Jesus has saved us; we have the Holy Spirit; Now What?

[thepilgrim111]

Jesus has saved us; we have the Holy Spirit; Now What?!

John 9:4-5 "We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world." NASB

These are the words spoken by our Lord after His departure from the temple, in John Chapter 8, where the Jews had been disputing with Him about their standing before God. In these verses, Jesus shows His disciples that He has more to do than just stand around and argue with the stubborn unbelief of His enemies. Take note of the word “We”, We must work. Let’s look at the passage in context:

John 9:1-12 “As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth.” And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?" Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him. We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world."

When He had said this, He spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and applied the clay to his eyes, and said to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam" (which is translated, Sent). So he went away and washed, and came back seeing. Therefor the neighbors, and those who previously saw him as a beggar, were saying, "Is not this the one who used to sit and beg?" Others were saying, "This is he," still others were saying, "No, but he is like him." He kept saying, "I am the one." So they were saying to him, "How then were your eyes opened?" He answered, "The man who is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes, and said to me, 'Go to Siloam and wash'; so I went away and washed, and I received sight." They said to him, "Where is He?" He said, "I do not know." NASB

Jesus, who had just had a most unpleasant encounter with His enemies did not let the circumstances throw Him off His mission in this world. Though the mission would involve hanging on a cruel cross not many days hence, He would not miss an opportunity to do good and thus show the mercy and goodness of God.

This healing of the blind man subsequently caused quite a commotion amongst the synagogue officials and they cast out the blind man. John 9:35-39: Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" He answered, "Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him. And Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind." NASB

The man received nothing but good from the Lord; physical healing and soul healing. The man born blind received not only the ability to see the world, but he also received the ability to see Jesus and the salvation He offered. Jesus did not just talk about the goodness and glory of God while He was on this earth. He showed the love of God and the goodness of God to a sin sick world.

We as Christians have a work to do. It is an important work; the most important work that God has ever given man to do. The work is this; to not only spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but to help the needy, the widow, the orphans. Another part of the work is to treat people with justice, equity and fairness. All these things are things Jesus did; it is the example He set for us, and it is this work He expects us to do. And another thing to note; all these things bring glory to God.

I would point you to the first three questions in the Westminster Shorter Catechism.

Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?

A. Man’s chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever.

Q. 2. What rule hath God given to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him?

A. The Word of God, which is contained in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments is the only rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him.

Q. 3. What do the Scriptures principally teach?

A. The Scriptures principally teach, what man is to believe concerning God, and what duty God requires of man.

And this scripture pretty well sums up what our work is:

Mark 12:29-31 And Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. “And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.” KJV

The thing I would like to point out here is, “Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” This require another scripture:

Luke 10:29-36

But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, “And who is my neighbour?” And Jesus answering said, “A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.”

“But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.”

“Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?” KJV

And the answer is obvious. The neighbor is the Samaritan; the people despised by the religious Jew of the day. So, who is our neighbor? Everybody! My best friend and my worst enemy are both my neighbors!

So many Christians behave as though their work is just to attend church, give a few bucks, sing a hymn, shake a few hands and go back into the world and do whatever it is they please. They seem to think it is only the pastor whom they have hired to spread the gospel’s job. That is not the case, as the Word of God makes plain in so many scriptures besides the ones quoted above. It is the work! It is not only the work it is the duty! Of all of us to spread the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ to the world outside the Church.

But the question is; how can the ordinary Christian spread the gospel to the ordinary citizen of the world in a manner that can be believed. The truth is, if he or she fits the description of the Christian in the forgoing paragraph, they can’t. The Gospel can only be presented in a convincing manner by a person that lives the life as well as talks the talk.

Now I know this will make a lot of people angry and they will read no farther, but I must say it anyway: The world, in general, thinks of Christians as a bunch of hypocrites, and that is so because so many of us are indeed hypocrites. Who takes advice on how one should live their life from a hypocrite? Do you? I didn’t think so.

So to sum this all up; To do the work of Jesus is to live the life of Jesus and to spread the gospel; and we cannot spread the Gospel in an effective manner without first living the life of Jesus. Mk 12:31 “Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.” We must help the needy, the widow, the orphan; We must treat people with justice, equity and fairness. In other words, “We must Love our neighbors as ourselves.” It is only then we are qualified to spread the gospel to a lost and hurting world.

In our Lord’s prayer in John 17:13-18 "But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves. I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.”

He has sent us into the World to do a work; So, let’s do it!

 

[Jim Parker]

Jesus has saved us; we have the Holy Spirit; Now What?!

John 9:4-5 "We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world." NASB

These are the words spoken by our Lord after His departure from the temple, in John Chapter 8, where the Jews had been disputing with Him about their standing before God. In these verses, Jesus shows His disciples that He has more to do than just stand around and argue with the stubborn unbelief of His enemies. Take note of the word “We”, We must work. Let’s look at the passage in context:

John 9:1-12 “As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth.” And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?" Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him. We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world."

When He had said this, He spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and applied the clay to his eyes, and said to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam" (which is translated, Sent). So he went away and washed, and came back seeing. Therefor the neighbors, and those who previously saw him as a beggar, were saying, "Is not this the one who used to sit and beg?" Others were saying, "This is he," still others were saying, "No, but he is like him." He kept saying, "I am the one." So they were saying to him, "How then were your eyes opened?" He answered, "The man who is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes, and said to me, 'Go to Siloam and wash'; so I went away and washed, and I received sight." They said to him, "Where is He?" He said, "I do not know." NASB

Jesus, who had just had a most unpleasant encounter with His enemies did not let the circumstances throw Him off His mission in this world. Though the mission would involve hanging on a cruel cross not many days hence, He would not miss an opportunity to do good and thus show the mercy and goodness of God.

This healing of the blind man subsequently caused quite a commotion amongst the synagogue officials and they cast out the blind man. John 9:35-39: Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" He answered, "Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him. And Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind." NASB

The man received nothing but good from the Lord; physical healing and soul healing. The man born blind received not only the ability to see the world, but he also received the ability to see Jesus and the salvation He offered. Jesus did not just talk about the goodness and glory of God while He was on this earth. He showed the love of God and the goodness of God to a sin sick world.

We as Christians have a work to do. It is an important work; the most important work that God has ever given man to do. The work is this; to not only spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but to help the needy, the widow, the orphans. Another part of the work is to treat people with justice, equity and fairness. All these things are things Jesus did; it is the example He set for us, and it is this work He expects us to do. And another thing to note; all these things bring glory to God.

I would point you to the first three questions in the Westminster Shorter Catechism.

Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?

A. Man’s chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever.

Q. 2. What rule hath God given to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him?

A. The Word of God, which is contained in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments is the only rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him.

Q. 3. What do the Scriptures principally teach?

A. The Scriptures principally teach, what man is to believe concerning God, and what duty God requires of man.

And this scripture pretty well sums up what our work is:

Mark 12:29-31 And Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. “And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.” KJV

The thing I would like to point out here is, “Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” This require another scripture:

Luke 10:29-36

But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, “And who is my neighbour?” And Jesus answering said, “A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.”

“But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.”

“Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?” KJV

And the answer is obvious. The neighbor is the Samaritan; the people despised by the religious Jew of the day. So, who is our neighbor? Everybody! My best friend and my worst enemy are both my neighbors!

So many Christians behave as though their work is just to attend church, give a few bucks, sing a hymn, shake a few hands and go back into the world and do whatever it is they please. They seem to think it is only the pastor whom they have hired to spread the gospel’s job. That is not the case, as the Word of God makes plain in so many scriptures besides the ones quoted above. It is the work! It is not only the work it is the duty! Of all of us to spread the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ to the world outside the Church.

But the question is; how can the ordinary Christian spread the gospel to the ordinary citizen of the world in a manner that can be believed. The truth is, if he or she fits the description of the Christian in the forgoing paragraph, they can’t. The Gospel can only be presented in a convincing manner by a person that lives the life as well as talks the talk.

Now I know this will make a lot of people angry and they will read no farther, but I must say it anyway: The world, in general, thinks of Christians as a bunch of hypocrites, and that is so because so many of us are indeed hypocrites. Who takes advice on how one should live their life from a hypocrite? Do you? I didn’t think so.

So to sum this all up; To do the work of Jesus is to live the life of Jesus and to spread the gospel; and we cannot spread the Gospel in an effective manner without first living the life of Jesus. Mk 12:31 “Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.” We must help the needy, the widow, the orphan; We must treat people with justice, equity and fairness. In other words, “We must Love our neighbors as ourselves.” It is only then we are qualified to spread the gospel to a lost and hurting world.

In our Lord’s prayer in John 17:13-18 "But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves. I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.”

He has sent us into the World to do a work; So, let’s do it!

Good post! Well said.

 

[childeye]

Let's do what we must do. Even as Jesus must be about His Father's business, so must his body be doing the same.

 

[Jim Parker]

Let's do what we must do. Even as Jesus must be about His Father's business, so must his body be doing the same.

Eggs Ackley!

Mat 24:45-51 (NKJV) Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods.
But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[for_his_glory]

we have picked up our and are expected to walk in the footsteps of Christ and carry out the message of the Gospels to a wicked world that needs Gods salvation. Remember if the world hates you they hated Jesus first and with love Jesus laid down His own life that we can have life eternal through Him.

 

[Jim Parker]

...we...are expected to walk in the footsteps of Christ and carry out the message of the Gospels to a wicked world that needs Gods salvation.

Don't just carry the message.
BE the message.

"Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words." St. Francis of Assisi

iakov the fool




By reading the words posted above, you have chosen to subject yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool.

The poster assumes no responsibility for any permanent or unalterable changes to your worldview that may result.
No warrantee is declared or implied. Individual mileage may vary. Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[for_his_glory]

Don't just carry the message.
BE the message.

"Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words." St. Francis of Assisi

iakov the fool




By reading the words posted above, you have chosen to subject yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool.

The poster assumes no responsibility for any permanent or unalterable changes to your worldview that may result.
No warrantee is declared or implied. Individual mileage may vary. Enjoy the rest of your day.

That's what I said is to carry the gospel out to the world, I thought it was a given that carrying meant we teach it. Guess I should have made that clearer. All I need is the written word taught to me by the Holy Spirit, not the words of another person, but thank you anyway.

 

[Jim Parker]

All I need is the written word taught to me by the Holy Spirit, not the words of another person,

Not to suggest that this might be you, but just to be sure you know, those are the words of just about every heretic and whacko that comes down the pike.
(As in: "Just me and the HOLY Ghost." and "It's right there in the Bible.")

That's why scripture says the Church is the foundation (ground NKJV) and pillar of truth, (1Ti 3:15 NIV) because Jesus is the Truth ( Jhn 14:6) and His body is the Church. (Col 1:18,24) not every Tom, Dick, and Harriet that blows by with his or her King Jame Bible in hand.

iakov the fool




By reading the words posted above, you have chosen to subject yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool.
The poster assumes no responsibility for any permanent or unalterable changes to your cognitive functionality that may result.
No warrantee is declared or implied. Individual mileage may vary. Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[reba]

There is good reason God laid out a hierarchy with in the Church..

1Co 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

 

[smaller]

Not to suggest that this might be you, but just to be sure you know, those are the words of just about every heretic and whacko that comes down the pike.
(As in: "Just me and the HOLY Ghost." and "It's right there in the Bible.")

That's why scripture says the Church is the foundation (ground NKJV) and pillar of truth, (1Ti 3:15 NIV) because Jesus is the Truth ( Jhn 14:6) and His body is the Church. (Col 1:18,24) not every Tom, Dick, and Harriet that blows by with his or her King Jame Bible in hand.

iakov the fool

Gal. 6:
3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

How people relate to and line up with Apostles obviously varies, often dramatically. Paul laid down some serious groundwork. Not everyone follows his trail, honestly.

1 Corinthians 11:1
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

 

[Malachi]

That's why scripture says the Church is the foundation (ground NKJV) and pillar of truth,

The question for all is "Which Church?"

 

[Jim Parker]

The question for all is "Which Church?"

Find out which church is most like the one to which Paul wrote. That's the church.

iakov the fool




By reading the words posted above, you have chosen to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool.
The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying changes to your cognitive functionality that may result.
No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[Jim Parker]

How people relate to and line up with Apostles obviously varies, often dramatically. Paul laid down some serious groundwork. Not everyone follows his trail, honestly.

That's the truth!

iakov the fool

 

[GodsGrace]

Gal. 6:
3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

How people relate to and line up with Apostles obviously varies, often dramatically. Paul laid down some serious groundwork. Not everyone follows his trail, honestly.

1 Corinthians 11:1
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Your scriptures are referring to works, not to doctrine.
If the doctrine Jesus taught was followed, there would also be more good works. It's a circle, I like to say.
Much harm has been done because some do not understand God's word and "prove it for themselves."
SOLO scriptura is not really what God has in mind. What comes to mind immediately is:
Hebrews 10:25
It's good to be together and AGREE on what the bible teaches. I know different churches teach different doctrine, but they keep us in line and help us to understand doctrine.
There's always that danger of a rogue elephant who will do harm in God's name.

W

 

[for_his_glory]

Not to suggest that this might be you, but just to be sure you know, those are the words of just about every heretic and whacko that comes down the pike.
(As in: "Just me and the HOLY Ghost." and "It's right there in the Bible.")

That's why scripture says the Church is the foundation (ground NKJV) and pillar of truth, (1Ti 3:15 NIV) because Jesus is the Truth ( Jhn 14:6) and His body is the Church. (Col 1:18,24) not every Tom, Dick, and Harriet that blows by with his or her King Jame Bible in hand.

iakov the fool




By reading the words posted above, you have chosen to subject yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool.
The poster assumes no responsibility for any permanent or unalterable changes to your cognitive functionality that may result.
No warrantee is declared or implied. Individual mileage may vary. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Yes, Jesus body is the Church, not made by hands and definitely not mans religion, but that of the assembling together with Christ being the center of the assembling. Those who teach us need that anointing of the Holy Spirit that teaches them first and for us who hear the teachings need to discern what is being taught as there are only two spirits that operate as one is the spirit of truth and the other the spirit of error, 1John 2:27; 4:1-6. This is why I say that no man can teach us anything apart from the Holy Spirit teaching them first.

Did the Disciples or even Paul go out on their own accord, no, they were first empowered with the anointing of the Holy Spirit, Acts 1:8, 2:1-4, and then their Spiritual eyes were opened as they understood that of what Jesus taught them and at that time they became witnesses of Christ to the world as they went about teaching and setting up the true Church of Christ.

Many do go out preaching, but have not been called to do so and have not the anointing of the Holy Spirit as they go about preaching mans traditional doctrines of their church and have no true Spiritual knowledge of the word of God.

 

[smaller]

Your scriptures are referring to works, not to doctrine.

There are difficulties in doctrines. Few, if any of them agree. Here for example we take a 'reasonable' approach with the Nicene Creed as a basic and essential understanding. I'm fine with those determinations and agree with them without any dispute. But, were we to get hypercritical, even a word or two here or there CAN bring trouble, such as defining what constitutes "apostolic." That will in fact vary dramatically from sect to sect and we can and will find non-agreement there. Even while "pretending" there is agreement. You see the dilemma, I hope?

There are OTHER doctrines that are just as important if not more important than the Nicene Creed. For example, I take Romans 13:8-10 as the most critical doctrine, coupled with 1 Cor. 13 and other clearly dictated doctrines that are in direct line to these dictates. This particular doctrine has actually fallen far far away from ALL the churches. Following these doctrines vary, literally, almost down to each individual.

Believers during Paul's time were STILL laboring in studies, Word and in doctrine. 1 Tim. 5:17. We are to study to show "ourselves," individually, as "approved." And not just fall into taking the authority of some other man or sect. That I can not do unless I consider their deliberations legitimate to scriptural discourse "myself."

Doctrines vary. And a lot of them are bad, and in some cases, sick and hypocritical. It IS the obligation of "each" believer to follow the dictates of their own conscience and to bear their own burdens, pay attentions to their own "works" and work out their "own" salvation.

And not just "buy" into everything that comes down the doctrinal pipeline from innumerable sectarian sights. Even the Apostles disputed among themselves as to what was right. Paul called Peter out on hypocrisy for example in Galatians. Barnabus and Paul had issues. Believers abandoned Paul. Apostles had to deal with various forms of "legalism" and "false authority" and "false claims" among believers, even then. These things have NOT passed away from the arena of belief in Christ.

There are some things that I take personally, very seriously from Jesus and from Paul that FEW, if any, can accept. So, what's a person to do? They follow what they, individually, think is RIGHT. It can be no other way. No one else is going to be answering to God for another person. We are all individually accountable for the life we have been given.

If the doctrine Jesus taught was followed, there would also be more good works. It's a circle, I like to say.
Much harm has been done because some do not understand God's word and "prove it for themselves."
SOLO scriptura is not really what God has in mind. What comes to mind immediately is:
Hebrews 10:25
It's good to be together and AGREE on what the bible teaches. I know different churches teach different doctrine, but they keep us in line and help us to understand doctrine.
There's always that danger of a rogue elephant who will do harm in God's name.
W

I'm quite a fan of solA scriptura myself. But, really, I still listen for Gods dictates in my own life, constantly, by Living Word. That takes faith, personally applied. We can derive a lot of things from retrospect, but our sights should always be forward and should have goals or at least 'a goal.' And this also, is missing in some or a lot of sects.

My goal of faith in Christ is for change. That means "I" must seek Him for that "change." That also means that currently, you, I and everyone else is technically WRONG in the present situation. And nobody likes to hear that now, do they?

 

[Jim Parker]

But, were we to get hypercritical, even a word or two here or there CAN bring trouble, such as defining what constitutes "apostolic."

Scripture gives us a handle on what "apostolic" means.
Act 2:42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.
2Ti 2:2 ... what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
The apostolic teaching was entrusted to those men who were placed in the local churches by the apostles to be the "overseers." (Gr. EPISCOPOS - Eng. Bishop) These men were the presiding elders of each church. (one per church)
In succeeding generations, bishops were required to be approved by at least two other bishops to be installed as the leader of a congregation in order to insure that they were the "faithful men" to whom Paul referred.
Thus the teaching and practices of the apostles were preserved from generation to generation down to this day.

Those sects which broke from the Church which Christ established and, therefore, from the practices of apostolic succession which were put in place to insure the faithful transmission of doctrine and practice in the Church, generally reject the idea of "apostolic succession" or redefine it to justify their innovations.

One of the apostolic practices was the manner by which questions of doctrine could be determined and non-apostolic innovations avoided was the apostolic council as depicted in Acts 15 when It was determined that the Gentiles would not be required to be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses. This example of a conciliar (aka: collegiate) method of resolving issues of doctrine and practice was the basis of the 7 great councils which have provided the teachings of the Trinity and the human and divine nature of Christ.

So, the conciliar method of investigating a doctrine or practice to determine whether or not it was what the apostles taught and the conclusions of those councils is what they meant by "apostolic."

iakov the fool




By reading the words posted above, you have chosen to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. ( Hi ya!)
The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying changes to your cognitive functionality that may result.
No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

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Scripture gives us a handle on what "apostolic" means.
Act 2:42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.
2Ti 2:2 ... what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
The apostolic teaching was entrusted to those men who were placed in the local churches by the apostles to be the "overseers." (Gr. EPISCOPOS - Eng. Bishop) These men were the presiding elders of each church. (one per church)
In succeeding generations, bishops were required to be approved by at least two other bishops to be installed as the leader of a congregation in order to insure that they were the "faithful men" to whom Paul referred.
Thus the teaching and practices of the apostles were preserved from generation to generation down to this day.

The day these so called "apostles" of the faith take a STAND on what they really are in the flesh, I would have no choice but to agree with them.

Do I expect a religious authority of any brand to take the STAND in Paul's shoes or John's shoes? I'll believe it when I see it and hear it.

I'm not going to name a brand here, but let's take the example of a "sectarian" described chief Bishop.

Can that Bishop honestly say, as Paul did, that sin dwells in his flesh? That he has "evil present" with him? That he is the chief of sinners, and PROVE IT? That he has a messenger of Satan in his own flesh in the fashions of internal tempations and lusts? This his "sin" is of the devil?

Never have I EVER heard any self subscribed authority step DOWN into those cold hard facts. Ever. Other than the Apostles who wrote those dictates of themselves. When those men crawl DOWN to the level of TRUTH, then I could do nothing but agree with them.

Do I expect that to be heard? Uh, quite frankly, no. No person who is and remains "in the flesh" cares to look upon their own sorry hides in the manners that the Apostles set. They will, every single time, justify their own flesh, their indwelling sin, their evil present with them, and will instead claim that their own VILE FLESH is the VICAR OF CHRIST ON EARTH.

I'm sorry but the lot of these men are liars. I think God in Christ will save them, inspite of themselves. The lot of their flocks don't even know if they are saved or not, as they put them all under constant doubts and constants threats of eternal hellfire. The savior they serve is their own abilities to save themselves. Few will strip themselves of phony religious cloth. They practice damning each others, constantly, by heresies of every sort, one to another, never any of them seeing their own sorry state of partial sights.

Apostles? I hardly call them that. They couldn't speak the truth if their lives depended on it. And if they did their flocks would run out the doors, screaming, holding their hands over their ears and gnashing their teeth.

But, let's not look at the obvious. I speak generically above to many sects.

When these people melt together in Gods Mercy, I will gladly join with any of them.

This IS what is on the horizon, in answer to the question, NOW WHAT?:

1 Corinthians 15:24
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

[Jim Parker]

The day these so called "apostles" of the faith take a STAND on what they really are in the flesh, I would have no choice but to agree with them.
Do I expect a religious authority of any brand to take the STAND in Paul's shoes or John's shoes? I'll believe it when I see it and hear it.
I'm not going to name a brand here, but let's take the example of a "sectarian" described chief Bishop.
Can that Bishop honestly say, as Paul did, that sin dwells in his flesh? That he has "evil present" with him? That he is the chief of sinners, and PROVE IT? That he has a messenger of Satan in his own flesh in the fashions of internal tempations and lusts? This his "sin" is of the devil?
Never have I EVER heard any self subscribed authority step DOWN into those cold hard facts. Ever.

Your conclusion based on your total lack of experience in this regard is duly noted. I have heard them confess it repeatedly.

Other than the Apostles who wrote those dictates of themselves. When those men crawl DOWN to the level of TRUTH, then I could do nothing but agree with them.
Do I expect that to be heard? Uh, quite frankly, no. No person who is and remains "in the flesh" cares to look upon their own sorry hides in the manners that the Apostles set. They will, every single time, justify their own flesh, their indwelling sin, their evil present with them, and will instead claim that their own VILE FLESH is the VICAR OF CHRIST ON EARTH.
I'm sorry but the lot of these men are liars. I think God in Christ will save them, inspite of themselves. The lot of their flocks don't even know if they are saved or not, as they put them all under constant doubts and constants threats of eternal hellfire. The savior they serve is their own abilities to save themselves. Few will strip themselves of phony religious cloth. They practice damning each others, constantly, by heresies of every sort, one to another, never any of them seeing their own sorry state of partial sights.
Apostles? I hardly call them that. They couldn't speak the truth if their lives depended on it. And if they did their flocks would run out the doors, screaming, holding their hands over their ears and gnashing their teeth.
But, let's not look at the obvious. I speak generically above to many sects.
When these people melt together in Gods Mercy, I will gladly join with any of them.
This IS what is on the horizon, in answer to the question, NOW WHAT?:
1 Corinthians 15:24
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Here's a thought or two you might consider:
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned;
Mat 7:2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, (RSV)

 

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Your conclusion based on your total lack of experience in this regard is duly noted. I have heard them confess it repeatedly.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Here's a thought or two you might consider:
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned;
Mat 7:2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, (RSV)

IF you thought you read condemnation from me to any believer, you weren't listening. That is against my beliefs of Jesus actually being our Savior and actually coming through on His Certain Promises.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: