Growth Is The Trinity Biblical? (Yes!)

[Free]

Free, we have been having this discussion for a few years now. There is ONE LORD GOD........... That does not erease the ONe LOrd JESUS CHRIST.

The Father called his son GOD.

There is no foundation in scripture saying there is only ONE, not one scripture.

Now if the FAther called his Son God.......... then that is two.

50 Scriptures mention them both together............ TWO

Now how you come up with one, is a mystery to me, but there is a Father and there is a Son, both God, sitting on their perspective thrones.

50 some scriptures say there are two................ Believe scripture, not some Cathloic doctrine from the 1500's when they suddenly become 3 that are one.

You can't fault me for counting two. It's in many scriptures, and I am not willing to say there is just one, and no Son.

Remember, Trinity believers there are 3 and all 3 are seperate and give their own account. Those 3 are 1 and that part is called a mystery.

A Mystery free. I don't buy into the Mystery. You can't fault me for believing scriptures. If you want to believe in the mystery, then I am fine with that.

At least your not Oneness............ I am thankful for that.

Yes, we have been doing this a long time, and you're still wrong--still taking passages out of context; still believing in the heresy of polytheism; still falsely creating a difference between "Lord God" and "God"; still ignoring all the clear evidence that has been presented to you.

 

[DanielGarneau]

Mike,

Please forget about trying to explain how three can be or cannot be one for a moment, and do try to explain through rational means what Ezekiel and Isaiah saw as a representation of God in Ezekiel 1-3 and Isaiah 6. Reasoning it out can just not be done.

Likewise, we understand God as He reveals Himself to be elsewhere in Scriptures: one God in three persons – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I personally did not accept this teaching blindly from the older creeds, but by searching the Scriptures to find out How God reveals Himself to be. Now, years later, I find that the traditional creeds do a good job at summarizing the teaching of the Bible.

Daniel

 

[Brother Mike]

Yes, we have been doing this a long time, and you're still wrong--still taking passages out of context; still believing in the heresy of polytheism; still falsely creating a difference between "Lord God" and "God"; still ignoring all the clear evidence that has been presented to you.

It's not me, when I tested you last time, you were unable to count two God's when mentioned together. I can count though.

Mike,

Please forget about trying to explain how three can be or cannot be one for a moment, and do try to explain through rational means what Ezekiel and Isaiah saw as a representation of God in Ezekiel 1-3 and Isaiah 6. Reasoning it out can just not be done.

Likewise, we understand God as He reveals Himself to be elsewhere in Scriptures: one God in three persons – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I personally did not accept this teaching blindly from the older creeds, but by searching the Scriptures to find out How God reveals Himself to be. Now, years later, I find that the traditional creeds do a good job at summarizing the teaching of the Bible.

Daniel

One God in three persons is Oneness, and it's worse than Trinity scripturally.

Also, do you have specific verses to look at in Isa and EZE...... God Called his son Servant in Isa And Acts 4:27. Scriptures mentions them both in 52 scriptures,
Not saying Jesus is not God, His Father called him God. The Original Trinity doctrine never made them ONE GOD either, and we now have modern corrupted trinity doctrines with Oneness mixed in.

It does not make sense to me to loose my ability to count because of reliegion, and ignore tons of scriptures to grasp mans doctrine of a modern trinity doctrine.

Though You quoted Oneness........... Which is also confusing to me.

Thank you. Don't mind Free and I, we have had this discussion for years now when it comes up. He thinks I am in error for believing in the the Father and Son......... Oh, I am suppose to Smash them into One God and believe in the mystery.

Thank you for any time getting me those specific verses. Be blessed.

 

[Free]

It's not me, when I tested you last time, you were unable to count two God's when mentioned together. I can count though.

Three persons, one God. To say there are two Gods is anti-biblical polytheism and has no place in Christianity.

He thinks I am in error for believing in the the Father and Son.........

To purposely misrepresent what someone has said is a violation of the TOS. I have been more than clear that your error is believing they are two gods.

Oh, I am suppose to Smash them into One God and believe in the mystery.

The Bible clearly and unequivocally states that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, that they are all distinct "persons," yet there was, is, and only ever will be one God. That is what the doctrine of the Trinity attempts to makes sense of. Your position completely ignores the passages which state there is only on God.

 

[Brother Mike]

Three persons, one God. To say there are two Gods is anti-biblical polytheism and has no place in Christianity.


To purposely misrepresent what someone has said is a violation of the TOS. I have been more than clear that your error is believing they are two gods.


The Bible clearly and unequivocally states that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, that they are all distinct "persons," yet there was, is, and only ever will be one God. That is what the doctrine of the Trinity attempts to makes sense of. Your position completely ignores the passages which state there is only on God.

Yes free, Trinity believes they are all seperate people. Even God said there is only Me, the Only Lord God............. But that does not mean He ereased his Son by whom He called his servant.
I don't ignore the fact there is nothing else Like God the Father. Even Jesus said God was His Father, and greater than him. Jesus was not confused either.

However, God called his Son God........................ The Father calling His son God makes TWO FREE................

One Lord God, One Lord Jesus Christ................. That is scripture Free.

Both God the Son and God the Father have two very different descriptions of what they look like.......... One in Eze the other in Rev.

Two thrones.................. (No mention of the Holy Spirits throne)

Scriptures are not wrong free, you don't have to buy into the Cathloic mystery on how they suddenly become ONE.

A modern doctrine, not the original Trinity doctrine.

One Lord God, One Lord Jesus Christ..................... Two.

 

[DanielGarneau]

How does this sound? "The Trinity is a mystery that cannot be explained or comprehended by human reason but is best expressed by stating that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in unity, neither confusing the persons or dividing the substance that we are compelled by the Christian truth to confess that each distinct person is God and Lord and that the deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory and co-equal in majesty". Lutheran Church

Your quote from the Lutheran church basically sounds like a traditional Christian approach to which I personally subscribe. There are several ways to formulate it. This one seems OK to me.

 

[DanielGarneau]

[...] Also, do you have specific verses to look at in Isa and EZE [...]

I was especially thinking of Ezekiel 1 in its entirety, along with Ezekiel 1-2. It is not possible to read Ezekiel 1, and to explain what is pictured there in terms that one can fully comprehend. Think through every sentence where the movements of the living creatures are described. Rational thought is not the key for unlocking this passage. If you read on to chapters 2 and 3, it perhaps becomes clearer that what is being portrayed has to do with the glory of God. Attempting to reason out the images used to portray God's glory will just lead one astray into futile questions that do not lead to understanding what is truly going on.

The unity of God is a dominant teaching throughout Scriptures, Old and New Testament alike. Here are a few examples (some of them already mentionned in this thread's previous posts and in the Opening Post as well): Deuteronomy 6:4; Exodus 3:13ff; 1 Kings 8:60; Zechariah 14:9; Mark 12:29; 1 Corinthians 8:6... Reasoning this through, imposing a mathematical head-count on the godhead will only lead one astray from what the Church of Jesus Christ has recognized as true for many centuries, and still does today.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Who gives us eternal life?
Galatians 6:8;
"For the one who sows from his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life".

 

[Brother Mike]

I was especially thinking of Ezekiel 1 in its entirety, along with Ezekiel 1-2. It is not possible to read Ezekiel 1, and to explain what is pictured there in terms that one can fully comprehend. Think through every sentence where the movements of the living creatures are described. Rational thought is not the key for unlocking this passage. If you read on to chapters 2 and 3, it perhaps becomes clearer that what is being portrayed has to do with the glory of God. Attempting to reason out the images used to portray God's glory will just lead one astray into futile questions that do not lead to understanding what is truly going on.

The unity of God is a dominant teaching throughout Scriptures, Old and New Testament alike. Here are a few examples (some of them already mentionned in this thread's previous posts and in the Opening Post as well): Deuteronomy 6:4; Exodus 3:13ff; 1 Kings 8:60; Zechariah 14:9; Mark 12:29; 1 Corinthians 8:6... Reasoning this through, imposing a mathematical head-count on the godhead will only lead one astray from what the Church of Jesus Christ has recognized as true for many centuries, and still does today.

Well, explaining God's Glory would be impossible using natural language or even understood fully to explain.

We are the God Head bodily. We rule with and reign with the Son. We are a chunk that makes up the Godhead, not my word but Paul said that.

All things were created for Jesus and through (Because of) Jesus. The dia in Greek "by" means because of and through something.

the Father made all things for the Son, who has always been here with no mentioned creation date. Begotten always refer to His birth through Mary.

When Jesus has put all enemies under his feet, He will turn the rule back over to the
father. That all things will be again under the Lord God of the Universe.

1Co 15:24-28 kjva 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Kingdom just means to rule over, why they translated a Greek Female noun into Kingdom is beyond me.

Jesus has always been here. We in the body are also one with them.

Joh 17:21 kjva That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

We are not the father though.

Joh 17:5 kjva And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

The father gave the Son all the Glory, created all things for him and because of him.

To get glory from someone, there has to be TWO.

Heb 1:2 kjva Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

If it just ends up as only "ONE" God, then God is not appointing himself as heir, but the Son whom he gave glory to before the foundation of the World.

There is only one Lord God, the creator, the Saviour. The son in the end after all enemies have been put under his rule, will turn back the rule to His father that all things may be under His father, One God.

That is scriptures, and why I have such a hard time with these modern trinity/oneness doctrines saying there is only ONE.

I have scriptures.................

They say it's a mystery..............

Scripture V.S Mystery

I'll take scriptures.

Be blessed and thank you for sharing those scriptures.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Well, explaining God's Glory would be impossible using natural language or even understood fully to explain.

We are the God Head bodily. We rule with and reign with the Son. We are a chunk that makes up the Godhead, not my word but Paul said that.

All things were created for Jesus and through (Because of) Jesus. The dia in Greek "by" means because of and through something.

the Father made all things for the Son, who has always been here with no mentioned creation date. Begotten always refer to His birth through Mary.

When Jesus has put all enemies under his feet, He will turn the rule back over to the
father. That all things will be again under the Lord God of the Universe.

1Co 15:24-28 kjva 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Kingdom just means to rule over, why they translated a Greek Female noun into Kingdom is beyond me.

Jesus has always been here. We in the body are also one with them.

Joh 17:21 kjva That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

We are not the father though.

Joh 17:5 kjva And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

The father gave the Son all the Glory, created all things for him and because of him.

To get glory from someone, there has to be TWO.

Heb 1:2 kjva Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

If it just ends up as only "ONE" God, then God is not appointing himself as heir, but the Son whom he gave glory to before the foundation of the World.

There is only one Lord God, the creator, the Saviour. The son in the end after all enemies have been put under his rule, will turn back the rule to His father that all things may be under His father, One God.

That is scriptures, and why I have such a hard time with these modern trinity/oneness doctrines saying there is only ONE.

I have scriptures.................

They say it's a mystery..............

Scripture V.S Mystery

I'll take scriptures.

Be blessed and thank you for sharing those scriptures.

Are you done?
You've denied the Holy Spirit as being a person of the Godhead and you have separated God the Father and Jesus as being two separate beings, one greater than the other, and you are done?
It seems like we should only be beginning.

The Scriptures show the attributes of God as being the attributes of the Holy Spirit.
Pick any attribute of God, and there is a Scripture to show that it is the Holy Spirit.
How can anyone deny that the Holy Spirit is not God?
Because they don't know Scripture well enough.

I showed in post #28 that the Holy Spirit is God.
Just name an attribute of God and I'll show you a Scripture.

 

[Brother Mike]

Are you done?
You've denied the Holy Spirit as being a person of the Godhead and you have separated God the Father and Jesus as being two separate beings, one greater than the other, and you are done?
It seems like we should only be beginning.

The Scriptures show the attributes of God as being the attributes of the Holy Spirit.
Pick any attribute of God, and there is a Scripture to show that it is the Holy Spirit.
How can anyone deny that the Holy Spirit is not God?
Because they don't know Scripture well enough.

I showed in post #28 that the Holy Spirit is God.
Just name an attribute of God and I'll show you a Scripture.

Wow, been a long time I have been accused of not knowing scripture well enough. That is pretty bold statement.

You really are speaking to the wrong person to get in a debate with, but since you insist.

The Holy Spirit is God............ Ummmm.......... Ok. Let's see how good you are.

Eph 2:18 kjva For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Through the Work of Jesus, we have access to God the father through the Holy Spirit.

Now explain to me why we need the Holy Spirit to access the Father if the Holy Spirit is the Father............

Answer the question:

Let me show you an attribute of God. God gets all the glory, and He gives himself glory. Jesus said this one is healed for the Glory of God.

Joh 16:13 kjva Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

If the Holy Spirit is God, the Father. Then explain why Jesus is confused here about the Holy Spirit not speaking of himself, but ONLY THAT WHICH HE HEARS.............

Answer the question:

You can't answer those questions, because you would have to twist something simple to understand to come up with the Holy Spirit being God the Father when Scripture says different.........

Answer the simple to understand scriptures I posted.

I'll wait for you answers, I am interested if simple scriptures will correct you, or will you twist them and try to explain.

We will find out. The Holy Spirit never speaks of his own, the FAther most definitly speaks of his own.

Must be the (Spirit) side of God as they are 3 or something as 1 or something has to be the answer to misunderstand simple things. who knows.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Dear Brother Mike,
To your first question, you are trying to prove separation of the trinity through your human reasoning.
That won't work.
If you have faith to believe that God really does love you and will give you eternal life, then it shouldn't be so difficult to understand and believe that there is a trinity.
Don't believe for a minute that you can bypass the Holy Spirit and Jesus and have direct access to God the Father in heaven.
That's heresy.
And yes, I know, many Christians today believe just that.

How can the Holy Spirit be the Father?
I explained that in post #28.
Rather than answer my post, you have chosen to ignore it and take this thread in your own personal direction.
Is what you say more important than the Scripture I posted?
I will answer your questions anyway.

You say God gets all the glory.
I agree.
Isaiah 40:5;
"And the glory of the Lord will be revealed, and all people will see it together. For the mouth of the Lord has spoken".
This glory to be revealed is God.

2 Corinthians 3:8;
"will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious"?
This verse shows that the we see the glory of God through the Holy Spirit.

How is that?
Genesis 1:2b;
"...and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters".
It seems that the Spirit has always been here.

And please, don't be foolish by saying that Jesus is confused.
Human beings get confused understanding Scripture, not God.

In Revelation 1:4-5, John gives greetings to the churches from God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the seven fold Spirit before the throne.
Isaiah 11;2 shows the 7 attributes of the Holy Spirit.
Yes, I know, we can debate this all day long but without faith, what do we have?
God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all there in heaven in John's vision.
It takes faith to believe that.
It takes the same faith to believe that God cares enough about us to give us eternal life.

Who gives us saving grace?
Hebrews 9:14;
"How much more, the, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God".

I can go on, and I will, when you are ready.
Right now, you don't sound ready.

 

[Brother Mike]

Dear Brother Mike,
To your first question, you are trying to prove separation of the trinity through your human reasoning.
That won't work.
If you have faith to believe that God really does love you and will give you eternal life, then it shouldn't be so difficult to understand and believe that there is a trinity.
Don't believe for a minute that you can bypass the Holy Spirit and Jesus and have direct access to God the Father in heaven.
That's heresy.
And yes, I know, many Christians today believe just that.

How can the Holy Spirit be the Father?
I explained that in post #28.
Rather than answer my post, you have chosen to ignore it and take this thread in your own personal direction.
Is what you say more important than the Scripture I posted?
I will answer your questions anyway.

You say God gets all the glory.
I agree.
Isaiah 40:5;
"And the glory of the Lord will be revealed, and all people will see it together. For the mouth of the Lord has spoken".
This glory to be revealed is God.

2 Corinthians 3:8;
"will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious"?
This verse shows that the we see the glory of God through the Holy Spirit.

How is that?
Genesis 1:2b;
"...and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters".
It seems that the Spirit has always been here.

And please, don't be foolish by saying that Jesus is confused.
Human beings get confused understanding Scripture, not God.

In Revelation 1:4-5, John gives greetings to the churches from God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the seven fold Spirit before the throne.
Isaiah 11;2 shows the 7 attributes of the Holy Spirit.
Yes, I know, we can debate this all day long but without faith, what do we have?
God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all there in heaven in John's vision.
It takes faith to believe that.
It takes the same faith to believe that God cares enough about us to give us eternal life.

Who gives us saving grace?
Hebrews 9:14;
"How much more, the, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God".

I can go on, and I will, when you are ready.
Right now, you don't sound ready.

Yes, we see the glory of God through the Power of the Holy Spirit.
Yes, the Spirit hovered above the face of the deep, God saying let there be, and bam there was.
Yes the Blood of the Lord Jesus works through the Holy Spirit
Yes the Holy Spirit has 7 attributes, one main one being I Wisdom.
Yes the Holy Spirit is the Teacher, reminding us of things we have heard.

To be filled with the power of the Holy Spirit is to Say God is in my, for God said I will walk in my people.

Now, you and I have not been to Heaven and have seen and been explained how there are 7 Spirit, No have we seen and been explained to How Jesus said my Faither will send the Holy Spirit which proceeds from the Father to us and yet God the Father still on his throne.

I don't pretend to grasp, I have seen and it's all been explained to me. The Holy Spirit is not the Lord God, not the Father, Not Jesus. He is the Spirit "OF" God.
God said "MY SPIRIT" the Holy Spirit Belongs to God. God has taken ownership of him in many scriptures. Not that God is HIM, but taken ownership of Him.

The Holy Spirit never speaks on his own, but that which he hears. That is not God the Father, that is the Spirit of God.

Had this been 325ad up to 1500's then we would not even be having this discussion. The original Trinity Doctrine Never came up with the 3 is 1 idea. That came much later.

Jesus and the Father are of the Same God essence, substance. Same class. Some Trinity purist have changed their Doctrine to say Jesus and the Father or of the same nature and class.

Without a Cathloic Doctrine westeren Civilization has adopted and changed to their likeing there is no such thing as Trinity Doctrine scripturally.

Rome who made the Doctrine stated it's not scriptural (1912) but a Mystery of the Christain faith.

Foks can speak against God, they can speak against the Lord Jesus, but they get into trouble speaking against the Holy Spirit................ He is not the FAther.

I don't have doctrines of men I use to understand scripture. It says what it says.
And if Jesus said His Father will Send the Holy Spirit........ then the Holy Spirit is not the FAther whom the Father sent.

It's not complicated, unless we try to use one of the many different versions of some old Cathloic Doctrine.

Even worse, we apply the 1914 Apostolic Oneness doctrien, then things get real messed up.

 

[Nintentacle]

Free, we have been having this discussion for a few years now. There is ONE LORD GOD........... That does not erease the ONe LOrd JESUS CHRIST.

The Father called his son GOD.

There is no foundation in scripture saying there is only ONE, not one scripture.

Now if the FAther called his Son God.......... then that is two.

50 Scriptures mention them both together............ TWO

Now how you come up with one, is a mystery to me, but there is a Father and there is a Son, both God, sitting on their perspective thrones.

50 some scriptures say there are two................ Believe scripture, not some Cathloic doctrine from the 1500's when they suddenly become 3 that are one.

You can't fault me for counting two. It's in many scriptures, and I am not willing to say there is just one, and no Son.

Remember, Trinity believers there are 3 and all 3 are seperate and give their own account. Those 3 are 1 and that part is called a mystery.

A Mystery free. I don't buy into the Mystery. You can't fault me for believing scriptures. If you want to believe in the mystery, then I am fine with that.

At least your not Oneness............ I am thankful for that.

Like one user said, Tri-unity. The Bible is clear there is one God, yet it calls the Father God, the Son God, and the Holy Ghost God.

 

[DanielGarneau]

Mike,

Could you please share how you came to know Christ as your personal Savior?

I think this question is relevant to the present post, in light of the fact that I personnally do not know any Christian that do not agree with this forum's statement of faith on the issue discussed in this thread, namely "We believe that there is only one God, who is eternal and immutable, and manifests Himself in three distinct Persons; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

One can find it difficult to understand how God can be One and at the same time presented in Scriptures as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But the postings I have read from you so far in this thread do not show one who is trying to understand the Christian doctrine, but one who is trying to teach a doctrine that has little in common to what is being tought in conservative Christian Churches today.

So please, either provide here or indicate where to go on in this forum to read your personal testimony of how you came to know Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, and also perhaps, in which context you have grown in your faith since you have met Christ personally.

Perhaps this information would help in understanding where you come from with the type of argumentation you draw from Scriptures and which comes in conflict with this forum's statement of faith about the nature of God and who He is.

Graciously,

Daniel

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Mike,

Could you please share how you came to know Christ as your personal Savior?

I think this question is relevant to the present post, in light of the fact that I personnally do not know any Christian that do not agree with this forum's statement of faith on the issue discussed in this thread, namely "We believe that there is only one God, who is eternal and immutable, and manifests Himself in three distinct Persons; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

One can find it difficult to understand how God can be One and at the same time presented in Scriptures as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But the postings I have read from you so far in this thread do not show one who is trying to understand the Christian doctrine, but one who is trying to teach a doctrine that has little in common to what is being tought in conservative Christian Churches today.

So please, either provide here or indicate where to go on in this forum to read your personal testimony of how you came to know Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, and also perhaps, in which context you have grown in your faith since you have met Christ personally.

Perhaps this information would help in understanding where you come from with the type of argumentation you draw from Scriptures and which comes in conflict with this forum's statement of faith about the nature of God and who He is.

Graciously,

Daniel

I believe we cannot fully understand the Trinity.
We have to accept it by faith.
Someday, after all our debates are over, we will all see and understand.

 

[Brother Mike]

Mike,

Could you please share how you came to know Christ as your personal Savior?

I think this question is relevant to the present post, in light of the fact that I personnally do not know any Christian that do not agree with this forum's statement of faith on the issue discussed in this thread, namely "We believe that there is only one God, who is eternal and immutable, and manifests Himself in three distinct Persons; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

One can find it difficult to understand how God can be One and at the same time presented in Scriptures as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But the postings I have read from you so far in this thread do not show one who is trying to understand the Christian doctrine, but one who is trying to teach a doctrine that has little in common to what is being tought in conservative Christian Churches today.

So please, either provide here or indicate where to go on in this forum to read your personal testimony of how you came to know Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, and also perhaps, in which context you have grown in your faith since you have met Christ personally.

Perhaps this information would help in understanding where you come from with the type of argumentation you draw from Scriptures and which comes in conflict with this forum's statement of faith about the nature of God and who He is.

Graciously,

Daniel

We believe One God manifest Himself as 3 people is not Trinity. So the SOF does not describe any Trinity. It is however Apostolic Oneness statement of faith. Trinity is 3 beings that are God of God and are one. Not One that becomes 3.

So, don't hold the forums Statement of Faith as it's not Trinity. I have asked years back to have the statement changed. Any Oneness Pentecoastal coming here would believe this is a Oneness site, though I know they ment to explain trinity as it was explained to me by Free.

I never considered Trinity when accepting Jesus. In fact I had a modalist view and concept of God because of the mixing of Trinity and Oneness. Trinity never used scriptures to prove anything. IN fact those that made the doctrine said it's not found in scripture. (Cathloic Encyclopida 1912)

However, the original Trinity Doctrine of 325ad, the one that started all Statements of Faith to come was not about defending Monotheism, but defending the deity of the Lord Jesus. The Original never made them one and did not include the Holy Spirit. That came hundreds of years later.

I believe we cannot fully understand the Trinity.
We have to accept it by faith.
Someday, after all our debates are over, we will all see and understand.

It's a mystery of Christian faith (Cathloic and other denominations)
A puzzle (Methodist)
To spiritual for mans finite mind to comprehend (Southern Baptist)

Jesus said.... Nothing was hid that shall not be manifested and nothing kept secret that it should not come abroad. John said we know all things by the Holy Spirit.

God must have skiped revealing the trinity thing, I guess that did not include things ot found in scriptures, though the original Trinity Doctrine is pretty scriptural as it makes no claims about 3 being 1.