Jesus and the Syrophoenician Woman

[handy]

Can y'all just read and give me your feedback on this.

Starving for Crumbs
It's an uncomfortable story. Few snapshots of Jesus portray our divine Savior being so human. Stuck in the midst of stories of miracles and healing, another account of Jesus' healing work begins with Jesus casting an insult.
In the gospel of Matthew she is known as the Canaanite woman. In Mark she is called the Syrophoenician woman. Either heritage puts her in a scandalous position. As a Syrophoenician she is a Gentile. As a Canaanite she is a Jewâ€â€but of ambiguous lineage and considered to be racially impure. Her people are considered "mongrels."
She approaches Jesus to ask that he cast a demon out of her daughter. Jesus' response? He tells her that to help her kind would be like feeding the dogs before feeding the children. Jesus' words here cannot be interpreted in a nice way. Jesus denies this woman's request and dismisses her based on her race and class. He is rude.
But she doesn't let him get away with it! She won't let her daughter's plight be denied. No matter who she is, no matter where she comes from, this woman needs Jesus, too.
So Jesus heals the daughter and from that action we begin to wonder if Jesus has learned something important about his ministry, too. Does this moment make him realize that his initial vision of his ministry is too small? And if Jesus has reached this insight, how much more do we need a broader vision of ministry? Whom do we exclude? To whom does the Spirit send us?
Jesus might have thought he came to reform the religion of his land. But with this encounter, it becomes obvious that there is an entire world starving for the crumbs falling from the children's table. May we receive these crumbs of life falling from Jesus' table, and become the bread of good news for others.

Reprinted from Words for Worship, copyright 2008 Augsburg Fortress.

 

[jasoncran]

it was a test for the syrophoenican woman, whether she wanted jesus to do the miracle or not. The lord knew her heart but said that to show that the barrier can be overcome in him, strange yes, but not unlike the biblical accounts of jewish apostle preaching to the gentiles(peter and cornelius).

on a historical note the syrophoenician race and the people of the tyre and sidon, tunis(carthage) are the same. More commonly known as the pheonician.
attila the hun was also the same menber of this race, they were viewed as an enemy to the empire of rome at one time, The punic wars were over by the time of christ.

jason

 

[Sparkey]

My feedback? Okay.

I don't like the way the "we begin to wonder" literary device is used. Well, I don't really mind it that much but think that that device isn't necessary. If the point of the article is that Jesus came in the flesh? I have Scripture to prove this beyond doubt. I don't like the speculative nature of such things though. Where does such speculation into the mind of Christ (that is not proclaimed by the Bible) end?

We begin to wonder along with the author about a great many things. When the author asks, "Does this moment make him realize that his initial vision of his ministry is too small?" I am reminded that the <Him> spoken of is the one and the same that God has declared is the ONLY ONE WORTHY to open the Books that are needed for the very salvation of said author.

Sometimes "we" tend to go too far in our wandering wonderings. This professional writer has a point maybe, I simply don't care for the way it's being made.

The conclusion sounds good: "May we receive these crumbs of life falling from Jesus' table, and become the bread of good news for others." BUT this weakens our position altogether. "WE" are not dogs. "WE" don't need to receive crumbs. God has grafted Gentiles into the very same Tree. Jesus our healer and his unmerited sufferings are the very agency of our healings. By his stripes we are healed, yes?

~Sparrow

 

[researcher]

Can y'all just read and give me your feedback on this.

Starving for Crumbs
It's an uncomfortable story. Few snapshots of Jesus portray our divine Savior being so human. Stuck in the midst of stories of miracles and healing, another account of Jesus' healing work begins with Jesus casting an insult.
In the gospel of Matthew she is known as the Canaanite woman. In Mark she is called the Syrophoenician woman. Either heritage puts her in a scandalous position. As a Syrophoenician she is a Gentile. As a Canaanite she is a Jewâ€â€but of ambiguous lineage and considered to be racially impure. Her people are considered "mongrels."
She approaches Jesus to ask that he cast a demon out of her daughter. Jesus' response? He tells her that to help her kind would be like feeding the dogs before feeding the children. Jesus' words here cannot be interpreted in a nice way. Jesus denies this woman's request and dismisses her based on her race and class. He is rude.
But she doesn't let him get away with it! She won't let her daughter's plight be denied. No matter who she is, no matter where she comes from, this woman needs Jesus, too.
So Jesus heals the daughter and from that action we begin to wonder if Jesus has learned something important about his ministry, too. Does this moment make him realize that his initial vision of his ministry is too small? And if Jesus has reached this insight, how much more do we need a broader vision of ministry? Whom do we exclude? To whom does the Spirit send us?
Jesus might have thought he came to reform the religion of his land. But with this encounter, it becomes obvious that there is an entire world starving for the crumbs falling from the children's table. May we receive these crumbs of life falling from Jesus' table, and become the bread of good news for others.

Reprinted from Words for Worship, copyright 2008 Augsburg Fortress.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans:
Mat 10:6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Cephas before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest as do the Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, how compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
Gal 2:15 We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that once ye, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called Circumcision, in the flesh, made by hands;
Eph 2:12 that ye were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Jesus did choose Israel over everyone else. He was on a mission, only to Israel when he was on earth. To the Jews, Gentiles were considered sinners and without God according to what Paul wrote.

 

[jasoncran]

i like that pov there reasercher

jason

 

[handy]

I'm looking more along the line of what Spar saw as well. Not so much what the article says about Jesus' ministry to non-Jews whilst here on earth, but what the article says about Jesus Himself.

This article was meant to be read in conjunction with several texts of Scriptures, one of which was James 2:1-17.

Compare:
James 2:2 For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes,
3and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, "You sit here in a good place," and you say to the poor man, "You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool,"
4have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil motives?

and

James 2:9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

with the article that states:

"Jesus' words here cannot be interpreted in a nice way. Jesus denies this woman's request and dismisses her based on her race and class. He is rude."

 

[AfterTheFlood]

A couple of thoughts. First, I think the author over reaches in the supposed "insult" by Jesus. Second, while it is probable that there was a "test" for the Canaanite, the context would seem to indicate that the real lesson was for the desciples. Consider the exchange:

"...Jesus did not answer(her)a word. So His desciples came to Him and urged Him, 'Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.'"

I think it would be a safe bet that the desciples had the same attitude towards the gentiles as the rest of the Hebrews and as he tells the desciples in Jn. 14:26 "But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." Time and again in the gospels we see the Lord setting the stage for his desciples as to the promise of the Spirit.

 

[researcher]

I'm looking more along the line of what Spar saw as well. Not so much what the article says about Jesus' ministry to non-Jews whilst here on earth, but what the article says about Jesus Himself.

This article was meant to be read in conjunction with several texts of Scriptures, one of which was James 2:1-17.

Compare:
James 2:2 For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes,
3and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, "You sit here in a good place," and you say to the poor man, "You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool,"
4have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil motives?

and

James 2:9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

with the article that states:

"Jesus' words here cannot be interpreted in a nice way. Jesus denies this woman's request and dismisses her based on her race and class. He is rude."

Jesus was the perfect Son of God. The writer places herself in a position of judging God and his motives.

In the OT God told Israel to wipe out entire races. God set fire to Sodom and Gomorrah killing everyone in those cities. He let Israel wander in a desert for 40 years, killed some who griped against Moses, and also Ananias and Sapphira for lying to the Holy Spirit.

If God wants to be rude, I'm sure he reserves that right. He can be rude, angry, violent, genocidal, vengeful etc. It wouldn't take away from the fact that He is still God and can do whatever he wants. And that would also include His Son. Although, Jesus did whatever the Father told him. So Jesus' telling the woman she wasn't worthy of the miracle she asked for because she wasn't an Israelite could have been Jesus' human side submitting to his instructions (from God) to only go to the house of Israel, while when he gave in to heal her daughter, it would have been the Father who told him to do so via the Holy Spirit because Jesus only did what the Father showed him.

Jesus was told by God (his Father) to only go to the Israelites. What would have happened if he would have ignored those orders? Would it have been disobedience? :\ Sounds like it! He was just keeping his charge. And since Jesus did what the Father instructed him to do and didn't act on his own, it would have had to have been the Father who relented and told him he could heal the woman's daughter. If not, Jesus' could have just walked around and did what he wanted, but the Bible says that he didn't.

At any rate, God can be rude, hateful or vengeful if he wants. He's God! Lol. That would surely go for His Son also. Really, who would be able to question Him (and win the argument)? Lol. ;)

 

[jasoncran]

yes, god has that ability to vengeful no doubt, but he chooses mercy and is consistant and never changing like man is. He can change his mind by the effectual prayer of the saints and that's only for judgement, ie james 5, and he also is the one that puts that on our hearts to pray.

jason

 

[handy]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I must say that when I read this article, which was reprinted on the back of the bulletin in church yesterday, I was livid. I mean, really, really livid.

But, I'll be the first to admit, sometimes my anger can get away from me. I felt, and still do, that the author, whoever it is, was blasphemous in that I felt that Jesus was being portrayed as being not only sort of clueless ("Does this moment make him realize that his initial vision of his ministry is too small?") but out and out sinful, ("Jesus denies this woman's request and dismisses her based on her race and class.") I do agree that in His sovereignty, God can be rude, but God is no respecter of persons and if He denies and dismisses anyone, it's due to their sin, not their "race and class".

I wanted to see if I was reading too much into the article, or if other Christians would draw the same conclusions I did.

 

[Sparkey]

A couple of thoughts. First, I think the author over reaches in the supposed "insult" by Jesus. Second, while it is probable that there was a "test" for the Canaanite, the context would seem to indicate that the real lesson was for the desciples. Consider the exchange:

"...Jesus did not answer(her)a word. So His desciples came to Him and urged Him, 'Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.'"

I think it would be a safe bet that the desciples had the same attitude towards the gentiles as the rest of the Hebrews and as he tells the desciples in Jn. 14:26 "But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." Time and again in the gospels we see the Lord setting the stage for his desciples as to the promise of the Spirit.

Good insight there. Thanks.