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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Bible Study JESUS MAKES US FREE - FROM WHAT?
- Thread starter GodsGrace
- Start date
jaybo
This is your post to me, number 44:
Where is "moral law" mentioned in the Bible? Paul wrote that we are dead to the law, not to some of it.
Romans 7:4-6, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law [not just some of it!] through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful desires aroused by the law, were active in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the law, [all of it!] because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code.
All three (artificial) divisions -- Civil Law, Ceremonial Law, and Moral Law -- have been abolished.
This is your post to me, number 44:
Where is "moral law" mentioned in the Bible? Paul wrote that we are dead to the law, not to some of it.
Romans 7:4-6, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law [not just some of it!] through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful desires aroused by the law, were active in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the law, [all of it!] because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code.
All three (artificial) divisions -- Civil Law, Ceremonial Law, and Moral Law -- have been abolished.
And your point is???
jaybo
This is my reply to you. Post number 54:
J, Paul doesn't make the rules.
God makes the rules.
Exodus 31:18
And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
God Himself wrote the 10 commandments.
They are commandments of God,
NOT commandments or rules set by Moses.
The Laws were of Moses,
The Commandments, or Moral Law, are of God and will never be abolished.
Deuteronomy 10:4
And he wrote on the tablets, in the same writing as before, the Ten Commandments that the Lord had spoken to you on the mountain out of the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly. And the Lord gave them to me.
Notice what John wrote:
1 John 2:3-6
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
Notice that it states that whoever says they know God will keep HIS COMMANDMENTS.
If we do not keep God's commandments, John states that we are a liar.
Jesus mentioned the 10 commandments many times in His preaching.
The 10 Commandments were NOT abolished, but made even more stringent.
See Matthew 5.
Our RIGHTEOUSNESS had to surpass that of the Pharisees, or we will not see heaven.
Matthew 5:20
20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Take the name of God in vain,
Dishonor our parents,
Steal,
Kill,
Covet our neighbor's goods,
Falsely testify against someone...
If we've been RELEASED FROM THE LAW, which you put in caps,
and you believe THE LAW means the 10 commandments,
then it's now OK to do whatever we wish!
No more moral law!
As Per Paul.
This is my reply to you. Post number 54:
J, Paul doesn't make the rules.
God makes the rules.
Exodus 31:18
And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
God Himself wrote the 10 commandments.
They are commandments of God,
NOT commandments or rules set by Moses.
The Laws were of Moses,
The Commandments, or Moral Law, are of God and will never be abolished.
Deuteronomy 10:4
And he wrote on the tablets, in the same writing as before, the Ten Commandments that the Lord had spoken to you on the mountain out of the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly. And the Lord gave them to me.
Notice what John wrote:
1 John 2:3-6
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
Notice that it states that whoever says they know God will keep HIS COMMANDMENTS.
If we do not keep God's commandments, John states that we are a liar.
Jesus mentioned the 10 commandments many times in His preaching.
The 10 Commandments were NOT abolished, but made even more stringent.
See Matthew 5.
Our RIGHTEOUSNESS had to surpass that of the Pharisees, or we will not see heaven.
Matthew 5:20
20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
So, IOW, you're saying that it's OK to worship other gods,
Take the name of God in vain,
Dishonor our parents,
Steal,
Kill,
Covet our neighbor's goods,
Falsely testify against someone...
If we've been RELEASED FROM THE LAW, which you put in caps,
and you believe THE LAW means the 10 commandments,
then it's now OK to do whatever we wish!
No more moral law!
As Per Paul.
jaybo
To which you replied....post number 55:
Why are you trying to twist what I believe? That kind of behavior is very unlike you.
Why would you even write garbage like this..?
"So, IOW, you're saying that it's OK to worship other gods,
Take the name of God in vain,
Dishonor our parents,
Steal,
Kill,
Covet our neighbor's goods,
Falsely testify against someone"
That is personal slander, unbecoming anyone who claims to be a Christian!!! Is this what you think loving your neighbor as yourself means? Or is that doing to others what you want them to do to you?
If you are under the law you are not a Christian. That is the truth. As I have shown, Paul explained it perfectly in Romans 7.
Read this carefully: "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code." Romans 7:4-6
Why you disagree with that? It is both plain and obvious!
Finally, I forgive you for writing this obscene garbage about me ...
"you're saying that it's OK to worship other gods,
Take the name of God in vain,
Dishonor our parents,
Steal,
Kill,
Covet our neighbor's goods,
Falsely testify against someone"
To which you replied....post number 55:
Why are you trying to twist what I believe? That kind of behavior is very unlike you.
Why would you even write garbage like this..?
"So, IOW, you're saying that it's OK to worship other gods,
Take the name of God in vain,
Dishonor our parents,
Steal,
Kill,
Covet our neighbor's goods,
Falsely testify against someone"
That is personal slander, unbecoming anyone who claims to be a Christian!!! Is this what you think loving your neighbor as yourself means? Or is that doing to others what you want them to do to you?
If you are under the law you are not a Christian. That is the truth. As I have shown, Paul explained it perfectly in Romans 7.
Read this carefully: "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code." Romans 7:4-6
Why you disagree with that? It is both plain and obvious!
Finally, I forgive you for writing this obscene garbage about me ...
"you're saying that it's OK to worship other gods,
Take the name of God in vain,
Dishonor our parents,
Steal,
Kill,
Covet our neighbor's goods,
Falsely testify against someone"
jaybo
I replied in post number 56:
Well, Jaybo,
What I said is what you write.
What I said is what you teach on this forum.
I supplied scripture for you...
and, BTW, I didn't say YOU do that stuff,
I said that ACCORDING TO YOU, it seems as though, yes, we can break every commandment
BECAUSE WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW.
No need for you to forgive me.
Read my post again.
I've asked you many times what you mean by THE LAW.
I do believe you stated that it means ANY law ANY commandment.
You stated that there is no Moral Law taught in the OT.
Do I really have to sit here and make a list of Moral Laws?
Do you think they were made up by MAN
or by GOD?
If they were made up by GOD, don't you think we should OBEY THEM?
I replied in post number 56:
Well, Jaybo,
What I said is what you write.
What I said is what you teach on this forum.
I supplied scripture for you...
and, BTW, I didn't say YOU do that stuff,
I said that ACCORDING TO YOU, it seems as though, yes, we can break every commandment
BECAUSE WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW.
No need for you to forgive me.
Read my post again.
I've asked you many times what you mean by THE LAW.
I do believe you stated that it means ANY law ANY commandment.
You stated that there is no Moral Law taught in the OT.
Do I really have to sit here and make a list of Moral Laws?
Do you think they were made up by MAN
or by GOD?
If they were made up by GOD, don't you think we should OBEY THEM?
Yes dead to all the law of Moses.
That is the context.
Do you understand what the law was added to?
JLB
jaybo
Last post was from you....number 59:
You wrote "I said that ACCORDING TO YOU, it seems as though, yes, we can break every commandment." This is slanderous!!! Why are you deliberately twisting what I have written? Really, I thought that you were a better person than this, but I guess I was wrong.
I forgive you for your personal attack and slander. I will not engage in any more conversation on this subject until you repent.
Last post was from you....number 59:
You wrote "I said that ACCORDING TO YOU, it seems as though, yes, we can break every commandment." This is slanderous!!! Why are you deliberately twisting what I have written? Really, I thought that you were a better person than this, but I guess I was wrong.
I forgive you for your personal attack and slander. I will not engage in any more conversation on this subject until you repent.
EXACTLY!!!
You wrote these words...
So, IOW, you're saying that it's OK to worship other gods,
Take the name of God in vain,
Dishonor our parents,
Steal,
Kill,
Covet our neighbor's goods,
Falsely testify against someone...
If we've been RELEASED FROM THE LAW, which you put in caps,
and you believe THE LAW means the 10 commandments,
then it's now OK to do whatever we wish!
How can you possibly say such mean-spirited garbage about me???
I never said anything like the above. => Those are your words! <=
I will not discuss this matter further with you. I used to respect you, but you have now "thrown that out the window". If you consider what you have said about me and apologize, I may consider discussing matters further with you. But not until then.
Go to bed!!!
jaybo
You stated that you didn't know about any MORAL LAW in the OT and that ALL THE LAW was dead for us.
You said we died to ALL the law, not just some of it.
You said all 3 artificial divisions have been abolished.
Post 44
I replied that Paul does not make the rules...God does.
Then I explained about how the 10 commandments were written by God - not Moses.
I said that if we know God, John said we would obey His commandments.
I said that JESUS said that if we want to enter into heaven, our righteousness would have to exceed that of the Pharisees.
You stated that we are released from the Law.
So I said that according to you it means that we are not longer under obligation to the Law.
Post 54
This is not a personal attack. It simply states that according to your theology, it would seem that we are not longer
obligated to keep the 10 commandments.
Then you said this is personal slander and that if a person is Christian they are not under the Law.
You repeated what you originally said.
WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW
NOT ANY LAW.
NOT EVEN THE MORAL LAW,,,since, according to you,there is no distinction - when in fact there is but this could be discussed at a later time.
So why did you take this so badly if I was repeating what you were saying?
You stated that you didn't know about any MORAL LAW in the OT and that ALL THE LAW was dead for us.
You said we died to ALL the law, not just some of it.
You said all 3 artificial divisions have been abolished.
Post 44
I replied that Paul does not make the rules...God does.
Then I explained about how the 10 commandments were written by God - not Moses.
I said that if we know God, John said we would obey His commandments.
I said that JESUS said that if we want to enter into heaven, our righteousness would have to exceed that of the Pharisees.
You stated that we are released from the Law.
So I said that according to you it means that we are not longer under obligation to the Law.
Post 54
This is not a personal attack. It simply states that according to your theology, it would seem that we are not longer
obligated to keep the 10 commandments.
Then you said this is personal slander and that if a person is Christian they are not under the Law.
You repeated what you originally said.
WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW
NOT ANY LAW.
NOT EVEN THE MORAL LAW,,,since, according to you,there is no distinction - when in fact there is but this could be discussed at a later time.
So why did you take this so badly if I was repeating what you were saying?
But if you state that we are no longer under the law, ANY LAW, as per your words...
then it would mean exactly what I stated!
That there is no further need to obey the 10 commandments.
That, according TO YOU, we are not obligated to keep even the 10 commandments.
I'm not sure what I'd be apologizing for...
I AM very sorry that you took it so personally,
but this IS what you teach Jaybo.
You cannot deny this.
No.
PM me.
I have said and will continue to say that if you are a Christian you are not under the law.
This is what the Bible says...
"In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code. Romans 7:4-6
If you disagree with this, take it up with God. I AM NOT INTERESTED IN DISCUSSING THIS ANY FURTHER!!!
No.
You don't get away so easily !!
Please reply to the questions on post no. 57....
You NEVER answer question no. 1 (I think it's no. 1)....
<ignored>
Listen guys...
Christians ARE dead to the Law, but the Law is also now written in our hearts...it is in our new Christ like, divine nature to obey Jesus' commandments.
Those commandments are summed up with "Love God with all your heart, soul, and might, and Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Love conquers sin.
Christians ARE dead to the Law, but the Law is also now written in our hearts...it is in our new Christ like, divine nature to obey Jesus' commandments.
Those commandments are summed up with "Love God with all your heart, soul, and might, and Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Love conquers sin.
We are dead to 603 laws from the OT.
We are not dead to 10 Laws from the hand of God.
They are summed up by Jesus" 2 Great Laws, Commands, as you've stated, they are not abolished.
1. This is the reason some people worship on Saturday....It's one of the 10 commandments.
2. Stating we are not under the Moral Law is akin to abolishing absolute morality and welcoming relative morality - a big topic these days.
3. The New Covenant does not abolish the Moral Law but instead makes it possible to obey it.