James 2 And OSAS - Part 2

[smaller]

One of my messages was deleted WIP, and if you think this questions is not appropriate, please say why?

I asked DadO and anyone else who does not adhere to the OSAS position if their 'POSITION' entails that we must believe that we might not be saved in order to be saved.

I hope you understand this is positional and has zero to do with personal commentary.

s

No.

So, for the record you believe then that we who adhere to OSAS are not damned because we do not adhere to having to believe that we might not be saved in order to be saved?

Is this correct?

?

Smaller, if you would like to discuss the meaning of the term "anathema" and what it exactly entails, all you have to do is take me up on my offer to debate one on one, that way I can post from CATHOLIC sources and straighten out your laughable misconceptions . Nice try. This ain't my first rodeo.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

I can quite assure you that I am not interested in the RCC version of that whatsoever, period. So there is no sense wasting your breath or trying to keep goading me into discussions about a sect that considers most of us here heretics.

I'll not be bullied by such charades. And I'm not amused by such tactics used to bypass a simple question I put to you.

To clarify again, do you believe that in order to be saved you have to believe God in Christ might not save you (you must be non-OSAS?)

Oddly enough there are some sects that believe that. That you must be NON OSAS in order to be saved.

And if you DON'T believe that I don't know why you try to talk anyone out of OSAS anyway.

s

 

[Slider]

 

[George Muller]

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3


How can someone forsake or defect from Christianity if they have not for been Christian.

False teachers, false prophets, false teachings, false words. What you end up with is Christians who are not Christians and never were Christians.

I see we have a man of wisdom among us

 

[francisdesales]

Re: James 2 And OSAS

Sorry, been busy, and then for some inexplicable reason, the former thread was closed...?

Well, I don't think that 'follower' is always saved. Now this is just my opinion of coarse but I don't see in scripture that tells me that Judas was saved.

Well, to further delve into this, I think we'll need to discuss what we mean by "being saved", otherwise, we will probably talk past each other. For the most part, the Bible speaks of "being saved" as being rescued from something. This does not preclude the need to be rescued yet again at a later time. Even Christians may need being rescued from the slavery of sin, if they fall into a pattern of sin again. If one is "saved", to me, it means that they are free, free to serve God or themselves. They may still choose occasionally to serve themselves rather than God at times. However, to fall into a pattern of slavery again seems entirely possible, even after being once rescued by our Lord from sin.

I think we need to discuss the implications of that before we talk about who is saved or whether a follower of Christ is "saved" as per Scriptures. Don't you agree?

Even Muslims believe Jesus was a great teacher and even a prophet but not Lord.

Do Muslims follow the teachings of Jesus? I believe that the Lord will have great levity with men upon Judgment, and even Muslims can be saved if they obeyed the Law of Love as taught by Christ, even if they didn't know about Jesus = God.

Because one follows in doing the things of charity etc. (unsaved Jews today are givers) and their church doctrine does that make them a believer in Jesus as Lord? No, and James teaches about that. I think it is John who said, "they went out of us, if they were of us they wouldn't have done so" That's not even close to a quote but it is what he said paraphrased. So there were those who were in the church but not saved.

This verse you refer to is the only time someone's "salvation" is being questioned or doubted in the entire Scriptures - and it appears to be directed at a few false teachers.

I don't think it is our place to judge an individual's motives or such, we cannot know them. We barely can know our own...

So it's really all about that personal relationship we have with the Lord.

Yes, relationship. That strongly suggests some obedience, correct? If He is Lord of our lives, we would be expected to obey Him. Obedience to God's Commandments is our objective means of knowing that Christ abides in us - has a relationship with us. The "good deeds" do not save us, but they tell us that we are in Christ and "it is not I who live, but Christ who lives in me".

How would one go about that. An inheritance left to a child, the inheritance is left to them, the attorney's legally cannot give it to anyone else. The child would have to legally give it away.

A parent, before they die, can disown their child. A child can also disown or become emancipated from their parents. Inheritances can be conditional. Even in the case of being a Child of God, it is conditional upon our belief - faith - in Christ. But this faith is more than just intellectual knowledge and assent. James clarifies to us that faith that is dead is not salvific.

I guess part of my view is because I see God as my true Father. He says "what Father when His child ask for....does he give him a scorpion?" If my son asked me to send him to everlasting torment would I. Absolutely not, I would do everything and anything imaginable to change his mind. That is what a loving parent would do, wouldn't they?

It takes willful sin and a concerted effort to say "I will no longer serve" God. I think this is more of a way of life that has turned towards wickedness, say, Psalm 1. This is not a simple faltering - since God holds out forgiveness to ANYONE who asks for it. The longer we remain in Christ, the more remote we would "permanently" return to a life of slavery to sin without any desire to return to God.

I think we are either a goat or a sheep.

God will make that call - as Matthew 25 makes clear. It doesn't appear that the "sheep" already "knew" or "presumed" that they were sheep. They seemed "surprised".

Now I couldn't make myself a sheep only God could do that. Once I am a sheep I can't turn myself back into a goat, only God can do that.

You can "turn yourself into a goat" by purposely deciding to abandon Christ. Again, I do not see this as common. I do see it, I have relatives who went claimed to be "saved", became Protestant, etc. and then extremely difficult problems with his kids has turned him off from the IDEA (which depends upon FAITH) that God is a loving God who is concerned for us. He is still mad at God for seeming to disregard his prayers and his boys.

Now, do I think he is condemned? Of course not. The story is not over. But as of RIGHT NOW, my relative is not "saved" - in that he needs to be rescued again. He is very bitter towards God, does not pray anymore and has reverted to how he used to be 20 years ago. Yes, people can fall away from faith in God. Anyone who tells me otherwise, I tune them out, because my experience says otherwise.

Perhaps someone will say "he never was saved". He didn't seem to think that...

So if we look at the story of the Good Shepard and He says that a sheep has been lost and He will go find it we have to see that the sheep that is lost is still a sheep. God has not turned him back into a goat and then when he is found God turns him back into a sheep. When we see the word 'lost' we assume that means 'lost salvation' but that appears not to be so in this case.
So that is my point about being His child, can we undo that?

The Bible doesn't give us much evidence on who is a sheep. It merely states that God searches for HIS sheep. Too many presume that they are one of them. I have seen too many Christians return to their former lives to think that everyone who made an altar call with vivid emotional outbursts were/are sheep. But I only see part of the picture, so I don't presume to know anyone's eternal destiny. God will even listen to death bed conversions.

Can someone who really ever believed that Jesus in the only Savoir, 'say I don't want that salvation, I want to go to hell'? He said He would never leave us or forsake us, He's the Good Shepard. Sheep stray following green grass, they lay down and sleep and the flock moves on while they are sleeping. They look around and don't know where the flock has gone the Shepard will go find that sheep and put him/her on His shoulders and rescue them from themselves.

People do NOT decide "I want to go to hell", Deborah. They fall from believing the promises that there IS a heaven! They hear the promises, but don't see the results of a loving Father Who cares for their needs. "Ask and you shall receive". "Well, God, I've been asking "x" and I haven't received it". Now, it doesn't mean someone is asking for the lottery, but it can be something that would seem "reasonable", like to find a job or to be cured from a sickness to serve God or to pray for a child who has gone WAY wayward... "WHERE IS GOD IN THIS"???? We hear the promises, we hear the Word, but we sometimes do not see the results. And for some people, they give up on waiting. Their faith becomes a shipwreck. And it is gradual.

I am not about to doubt whether someone ONCE followed God. No one can see the internal motives, but it does seem, by one's actions, that the Spirit played some part in their lives and they were freed from sinful behavior. THAT is the definition of being saved - freed from the slavery of sin. Once they convert, perhaps they give up porn or drinking. They pray, they cuss less, by their fruits they are known. This is not "from them", since only in Christ can one act like this. This is why I am more of the thinking of NEVER saying "they never were saved", and follow Scriptures's lead to say that they fell away from the faith. They have given up on God and return to their former way. Does this mean they are going to hell? Heaven's no. Let us pray for people in doubt and who have lost their faith, that they hear the Lord pursuing them to return to Him.

Blessings to you, St. Francis de Sales

That is very nice of you, but I am not "St" yet! (we reserve that use for people after they have left this world) ;)

Blessings to you, as well, Deborah.

 

[George Muller]

Re: James 2 And OSAS

and even Muslims can be saved if they obeyed the Law of Love as taught by Christ, even if they didn't know about Jesus = God.

Boy talking about a rejection of the gospel?:naughty

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Yes just be good and you dont need Jesus?

"There is none good, no not one"

 

[MarkT]

MarkT,

In regard to Romans 11, I don't believe for a moment that any one Jew who died in unbelief is going to inherit the kingdom, but that is what I have to believe if I interpret Paul's passage about the tree and it's branches according to what you wrote in part 1.

Israel as a whole--those who are alive when Christ returns--will indeed come to faith in Christ and be grafted back into the vine. I don't see how this means individual Jews who died in unbelief will be grafted back in.

Overall, God does keep his promise to the descendants of Abraham, meaning those who are of the faith of Abraham. The operative word there being 'faith', not salvation in spite of unbelief. That's completely contrary to the gospel message.

Where there is breath there is hope (a chocolate kiss to anyone who remembers where that is--Amos?). Any person who once believed, but is in unbelief now, can potentially come back to faith in God. I don't condemn them. But if they die in that unbelief...it's over. The grafting back in is the grafting back in of living Jews who come to faith in Christ, not all deceased Jews who rejected him but are somehow grafted back in in spite of their unbelief in the promise.

You will have to remind me Jethro. What did I say about the tree and it's branches? And what does it have to do with a Jew who dies in unbelief?

 

[jeff77]

Does it make very much difference which side I agree with? The OSAS or the non-OSAS. As long as I am saved to begin with and I live a Christian life and never reject Jesus until the day I die. Before I found this forum I had not even thought much about these 2 terms.

 

[francisdesales]

Re: James 2 And OSAS

and even Muslims can be saved if they obeyed the Law of Love as taught by Christ, even if they didn't know about Jesus = God.

Boy talking about a rejection of the gospel?:naughty

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Yes just be good and you dont need Jesus?

"There is none good, no not one"

George, there is no name other than Christ through whom we can be saved...

Are you saying that Christ cannot send His Spirit to whom He desires to enable that person to love as Christ? Since no one can do good without Christ, we posit that the Muslim, Jew, or anyone else who follows the Law of Christ does so BECAUSE of JESUS CHRIST and His Holy Spirit.

I am certainly not saying that the Muslim has found another way to God. I am saying that the Muslim COULD be saved THROUGH Christ and His Spirit, Who blows where HE wills, not where we THINK He blows.

Regards

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It's a simple enough question.

I asked you if your theological position is that believers must believe that God in Christ might not save them in order to be saved?

s

Do I think that a person can only be saved if they believe that God may not save them?

No.

Salvation is by trusting in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sins, not by what you believe about the multitude of doctrines, in and of themselves, that we love to toss around in the church. Doctrine does not determine if you're saved or not. Character does.

This doctrine of OSAS only matters if you have stopped trusting in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sins but think you will still enter the pearly gates without trusting in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sins.

And James and others say we can know for ourselves if we are trusting in the blood of Christ by whether or not we have the love of God in us, and that the love of God in us is working itself out in increasing measure in other people's lives through the fruit of the Spirit. Character (love, joy, peace, forgiveness, patience, kindness, etc.) validates salvation, not doctrine. But so many people take comfort in the correctness of their doctrine to know they are saved or not...while they chew each other up over their doctrine. THAT is hypocrisy.

"...the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other." (Galatians 5:14-15 NIV)

Godly love is how we know we are trusting in God's forgiveness and are at peace with him. Godly love is the evidence of salvation. James says the faith that doesn't keep the royal law of scripture is a faith that can not save. Each of us individually has to take that to heart and make every effort to see that we don't fall short of salvation in this way.

"10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 1:10-11 NIV)

"7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." (Hebrews 6:7-8 NIV)

 

[jeff77]

@Jethrobodine. That post was one of the best I have heard yet. That is almost exactly the words I was searching my own mind for but could not quite find them.
I am refering to post #49. I am on my phone and can't copy and paste quotes.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: James 2 And OSAS

and even Muslims can be saved if they obeyed the Law of Love as taught by Christ, even if they didn't know about Jesus = God.

Boy talking about a rejection of the gospel?:naughty

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Yes just be good and you dont need Jesus?

"There is none good, no not one"

George, there is no name other than Christ through whom we can be saved...

Are you saying that Christ cannot send His Spirit to whom He desires to enable that person to love as Christ? Since no one can do good without Christ, we posit that the Muslim, Jew, or anyone else who follows the Law of Christ does so BECAUSE of JESUS CHRIST and His Holy Spirit.

I am certainly not saying that the Muslim has found another way to God. I am saying that the Muslim COULD be saved THROUGH Christ and His Spirit, Who blows where HE wills, not where we THINK He blows.

Regards

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts..." (Romans 2:14-15 NIV)

Same God, same requirements...just not personified in the person of Jesus Christ because of lack of knowledge about Christ...God himself having revealed himself through nature and conscience to the multitudes in earth's history who have not heard of the Law, or the name of Christ. God's grace extends much, much further than our little corner of history can grasp.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

@Jethrobodine. That post was one of the best I have heard yet. That is almost exactly the words I was searching my own mind for but could not quite find them.

Thank you kind sir. Please add any inspiration you may have and we will learn and grow and be edified together...and most of all, glorify Christ.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Reebs, this is for you:

 

[reba]

Luk 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Luk 11:10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Luk 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Luk 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

 

[George Muller]

Re: James 2 And OSAS

and even Muslims can be saved if they obeyed the Law of Love as taught by Christ, even if they didn't know about Jesus = God.

Boy talking about a rejection of the gospel?:naughty

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Yes just be good and you dont need Jesus?

"There is none good, no not one"

George, there is no name other than Christ through whom we can be saved...

Are you saying that Christ cannot send His Spirit to whom He desires to enable that person to love as Christ? Since no one can do good without Christ, we posit that the Muslim, Jew, or anyone else who follows the Law of Christ does so BECAUSE of JESUS CHRIST and His Holy Spirit.

I am certainly not saying that the Muslim has found another way to God. I am saying that the Muslim COULD be saved THROUGH Christ and His Spirit, Who blows where HE wills, not where we THINK He blows.

Regards

Well then they would not be a muslim, they would be a christian, right?

 

[George Muller]

Re: James 2 And OSAS

and even Muslims can be saved if they obeyed the Law of Love as taught by Christ, even if they didn't know about Jesus = God.

Boy talking about a rejection of the gospel?:naughty

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Yes just be good and you dont need Jesus?

"There is none good, no not one"

George, there is no name other than Christ through whom we can be saved...

Are you saying that Christ cannot send His Spirit to whom He desires to enable that person to love as Christ? Since no one can do good without Christ, we posit that the Muslim, Jew, or anyone else who follows the Law of Christ does so BECAUSE of JESUS CHRIST and His Holy Spirit.

I am certainly not saying that the Muslim has found another way to God. I am saying that the Muslim COULD be saved THROUGH Christ and His Spirit, Who blows where HE wills, not where we THINK He blows.

Regards

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts..." (Romans 2:14-15 NIV)

Same God, same requirements...just not personified in the person of Jesus Christ because of lack of knowledge about Christ...God himself having revealed himself through nature and conscience to the multitudes in earth's history who have not heard of the Law, or the name of Christ. God's grace extends much, much further than our little corner of history can grasp.

Well first an unsaved man, does not have the "law written upon his heart" Paul is speaking to Jews about the gentile Christians who show the work of the law written upon their hearts "THE HOLY SPIRIT" The law makes clear that the heart of all men is evil and wicked "deceptive above all things" Its good to look at the context of that chapter to see the point Paul is making to the Jews who are trusting in their own goodness to work righteousness.

Ro 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[George Muller]

James says the faith that doesn't keep the royal law of scripture is a faith that can not save.

I agree in large part but you seem to be adding your own thoughts to this? Do any christian you know, always walk in the Royal law? I think James is not trying to "unsave" anyone but to give them a stern warning about what a true and living faith should be. Again those who look to unsave others, should judge themselves before they look to judge others.

Jas 4:11 ¶ Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

 

[JLB]

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3


How can someone forsake or defect from Christianity if they have not for been Christian.


Peter said the end of your faith is the salvation of your soul, not the beginning!

receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls.


Jesus said those who endure to the end would be saved.


JLB

People can "fall away" from alot of things, such as sound doctrine. But put these scriptures in their context and one can see they do not intend to "unsave" anyone, nor to suggest the loss of salvation.
As a matter of fact, those who make these claims, have little real understanding of what happens at salvation? The flesh is not saved, and by the weakness of the flesh, no one can lose their salvation.

People can fall away from alot of things, however 2 Thessalonians 2 is not referring to a lot of things, it is referring to.

Apostasy - Apostasia - Strong's Number: 646


a falling away, defection, apostasy

It means to forsake.

Apostasy (pron.: /əˈpɒstəsi/; Greek: ἀποστασία (apostasia), 'a defection or revolt', from ἀπό, apo, 'away, apart', στάσις, stasis, 'stand, 'standing') is the formal disaffiliation from or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person.

A deliberate act of renouncing ones faith or religion.

Again, as the scripture says from Peter -

receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls.

The salvation of your soul is qualified at the end of your faith, not the beginning.

as it is written -

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

...the right to become. This does not mean it is granted automatically.

again -

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21

we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

as it is written

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

We are save by Grace, through faith. A faith that works righteousness.

If we repent of sin and are born again and then return to a life of sin, lying and fornicating and stealing... we will surly not enter His Kingdom on that Day.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21

This was written to Born again, Spirit filled Christians.


JLB

 

[George Muller]

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21

Paul is not saying they are not saved, but that they cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, by walking in the flesh. One must walk in the spirit to inherit the spiritual blessings of heaven. Look close at this list, if it means they cannot be saved then heaven will not need many mansions. By the way Paul called a whole church "carnal" which is another way to say "fleshly" did he "unsave" any of them? No, this is just a bunch of religious nonsense, made up in the mind of religious men to control other believers by fear.


Jas 4:11 ¶ Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

James says the faith that doesn't keep the royal law of scripture is a faith that can not save.

I agree in large part but you seem to be adding your own thoughts to this? Do any christian you know, always walk in the Royal law?

It's a fair question, and, 'no', I don't know of any Christian, including myself that always walks according to the royal law, 'love your neighbor as yourself'. But the whole counsel of scripture helps us to properly discern the whole truth about what James is teaching:

"5...make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 1:5-8 NIV)

Obedience is all about progress, not perfection. This progress is the evidence of our salvation and the continuation of our faith in the blood of Christ that keeps us legally justified before God in heaven.

I think James is not trying to "unsave" anyone but to give them a stern warning about what a true and living faith should be.

My first question is, "then what's the warning for?" Why should we have a true and living faith that looks the way it's supposed to except for the very reason he gives right in his teaching--so we can know for sure if we have a faith that can save us. And then do something about it if we don't.

Again those who look to unsave others, should judge themselves before they look to judge others.

Jas 4:11 ¶ Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

The Bible says to 'judge ourselves'. Is it wrong for me, or James, or anyone else to exhort others to examine themselves to see if they are really in the faith or not? How is simply showing what the Bible says about discerning the evidence of salvation in one's own life completing a judgment against someone? I don't get that at all.