Bible Study Job

[for_his_glory]

Read the full chapters

Job 40:15-18, 23 behold now behemoth

Job 41 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook?

 

[Razeontherock]

So in other words are you saying that one of Job's sins was that he didn't ask forgiveness for his friends? And if it really is as difficult to read as you say it is, then hopefully the Message Bible will make it easier to follow and understand.

Spoiler alert: Job indeed prays for God's forgiveness for his supposed "friends" before it's all over, and this is easily one of the two most important theological points made in this amazing book. The other is the pre-Incarnate Christ is there! The one friend of Job's who doesn't act like an idiot, ever.

You know I'm going to urge you to read through the NT first, right? Not to deter you from reading Job, just to prioritize what's most important. And once you're solid in that you'll get SO much more out of the OT, and especially a heady book like Job.

Even so, some sections of Job are so much fun! Parts of it predate Genesis 1:1. So if you're going to read it now anyway, have fun looking for where the pre-Incarnate Christ shows up, where Jesus is Prophesied, and where He's longed for ...

 

[Razeontherock]

Read the full chapters

Job 40:15-18, 23 behold now behemoth

Job 41 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook?

Will he make many soft pleadings with thee? Lol, what a line ...

 

[Razeontherock]

Well, it was a little helpful. It told me why Job ( I still think of a career whenever I say or think of his name lol) repented in the dust and ashes, but I still don't know what sin he was repenting for.

Oh this guy didn't need specific sin to need to repent! He would've gotten along great with Enoch. And Isaiah: " woe is me, for I am a man of unclean lips, and of a people of unclean lips."

Job offered sacrifices on behalf of his kids JUST IN CASE maybe they sinned ... whoa, dude's hardcore

 

[Razeontherock]

Reading from the beginning of the chapter, my guess is that its from verse 3 - "therefore have I uttered that I understood not". I don't remember everything from this book but I recall Job questioning why he is suffering as if he felt he didn't deserve it. From the first verse in the book we know he feared God and eschewed evil but that doesn't mean he was sinless. That doesn't mean he deserved what he got obviously, but I think in questioning God, he was showing some pride in his own way of life.

Yes. Excellent understanding, not clearly revealed by a mere surface reading. This book gets deep! Right away, too ...

 

[Razeontherock]

I guess that makes sense. And of course he wasn't sinless, the only man to walk this earth that was completely sinless was Jesus Christ like I mentioned before. I have only guessed that the reason he was mourning the old ancient world is that Jesus wasn't born yet so nobody was saved. Which that being the case I wonder if that means that everybody went to Hell who had died in the OT.

Realizing that Job was likely alive around the time of Abraham and therefore this predates Moses by centuries, reading Job in the framework of THEIR understanding is helpful. Jews didn't develop any idea of an afterlife much less heaven or hell until long after Moses. Tuck that little factoid in the back of your mind so when it comes into play your mind gets sufficiently blown as you read, which is a major component of this Wisdom book.

 

[Razeontherock]

Job 42: 1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said, 2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. 3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. 4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. 5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. 6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Job repented about arguing with his three friends Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar about their generalizations about what happens to sinners as all three had a different opinion. Job should have never argued with them, but told them what happens to sinners by what God had already said. Job had to see and understand God and not just hearing what others were saying, but seeing God for what He had already spoken.

Isn't that amazing: long before anything was recorded that we recognize as Scripture, there was already a wealth of common knowledge about "what He had already spoken."

Wow!

 

[Razeontherock]

The answer lies in verse 3. Job 42:3. From what God was saying directly to Job in the previous chapter, it alludes to Job being somewhat of a BS artist. Not that he was doing it maliciously or on purpose or was even aware of the situation, but he was still doing it.

The book of Job is one of those stories that is less about Job himself and more what God wants to say to all of us. It's really heavy when you start to actually put those concepts into real terms in your life as many have abandoned God over what he has allowed or permitted to happen in their own lives.

Here you touch on one of the reasons I like to consider Job as the oldest story in Scripture: it gives good foundational understanding through which to understand the rest.

It'd be a really difficult place to start though ...

 

[Razeontherock]

The only sin that I could discern of which Job was guilty was the assumption that God owed him an explanation.

Well Jim, there's lots to discuss, even in just this much. I think we see a shared element of Job being presumptuous, (never a good thing before God!) but I see it more as Job defending his own righteousness - before God. A very bad idea, even without overt sin. This isn't really made clear until the NT.

Maybe you're right and Job did come from a place of wrongly concluding God somehow "owed" him something, and maybe in Job we see a bit of the older brother from the parable of the prodigal son?

 

[Razeontherock]

A lot of great answers from many other posters!

I would only add this. Job is struggling the nature of God. Is our God a fair God? Is our God a just God?

Job lost everything and his friends dont symphasize and his wife is of no comfort. All of this occurs to him through no fault of his own.

Has something happened to you and you've questioned if our God is a fair and Just God? Have you ever blamed God for something bad that's happened in your life and gotten mad at Him?

Job basically went from questioning God to accusing God. Specific words echo the scenes of a court. Job uses scrioture to put God on the stand. And when God takes the stand, Job understands and has no further questions. He received his answer, and saw how foolish he had been.

In short, bad things happen to good people through no fault of their own. Life happens...

Hope this helps.

Yeah, great life lessons in this book!
It's amazing to me that Job 'puts God on the stand,' and God answers! This is a recurring theme I see in Scripture.

And God puts Job in his place in the process of answering him. To get the context we have to keep the setting of chapter 1 in mind, then we properly see that this book is really about God, and His Glory, much more than it will ever be about Job. It does tell us about our place in God's Glory though, and it gives us comfort and security in that.

Job really enriches our understanding of the Gospel!

 

[Razeontherock]

Yes it does a lot actually and thanks. And unfortunately I had to also answer yes to both of those questions that you asked me. I have never actually meant to of course. I would never purposely do anything to blame God, doubt God, or question God. Sometimes when I'm really upset about something I'm not thinking all that clearly though and I accidentally say and do things that I don't mean. Then again, except for Jesus, don't we all?

This is certainly a major aspect of the book, and part of why Jews classify it as a Wisdom book.

 

[Razeontherock]

April, I have one more post for you now:

his name isn't job like "get a job;" it's pronounced with a long O, so like Jobe (rhymes with rode)

 

[stovebolts]

Yeah, great life lessons in this book!
It's amazing to me that Job 'puts God on the stand,' and God answers! This is a recurring theme I see in Scripture.

And God puts Job in his place in the process of answering him. To get the context we have to keep the setting of chapter 1 in mind, then we properly see that this book is really about God, and His Glory, much more than it will ever be about Job. It does tell us about our place in God's Glory though, and it gives us comfort and security in that.

Job really enriches our understanding of the Gospel!

For me, I see the book in two parts, but I'll regress. I believe Moses was the author of Job, and Job was a gentile, a contemporary with Abram. In all, Job is classified in Jewish literature as a Mashal, which is to say it is a story with intent both mixed with fiction and non fiction. I am not a literalist when it comes to the text.

In the end, I dont know that I would say God puts Job in his place. I used to believe that Job never got an answer to his questions and God just kind of smacked him down to his rightful place, but after several different studies on the book, I realized that God did answer Job, but through wisdom, not words. This is why Job repents. He has gained wisdom in the Lord, where before he only knew of the Lord.

 

[stovebolts]

April, I have one more post for you now:

his name isn't job like "get a job;" it's pronounced with a long O, so like Jobe (rhymes with rode)

Yes, in the Hebrew it is Iyov.

 

[Jim Parker]

Well Jim, there's lots to discuss, even in just this much. I think we see a shared element of Job being presumptuous, (never a good thing before God!) but I see it more as Job defending his own righteousness - before God. A very bad idea, even without overt sin. This isn't really made clear until the NT.

Maybe you're right and Job did come from a place of wrongly concluding God somehow "owed" him something, and maybe in Job we see a bit of the older brother from the parable of the prodigal son?

Job is shocking from the beginning.

First God describes him as blameless and upright.
Job 1:7 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”
Then He makes a bet with the devil that Job will remain faithful even if God allows Satan to bring curses upon him. OF course, being omniscient, God already knows exactly what Job will do. In effect, He cheats.

And then He "rubs Satan's nose in it."
Job 2:3 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited Me against him, to destroy him without cause.”

Then the devil tries another test. He asks permission to take Job's health so that he would then curse God and God agrees to let Satan try. So Satan, with God's permission, afflicts Job with the curses of the Law even though Job has not sinned.
But still Job will not accuse God of wrongdoing. (Job 2:10)

Job's monologue and the dialogues between Job and his friends is, essentially, Job maintaining his righteousness and his friends accusing him of sin and/or lack of faith.

Job's refrain is, "If only I could talk to God and ask Him why..."
Job 7:20
Have I sinned?
What have I done to You, O watcher of men?
Why have You set me as Your target,
So that I am a burden to myself?

But when God does respond to Job, it is not to explain the reason for Job's extreme testing.
Job 38:1-3 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said: “Who is this who darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me."

The answer to Job's question as to why he has suffered so terribly for no apparent reason is: "Who do you think you are to even dare to ask ME why I do anything?"

It is common that we suffer for no particular reason that we can discern.
And the underlying question is, "If nothing happens without God's will, then why is there so much suffering among innocent people?"
We are not under the Law of Moses for which there are curses for failing to keep the covenant. Neither is most of the world. So why does God allow it?
Is it just that the bumper sticker is right? Stuff happens?
We don't get to know.

And maybe we don't get to know because the answer is beyond our comprehension.
That there would be no answer is unthinkable if we hold to the belief that God is good and loving.

So, maybe we just don't have the clearance or the need to know? The story of Job tells us that we might as well not expect an answer to such a question.

Just be like Job.

Job 1:20-22 Then Job arose, tore his robe, and shaved his head; and he fell to the ground and worshiped. And he said: “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, And naked shall I return there. The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.”
In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong.

 

[Jim Parker]

I believe Moses was the author of Job

The book of Job probably predates Moses by 4 or 5 hundred years. It is considered to be the oldest book in the Bible.
My OT prof quipped that Job was the "adopted twin brother of Abraham." ;-)

 

[Northman]

It'd be a really difficult place to start though ...

Indeed it would. Perhaps even detrimental depending on the person.

 

[Razeontherock]

For me, I see the book in two parts, but I'll regress. I believe Moses was the author of Job, and Job was a gentile, a contemporary with Abram. In all, Job is classified in Jewish literature as a Mashal, which is to say it is a story with intent both mixed with fiction and non fiction. I am not a literalist when it comes to the text.

In the end, I dont know that I would say God puts Job in his place. I used to believe that Job never got an answer to his questions and God just kind of smacked him down to his rightful place, but after several different studies on the book, I realized that God did answer Job, but through wisdom, not words. This is why Job repents. He has gained wisdom in the Lord, where before he only knew of the Lord.

Oh I definitely agree God answered Job! And in doing so He gave us a sort of blueprint for how we can expect Him to answer us ... not necessarily with words we can use to prove our experience to others, but with something much more deeply meaningful, that doesn't go away just because we don't remember the right words.

That "mashal" idea, I definitely got that from this literature as soon as I saw the description of Job as being blameless. It's the intent, the purpose to this literature that matters to us.

 

[Razeontherock]

Job is shocking from the beginning.

First God describes him as blameless and upright.
Job 1:7 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”
Then He makes a bet with the devil that Job will remain faithful even if God allows Satan to bring curses upon him. OF course, being omniscient, God already knows exactly what Job will do. In effect, He cheats.

I am aware of the idea that this was a bet, and that this is taught in College courses. Here you explain well enough why I say that thinking is wrong: if God has to cheat, or is even capable of it, it's not a bet at all. Who is satan, that he should be capable of entering into a bet with the Most High? He can't. These are not equal parties, to be able to contract or negotiate. And yet in the same epoch we see Abraham dicker with God!

On a deeper level we see that Light and darkness are not equal yet opposite like yin and yang teach, but that God is sovereign. Not only is that an answer, but it's the best possible answer other than we now have the Mediator between God and man that Job so coveted!

 

[stovebolts]

The book of Job probably predates Moses by 4 or 5 hundred years. It is considered to be the oldest book in the Bible.
My OT prof quipped that Job was the "adopted twin brother of Abraham." ;-)

I think Adam and Eve, Cain and Able predate Job, and we attribute Moses as the author.
I have not heard he was the adopted brother of Abram. But we know he was a gentile based on the accounting of his death, for he was not laid to rest with his Fathers as is customary in Jewish writings.