Is the vaccine effective?

[historyb]

I am not sure how I am supposed to respond to you.... I am presently watching a video that crossnote posted... I am not American ... I am Canadian... and I don't think I like your TONE... so I will agree to disagree with you so as to avoid the potential for unnecessary strife. Bless you.

I have no tone, I see you will watch conspiracy theories but shun real science. American or not, every covid death is now on the hands of the unvaccinated. I might not as well not even put any effort into research because people don't care

 

[Isilwen]

I do

You should still respect them. They are making a choice for their own body from their own research and conscience.

We made the choice to vaccinate based on doing our own research and listening to our own conscience. We must allow them to make their own choices.

 

[Adoration]

I have no tone, I see you will watch conspiracy theories but shun real science. American or not, every covid death is now on the hands of the unvaccinated. I might not as well not even put any effort into research because people don't care

This will be my last reply to you regarding this subject... the video I am watching is the FIRST one I have ever watched... I am not finished watching it as of yet... so you are charging me with an offence that I am NOT guilty of... It is this exact attitude of INTOLERANCE that I take offence to and absolutely am not able to understand. God bless you.

 

[Drew]

Perhaps it is clear to you... You have chosen to trust... As far as proving that the vaccine is effective... TIME will tell.

No. According to the experts:

A study published in the New England Journal of Medicine on the effectiveness of Pfizer’s vaccine in the first two months of the vaccination campaign in Israel backed up what had been seen in Pfizer’s own clinical trial. Looking at nearly 600,000 vaccinated people in Israel with another 600,000 matched unvaccinated people, the authors of the study saw that two doses of the vaccine were 92% effective at preventing infection, 87% effective at preventing hospitalization due to COVID-19, and 92% effective at preventing severe disease. (The effectiveness was lower when people had only received a single dose.)

There is no debate about this - the evidence is clear.

 

[Drew]

there is no data that can accurately reflect whether the vaccine is effective or not.

By any reasonable standard, this is a manifestly false statement.

 

[Adoration]

Drew With all due respect.... there has not been enough TIME to indicate what long term effects this vaccine will have on those who have taken it... It is apparent in your attitude that you do not FEEL there is room for debate here... I respect your passion but am not moved by what you are calling proof.

 

[Adoration]

By any reasonable standard, this is a manifestly false statement.

I stand by my comments... LOL

 

[crossnote]

The vaccine is not new it has been in the works since the 80's

Is it not still in it's experimental stage? I believe otherwise they could make it mandatory.

 

[Drew]

I have no tone, I see you will watch conspiracy theories but shun real science. American or not, every covid death is now on the hands of the unvaccinated. I might not as well not even put any effort into research because people don't care

I don't think you can say every covid death can be blamed on the unvaccinated; but I agree they bear much guilt.

And I agree that "people do not care".

In fact, it is beyond obvious that the vaccine resistors are in a position that cannot be defended on the basis of solid science without having to appeal to extremely implausible conspiracy theories.

In other words, they need to explain why there is virtual unanimity among experts that the vaccine is effective if this is indeed not the case.

 

[Drew]

I stand by my comments... LOL

Of course, but there is virtually unanimous expert opinion against your position.

 

[crossnote]

I don't think you can say every covid death can be blamed on the unvaccinated; but I agree they bear much guilt.

And I agree that "people do not care".

In fact, it is beyond obvious that the vaccine resistors are in a position that cannot be defended on the basis of solid science without having to appeal to extremely implausible conspiracy theories.

In other words, they need to explain why there is virtual unanimity among experts that the vaccine is effective if this is indeed not the case.

I don't understand this point. If the vaccine is so effective and you have the shot, what is there to fear?
Whatever happened to "Trust in the Lord, with all our heart"?

 

[Adoration]

I don't think you can say every covid death can be blamed on the unvaccinated; but I agree they bear much guilt.

And I agree that "people do not care".

In fact, it is beyond obvious that the vaccine resistors are in a position that cannot be defended on the basis of solid science without having to appeal to extremely implausible conspiracy theories.

In other words, they need to explain why there is virtual unanimity among experts that the vaccine is effective if this is indeed not the case.

Your words are filled to overflowing with accusations and assumptions...

I am unvaccinated.... I choose to be unvaccinated.... I have no idea WHO decided this makes me ill-informed and filled with conspiracy theories.... not to mention that I refuse to listen to science...... PLEASE....

I live as a recluse... I go out in public to the grocery store perhaps twice a week... I wear a mask and keep my distance... I take responsibility for HOW I behave.... which is in a mature and careful manner...

Once again... I have to state that I cannot believe that this has become an ISSUE... especially with fellow believers.
This is becoming yet another divisive topic... as if Christians don't have enough of those...

The issue here is RESPECT.

 

[Drew]

Drew With all due respect.... there has not been enough TIME to indicate what long term effects this vaccine will have on those who have taken it... It is apparent in your attitude that you do not FEEL there is room for debate here... I respect your passion but am not moved by what you are calling proof.

My understanding is that the issue is whether the vaccine is effective, not what the long term consequences might be. Not quite the same thing.

But we can talk about what trained experts have to say about the likelihood of long-term effects. Again, it needs to be underscored that if what you are saying is true, we are being misled by the overwhelming majority of experts. That is an extraordinarily difficult position to defend.

But let's get into this. Here is what one expert has to say:

The vaccines widely used in North America and Europe introduce short-lived RNA into your cells, where it is used to make the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, which then triggers your immune system to learn how to attack that protein. (In the AZ and J&J vaccines, the RNA is introduced via a modified cold virus, while in the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines the RNA is packaged directly into nanoparticles.)

The RNA and the spike protein both disappear after a few days, so they can't directly cause any long-term effects; any long-term effect is likely to result from your immune response, which has a persistent memory. So far, the suspected serious deleterious effects -- blood clotting and myocarditis -- are likely caused by the immediate reaction of your immune system, within the first few weeks after vaccination. These are real (at least the blood-clotting is) and can kill. They're also quite rare, in the range of 1 per 100,000 to 1 per 1,000,000 vaccinations. So far, though, there have been no reports of longer-term effects.

While the vaccines do cause serious side-effects, they're rare. Being infected with the virus (which is really the only alternative to being vaccinated in the long run) causes the same kinds of problems, but much, much more commonly. This is not surprising, since infection exposes your immune system to a much broader and more intense set of stimuli than vaccination. And of course, infection also causes lots of other problems that aren't seen with vaccines.

Now, we can debate this, but I think you know that the overwhelming majority of trained experts agree that we should take the vaccine.

I am not an expert - my opinion does not count.
You are not an expert - your opinion does not count.

What do the experts say - the ones who went to medical school and whose professional reputation is on the line?

Get the vaccine.

 

[Adoration]

My understanding is that the issue is whether the vaccine is effective, not what the long term consequences might be. Not quite the same thing.

Did you seriously just separate these two factors?? LOL
Ok so... take the vaccine... because it is effective.... don't worry about what the consequences might be... HAHA...

I think I am done here...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Of the 8,787 people who have died in Texas due to COVID-19 since early February, at least 43 were fully vaccinated, the Texas Department of State Health Services said.

Additionally, it said 95% of the 43 vaccinated people who died were 60 or older, and that a majority of them were white and a majority were men.

That 2nd group is me.

What these numbers show is that the virus shots work for most people but not all people.
And the group that will die the most after being vaccinated is my group.

 

[Adoration]

Anyways.... this will be my last comment on this thread.... I do not like the direction it has taken.... and so I will not contribute to STRIFE and judgment. Be blessed everyone.

 

[for_his_glory]

I do believe the vaccine is effective. I know there are arm chair peeps whom think thy know better, but this video by a doctor explains a lot.

There are pro's and con's on both sides of this issue as everyone is entitled to their views and opinions. It's ones own choice if they want the shot or not as no one has the right to force anything on another no matter what doctor reports and statistics show/say. I have my own personal reasons for not getting this shot as well as my husband had his reason for getting the shot. To each their own.

 

[Drew]

Your words are filled to overflowing with accusations and assumptions...

I am unvaccinated.... I choose to be unvaccinated.... I have no idea WHO decided this makes me ill-informed and filled with conspiracy theories.... not to mention that I refuse to listen to science...... PLEASE....

I live as a recluse... I go out in public to the grocery store perhaps twice a week... I wear a mask and keep my distance... I take responsibility for HOW I behave.... which is in a mature and careful manner...

Once again... I have to state that I cannot believe that this has become an ISSUE... especially with fellow believers.
This is becoming yet another divisive topic... as if Christians don't have enough of those...

The issue here is RESPECT.

We have addressed this before - yours is a very unusual special case, and I clearly acknowledged this.

But, in general, the unvaccinated clearly bear moral culpability for what is going on now.

 

[Adoration]

Drew.... Please refer to post #415

 

[for_his_glory]

I do not and never will respect anti vaxxers. The vaccine is not new it has been in the works since the 80's



https://dothaneagle.com/community/enterprise-ledger/news/covid-19-mrna-vaccines-how-could-anything-developed-this-quickly-be-safe/article_a21b2626-c7c8-11eb-b276-9f4b61334601.html#utm_source=dothaneagle.com&utm_campaign=/newsletter-templates/topic/popup&utm_medium=PostUp&utm_content=17819ab4674f2cd3bce883af0ae884923b4d052b

I respect your choice for getting the shot as well as you should respect the reasons why others and myself refuse to take it. I take the proper steps of protecting myself and others when I am out in public, which is usually once a week when I get groceries. Just because we decide to refuse the shot does not mean we are going to infect others if we are responsible.