Jesus came back.. and Destroyed Jerusalem

[researcher]

Jesus said that when he came back, he would destroy the husbandmen (rulers) who looked after his vineyard, take the kingdom of God from them, and give it to someone else. Forty years later, the husbandmen were killed when the Roman armies destroyed Jerusalem. Thus, Jesus must have come back when they were killed.

Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


Mar 12:1 And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.
Mar 12:2 And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard.
Mar 12:3 And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty.
Mar 12:4 And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled.
Mar 12:5 And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some.
Mar 12:6 Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mar 12:7 But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.
Mar 12:8 And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.
Mar 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.
Mar 12:10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
Mar 12:11 This was the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Luk 20:9 Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.
Luk 20:10 And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.
Luk 20:11 And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
Luk 20:12 And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
Luk 20:13 Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.
Luk 20:14 But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
Luk 20:15 So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
Luk 20:16 He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.
Luk 20:17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
Luk 20:18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

 

[Adullam]

Re: Jesus came back.. and took the Kingdom of God from the Jews

Would these have been "replaced"? :eyebrow

 

[researcher]

Re: Jesus came back.. and took the Kingdom of God from the Jews

Would these have been "replaced"? :eyebrow

"and shall give the vineyard to others."

Absolutely! ;)

Point was, he must have come back if the husbandmen was destroyed though. ;)

 

[Vic C.]

Re: Jesus came back.. and took the Kingdom of God from the Jews

I moved this to End Times because that's where it belongs.

So, your true identity comes out. You're not a partial preterist at all. Plus you are now proposing that Replacement Theology is valid also? :bigfrown

 

[researcher]

Re: Jesus came back.. and took the Kingdom of God from the Jews

I moved this to End Times because that's where it belongs.

So, your true identity comes out. You're not a partial preterist at all. Plus you are now proposing that Replacement Theology is valid also? :bigfrown

Actually I just found those passages (looked at them more closely) today.

I never read it closely. Jesus said that when he came back he would destroy the husbandmen. The "husbandmen" were destroyed in 70 AD by the Roman armies, thus Jesus must have come back. If the husbandmen were destroyed, and Jesus didn't come back, then, Jesus' prophecy was false, thus, he wouldn't be perfect. ;)

The kingdom of God is the Holy Spirit (Luk 17:21).
Thus, if he took the kingdom of God from the Jews, then, he gave it to the Christians who have the Holy Spirit. I suppose that is "replacement theology." :o

 

[whirlwind]

Re: Jesus came back.. and took the Kingdom of God from the Jews

I moved this to End Times because that's where it belongs.

So, your true identity comes out. You're not a partial preterist at all. Plus you are now proposing that Replacement Theology is valid also? :bigfrown

Actually I just found those passages (looked at them more closely) today.

I never read it closely. Jesus said that when he came back he would destroy the husbandmen. The "husbandmen" were destroyed in 70 AD by the Roman armies, thus Jesus must have come back. If the husbandmen were destroyed, and Jesus didn't come back, then, Jesus' prophecy was false, thus, he wouldn't be perfect. ;)

The kingdom of God is the Holy Spirit (Luk 17:21).
Thus, if he took the kingdom of God from the Jews, then, he gave it to the Christians who have the Holy Spirit. I suppose that is "replacement theology." :o

We are the kingdom of God. The Holy Spirit is The King in us but we are the kingdom. The King and His dominion.

• Mar 12:4-9 And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled. And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some. Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son. But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours. And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard. What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others

.

I understand those verses as.....These husbandmen that watch over the vineyard are false teachers...preachers, priests, etc. The servants first harmed and killed were the prophets, those tending the garden of God with the true Word. Then the heir, the "wellbeloved Son" arrived and was killed so Satan could receive "the inheritance."

 

[researcher]

We are the kingdom of God.

Rom 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking,
>>>but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

 

[whirlwind]

We are the kingdom of God.

Rom 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking,
>>>but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Yes it is. That is the mystery I believe....He is in us. His peace, joy and Holy Spirit is in us:

• Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

 

[researcher]

I understand those verses as.....These husbandmen that watch over the vineyard are false teachers...preachers, priests, etc. The servants first harmed and killed were the prophets, those tending the garden of God with the true Word. Then the heir, the "wellbeloved Son" arrived and was killed so Satan could receive "the inheritance."

Yep! The leaders i.e. Pharisees, scribes and elders etc were the husbandmen.

The whole discourse begins here:

Mar 11:27 And they come again to Jerusalem: and as he was walking in the temple, there come to him the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders,

Then he goes into the parable...

Mar 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.

And, they knew he was talking about them:

Mar 12:12 And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way.

The husbandmen (chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders) knew he was talking about them when he said he would come back and destroy them. Sure enough, 40 years later, poof. The husbandmen were wiped out. And if they were destroyed, then, Jesus surely was the one who came back to do it.

Mar 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do?

he will come

and destroy the husbandmen,

and will give the vineyard unto others.

So it looks like we're waiting for the 3rd coming, not the second. :o LOL.

But now, these verses makes so much more sense..

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next:

for verily I say unto you,

Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel,

till the Son of man be come.

Easy as pie!

 

[veteran]

There's more to that parable, which The LORD first gave in the Book of Isaiah...

Isa 5:1-7
1 Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:
2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.
3 And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt Me and My vineyard.
4 What could have been done more to My vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?
5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to My vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:
6 And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.
7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah His pleasant plant: and He looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.
(KJV)

Three main ideas in that; 1) the house of Israel as meaning the majority of the peoples of Israel of the ten tribes, 2) Judah who was to have responsibility and care of God's law to do righteous judgments over Israel, and 3) tares that represent the "briers and thorns" God allows to creep in and take over because of His people rebelling against Him.

In the parable of the husbandmen (Luke 20), the vineyard is still the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) per Isaiah 5. SO, at that time our Lord Jesus gave that parable to the chief priests and scribes among the Jews in Jerusalem, just WHERE were the majority of the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) at that time in history?

The house of Israel was still scattered, among the nations, among the Gentiles. The Jews were NOT ruling over them, even as they show in their OWN Jewish histories.

And what happenned right after those symbolic husbandmen had our Lord Jesus crucified? The Gospel of Jesus Christ then went out especially where after the majority of Jews in Judea had refused It? To the peoples of the area of the seven Churches of Asia (Asia Minor), i.e., among the Gentiles, which is where the majority of the lost sheep of the house of Israel were.

And ever since, have the non-believing Jews been as symbolic husbandmen over the ten tribes that were scattered among the Gentiles? Absolutely not.

Christ's meaning then, is that His Kingdom would be transferred to another 'nation' that would bring forth the fruits thereof, meaning the fruits of The Gospel of Jesus Christ. So wherever the majority of the proclaimers of The Gospel have been, that's also the "nation" He was speaking of, i.e., mainly in the Christian West. Those "fruits" our Lord mentioned in the Matt.21 version of the parable are an important marker for the location of His "vineyard", the same vineyard of Isaiah 5.

Thus Christ's Kingdom (His inheritance) was moved to those who dwell in The Gospel, among all nations.

But notice who has moved back into the holy land and Jerusalem today, and note the majority of them are Jews outside The Gospel of Jesus Christ, or followers of Islam! Obviously then, the DESTRUCTION of the husbandmen is not yet! To go along with Scripture in that husbandmen parable, our Lord Jesus also gave this ...

Luke 13:25-29
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, "Lord, Lord, open unto us; and He shall answer and say unto you, "I know you not whence ye are":
26 Then shall ye begin to say, "We have eaten and drunk in Thy presence, and Thou hast taught in our streets."
27 But He shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from Me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
(KJV)

Who is this coming from the east, from the west, from the north, and from the south in that day? It's the believing remnant of the house of Israel (lost ten tribes), believing Jews of the house of Judah, and believing Gentiles, from the four corners of the earth. There's lots of Old Testament Scripture written about that event, which is what our gathering to Jesus Christ at His coming is about.

It doesn't take a very in-depth look at how things are today to know that gathering time has not happenned yet today. The 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem and scattering of the Jews to show the parable was fulfilled then is negated by the Jews creating a new state of Israel in the holy land today.

 

[whirlwind]

I understand those verses as.....These husbandmen that watch over the vineyard are false teachers...preachers, priests, etc. The servants first harmed and killed were the prophets, those tending the garden of God with the true Word. Then the heir, the "wellbeloved Son" arrived and was killed so Satan could receive "the inheritance."

Yep! The leaders i.e. Pharisees, scribes and elders etc were the husbandmen.

The whole discourse begins here:

Mar 11:27 And they come again to Jerusalem: and as he was walking in the temple, there come to him the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders,

And today , in the last generation, the "chief priests, scribes, and elders" are the husbandmen that sow false doctrine, traditions of men and deception in us, in the temple of God for we are that temple.

• 1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Then he goes into the parable...

Mar 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.

And, they knew he was talking about them:

Mar 12:12 And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way.

The husbandmen (chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders) knew he was talking about them when he said he would come back and destroy them. Sure enough, 40 years later, poof. The husbandmen were wiped out. And if they were destroyed, then, Jesus surely was the one who came back to do it.

Mar 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do?

he will come

and destroy the husbandmen,

and will give the vineyard unto others.

So it looks like we're waiting for the 3rd coming, not the second. :o LOL.

But now, these verses makes so much more sense..

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next:

for verily I say unto you,

Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel,

till the Son of man be come.

Easy as pie!

We are Israel. We are the lost sheep.

 

[parousia70]

He is in us. His peace, joy and Holy Spirit is in us

While in us presently, as you rightly assert, are His peace, Joy and Spirit somehow separated from His Body?

 

[parousia70]

Yep! The leaders i.e. Pharisees, scribes and elders etc were the husbandmen.

The whole discourse begins here:

Mar 11:27 And they come again to Jerusalem: and as he was walking in the temple, there come to him the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders,

And today , in the last generation, the "chief priests, scribes, and elders" are the husbandmen that sow false doctrine, traditions of men and deception in us, in the temple of God for we are that temple.

How did the Original Scribes and Pharisees know that THEY were NOT the "last generation of Chief Priests, Scribes and Elders", as you put it?

The scripture plainly says they KNEW He spoke a parable about THEM.
Were they wrong?

 

[whirlwind]

He is in us. His peace, joy and Holy Spirit is in us

While in us presently, as you rightly assert, are His peace, Joy and Spirit somehow separated from His Body?

We are His body.

 

[whirlwind]

Yep! The leaders i.e. Pharisees, scribes and elders etc were the husbandmen.

The whole discourse begins here:

Mar 11:27 And they come again to Jerusalem: and as he was walking in the temple, there come to him the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders,

And today , in the last generation, the "chief priests, scribes, and elders" are the husbandmen that sow false doctrine, traditions of men and deception in us, in the temple of God for we are that temple.

How did the Original Scribes and Pharisees know that THEY were NOT the "last generation of Chief Priests, Scribes and Elders", as you put it?

The scripture plainly says they KNEW He spoke a parable about THEM.
Were they wrong?

They didn't know they were not the last generation.

• Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

The parable was spoken about THEM and all those they are symbolic of...today's scribes and pharisees.

 

[researcher]

Sorry, WW, but if the Holy Spirit prompted Mark to write the following:

Mar 12:12 And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way.

Then Jesus had to have spoken the parable against the priests and scribes that were standing in front of him. The parable was about them, lol. Not someone else. ;)

 

[whirlwind]

Sorry, WW, but if the Holy Spirit prompted Mark to write the following:

Mar 12:12 And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way.

Then Jesus had to have spoken the parable against the priests and scribes that were standing in front of him. The parable was about them, lol. Not someone else. ;)

It was about them. It is also about the husbandmen, false teachers, before the time of Christ and those of today that harm His vineyard.

• Isaiah 5:7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.
  
  Jeremiah 12:10 Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.

 

[parousia70]

He is in us. His peace, joy and Holy Spirit is in us

While in us presently, as you rightly assert, are His peace, Joy and Spirit somehow separated from His Body?

We are His body.

So we're not waiting for Hime to Come Back?
He's already here?

 

[parousia70]

How did the Original Scribes and Pharisees know that THEY were NOT the "last generation of Chief Priests, Scribes and Elders", as you put it?

The scripture plainly says they KNEW He spoke a parable about THEM.
Were they wrong?

They didn't know they were not the last generation.

• Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

How does not knowing the day or hour preclude anyone from not knowing the generation?

For example, When My wife was pregnant with each of our kids, we had no idea of the day or hour they would be born, though we had certain knowledge that it would be sometime around 40 weeks after they were conceived. Not knowing the day or hour hardly necessitates not knowing the general time.

The parable was spoken about THEM

Then, How was it fulfilled for them?

 

[parousia70]

They didn't know they were not the last generation.

How do you know we are?