason I don't answer you is because you always bring this subject up in threads that have nothing to do with it. I keep telling you to start a new thread about this very subject, but you never do. Why is that? Are you afraid that I might actually reveal truth that would burst you false bubble? I will provide all the Scriptures you desire as long as you ask the questions in a thread dealing with who Yeshua is and isn't.
You don't answer the simple question in this thread entiltled; Is Jesus Lord, because you have no answer.
There is one Lord, and He is the Savior. His name is Jesus.
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Titus 2:13-14
Same Lord of the Old Testament
For I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; Isaiah 43:3
Jesus Christ is God who became flesh.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16
and again
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made...And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:1-3,14
- Jesus was a man before He became flesh?
- Jesus was an angel before He became flesh?
- Jesus was _______ before He became flesh?
Please provide the scriptures that validate your answer.
J
jocor
Guest
I have no problem answering the simple question in this thread. My first post was in agreement with StoveBolts, but I will make it clearer for your sake. Is "Jesus Lord"? If, by "Jesus", Yeshua the Messiah is meant, then yes, he is Lord. His Father, YHWH, made him to be "Lord" and "Messiah".
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God (Yeshua's Father) hath made that same Yeshua, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Messiah.
Yeshua was not always "Lord" or "Messiah". There came a point in time when he was made to be Lord by his Father YHWH giving him all authority and power.
He is also my Lord, and I his servant, but he is NOT my YHWH. YHWH is my Lord's Father. My Lord is the Son of Elohim (God). My Lord is NOT the Elohim of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob. My Lord is the Son of the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Acts 3:13).
The erroneous English translation says "Lord", but the Hebrew says "YHWH". "YHWH" does not mean "Lord", nor does it transliterate as "Lord". "Lord" is merely a MAN-MADE substitute title used to avoid pronouncing the Creator's name. This verse is a reference to Yeshua's Father. You will never come to a knowledge of the truth by basing your doctrines on erroneous English translations.
I see you have avoided answering the question again.
You explained away what the scriptures so plainly say, with a "bad translation", which I guess the many many verse's that show Jesus Christ as YHWH, the Savior of Israel are all "bad translations", in your opinion.
The simple question that I asked you, that you have avoided is:
What was Jesus the Messiah, before He became flesh.
John says He was God, before He became a man. John 1:1-3,14
Paul says He was God, before He became a man. 1 Timothy 3:16
Jesus Himself, says He is YHWH. John 8:58
What does Jocor say Jesus was before He became a man?
- a Man
- an angel
- God
JLB
J
jocor
Guest
You are quite correct that I am avoiding answering your question (in this thread that you insist on derailing). Start a new thread devoted to this subject and I will gladly answer you. This thread is to discuss Yeshua being our "Lord" and we his servants.
BTW, if you do decide to start a thread devoted to this subject, you will need to include a fourth option besides "a Man, an angel, God", that is, "Other".
Which is it?
No need to be embarrassed at what Judaism has taught you to believe.
Jesus Christ is YHWH, the Lord God of Israel, The Savior.
For I am the Lord [YHWH] your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no savior. Isaiah 43:3,11
Paul teaches us that Jesus is God the Savior.
...looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Titus 2:13
Jesus Christ is LORD, YHWH, our Savior and redeemer. Besides Him, there is no Savior.
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:9-13
This is a reference to YHWH, from Joel 2. This scripture links Jesus as YHWH.
There were many in His day, who practiced the religion of Judaism, that believed in Jesus, but they would not confess Him as Lord.
42 Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. John 12:42-43
Paul says you must believe and confess Him as Lord [YHWH] to be saved.
and again -
And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Zechariah 12:10
Peter teaches us it was the Spirit of Christ in the prophet Zechariah, speaking these words.
10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11
When Zechariah said these words...
The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:... Peter says it was the Spirit of Christ in Zechariah.
...then they will look on Me whom they pierced.
There is one Lord who is my Savior, and He died on the cross for me.
His name is Jesus, He is YHWH the great God and Savior.
He is the Lord God, creator of heaven and earth, Who became flesh to take away the sins of the world.
Let all of His people and His angels worship Him, for He is worthy!
JLB
stovebolts
Member
stovebolts
Member
You are making truth relative, which is a false idea. It is a self-refuting concept that is really only believed in the general public and touted in the media. If truth is relative, we can literally just throw the Bible out, and this conversation, as well as every single one on these forums, is pointless. If something is true, it is true for everyone in all times and in all places, regardless of their personal opinion regarding that truth. I really don't know how you can be accepting of such an idea.
The Bible is predicated on the idea that Truth is objective and knowable.
Paul is certainly not advocating here for relativism, rather, he is point out that some who still regard idols with superstition or such, believe that eating the meat is worshiping that idol. But Paul says that for one who thinks this is the case, that it is a sin, his conscience is weak.
If truth is relative, what are you up in arms about? But I actually did no such thing, at least not with the comment to which you are addressing. My point was that if Jesus is not God, he is a mere creature, just like a lamb or bull, and his sacrifice cannot be sufficient for the sins of all people, in all places, in all times. Continual sacrifices would have to be offered. But because he is God Incarnate, his sacrifice can cover all sins.
B
Brother Mike
Guest
I know a bit late, but thank you for sharing that. My hope is also I will seem to know little today, compared to what I will know later. I can only show what is revealed to me now, and I hope it's more perfect and complete later.
Jim Parker
Member
AMEN! Thank you!
I find it to be quite untrue. It is actually quite clear that Jesus did create everything, or at the very least, was involved in some way in the creation of everything that has ever been created--which precludes him from ever having been created.
Col 1: 16, For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things were created through him and for him. (ESV)