John Calvin's Heretical Teaching

[JJonas]

Okay and ? Nothing here says anyone made faith a condition for Salvation

How came you to the conclusion that what I wrote was about the question if faith was a condition for Salvation?

What I wrote was about you warning people that where backing their claims with scripture, instead of either recognizing their claims to be true, or proving with scriptures that their claims were wrong, just as Jesus did when the Devil misleadingly cited the scriptures (Matt 4:7)

Dont ask me a dumb question, but if you condition salvation on your faith, you believe in works salvation

I have many times asked you to back your claims with scriptures, but you ignored my requests! Therefore, I am not going to discuss any further with you on this subject until you show me scriptures to back your claims! Meanwhile, I will consider that your claims are based on your philosophical beliefs instead of scriptures, but that you would be too ashamed to acknowledge!

 

[brightfame52]

How came you to the conclusion that what I wrote was about the question if faith was a condition for Salvation?

What I wrote was about you warning people that where backing their claims with scripture, instead of either recognizing their claims to be true, or proving with scriptures that their claims were wrong, just as Jesus did when the Devil misleadingly cited the scriptures (Matt 4:7)


I have many times asked you to back your claims with scriptures, but you ignored my requests! Therefore, I am not going to discuss any further with you on this subject until you show me scriptures to back your claims! Meanwhile, I will consider that your claims are based on your philosophical beliefs instead of scriptures, but that you would be too ashamed to acknowledge!

if you condition salvation on your faith, you believe in works salvation

 

[JLB]

You condition your salvation on your obedience, its apostacy.

The scripture teaches us that eternal salvation s for those who obey Jesus Christ.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

• He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

Again


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
John 3:36

• but he who does not obey the Son will not see life

JLB

 

[brightfame52]

The scripture teaches us that eternal salvation s for those who obey Jesus Christ.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

• He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

Again


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
John 3:36

• but he who does not obey the Son will not see life

JLB

You condition your salvation on your obedience, its apostacy.

 

[JLB]

You condition your salvation on your obedience, its apostacy.

The scripture teaches us the truth.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

 

[Hopeful 2]

Baptism has nothing to do with the cleansing blood of Christ. Those for whom He died are cleansed by His Blood by His One offering of Himself, that purified them from sin Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

I am sorry you feel that way.
The atoning, sanctifying, justifying, blood of Christ is applied to us when we are water baptized into Christ and into His death and burial. (Rom 6:3-4)

The word purged is the greek word katharismos:
a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

Great, and goes along with Peter's Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

This was accomplished by Christ Himself and then He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on High,

I would say it was made available to us at that time.
It had already been accomplished on the cross.

Water Baptism has nothing to do with it. In fact, everyone Jesus died for [His Sheep, Church] are born into this world purged from their sins.

What a ridiculous notion.
To imagine that I was already cleansed of sin while I was still drinking and drugging, whoremongering and lusting over anyone who I saw, lying and stealing, is plain ludicrous.
You are in effect saying that a man washed by the blood of Christ is still walking after the flesh.
Your doctrine is an accommodation for sin.

if you condition salvation on your faith, you believe in works salvation

The only "works salvation" ever mentioned in the bible, was salvation based on keeping the Mosaic Law.
i.e., circumcision, dietary rules, feast keeping, sabbath keeping, tithing, temple service, etc.
Believing, having faith, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, repentance from sin, reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost and even enduring faithfully until the end, are not works of the Law.
They are all essential components of a Christian's life.
No man will be saved without having faith.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You condition your salvation on your obedience, its apostacy.

Which is it going to be ?
Obedience to God, or faith in a calvinism that discounts obedience to God ?
You gotta believe one or the other.
So either way you must have faith in order to be saved.

 

[electedbyhim]

Warning?

I asked a question and listed a scripture.

Again, very simple question -

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obeyHim. Hebrews 5:9


Do you believe a person must obey Jesus Christ to receive eternal salvation?

Obedience is a product of regeneration

 

[Hopeful 2]

Obedience is a product of regeneration

That makes it easy to see that those who don't obey God have not been regenerated.

 

[brightfame52]

The scripture teaches us the truth.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

You condition your salvation on your obedience, its apostacy.

 

[brightfame52]

I am sorry you feel that way.
The atoning, sanctifying, justifying, blood of Christ is applied to us when we are water baptized into Christ and into His death and burial. (Rom 6:3-4)

Great, and goes along with Peter's Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

I would say it was made available to us at that time.
It had already been accomplished on the cross.

What a ridiculous notion.
To imagine that I was already cleansed of sin while I was still drinking and drugging, whoremongering and lusting over anyone who I saw, lying and stealing, is plain ludicrous.
You are in effect saying that a man washed by the blood of Christ is still walking after the flesh.
Your doctrine is an accommodation for sin.

The only "works salvation" ever mentioned in the bible, was salvation based on keeping the Mosaic Law.
i.e., circumcision, dietary rules, feast keeping, sabbath keeping, tithing, temple service, etc.
Believing, having faith, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, repentance from sin, reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost and even enduring faithfully until the end, are not works of the Law.
They are all essential components of a Christian's life.
No man will be saved without having faith.

Those for whom He died are cleansed by His Blood by His One offering of Himself, that purified them from sin Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

 

[brightfame52]

Which is it going to be ?
Obedience to God, or faith in a calvinism that discounts obedience to God ?
You gotta believe one or the other.
So either way you must have faith in order to be saved.

You condition your salvation on your obedience, its apostacy.

 

[JJonas]

You are in effect saying that a man washed by the blood of Christ is still walking after the flesh.
Your doctrine is an accommodation for sin.

The Bible testifies that carnal christians do exist: 1Co 3:1-3. Those carnal christians where rebuked, corrected by Paul, so that that it produced sadness in them that leads them to repentance: 2 Corinthiens 7:7-12. Indeed as children of God we are subject to His chastening, which first produces sadness, but then yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness (Heb. 12:4-11).

The atoning, sanctifying, justifying, blood of Christ is applied to us when we are water baptized into Christ and into His death and burial. (Rom 6:3-4)

(...) in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. There is also an antitype which now saves us — baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Pet. 20b-21)

In accordance to Tit. 3:4-5, a possible interpretation is that the baptism represents the regeneration (or new birth), and that it is this regeneration that saves us: But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing [baptism] of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit

The Word of God with its cleansing effect is also compared with the water: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing [baptism] of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. (Eph 5:26-27; comp. John 13:3-10; 15:3; 17:17)

You quoted Rom 6:3-4 which speaks about being baptized into Jesus Christ (...) into His death. I find it interesting to compare it with Luke 12:50: But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

1 Pet. 1:23 also says that we are born again by the Word of God. Therefore I believe that the water baptism is a figure that represents a spiritual reality, namely, that the individual has already been regenerated by the Word of God. I see water baptism as a public act of obedience, that testifies that the individual is now born again. It is however legitimate to ask, why someone would refuse this act of obedience while affirming to be a believer!

 

[Hopeful 2]

Those for whom He died are cleansed by His Blood by His One offering of Himself, that purified them from sin Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

That only holds true from the perspective of those who have repented of sin and been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their past sins.
All of them have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus.
Jesus died for all mankind, but not all of mankind is interested in living without sin.
The cleansing agent is available to everyone.
But we have to act on it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You condition your salvation on your obedience, its apostacy.

You condition your salvation on faith in Calvin.
That is apostacy.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The Bible testifies that carnal christians do exist: 1Co 3:1-3. Those carnal christians where rebuked, corrected by Paul, so that that it produced sadness in them that leads them to repentance: 2 Corinthiens 7:7-12. Indeed as children of God we are subject to His chastening, which first produces sadness, but then yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness (Heb. 12:4-11).

If they are still carnal, they have neither repented of sin nor been reborn of God's seed.
Christians walk after, and in the Spirit, not the "flesh".

(...) in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. There is also an antitype which now saves us — baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Pet. 20b-21)

Can't you see the connection between the resurrection of Christ and our inclusion in that resurrection ?
Rom 6 says we are immersed into Christ, and into His death and burial by our baptism into Him.
Having done those two things, we are also raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
With out His resurrection, we would have remained buried with Him.
With it, we become new creatures.

In accordance to Tit. 3:4-5, a possible interpretation is that the baptism represents the regeneration (or new birth), and that it is this regeneration that saves us: But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing [baptism] of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit

No baptism into Christ...no regeneration.

The Word of God with its cleansing effect is also compared with the water: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing [baptism] of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. (Eph 5:26-27; comp. John 13:3-10; 15:3; 17:17)

No cleansing by the blood of Christ/water baptism...no regeneration.

You quoted Rom 6:3-4 which speaks about being baptized into Jesus Christ (...) into His death. I find it interesting to compare it with Luke 12:50: But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Yeah, they both have the word "baptize" in them.

1 Pet. 1:23 also says that we are born again by the Word of God. Therefore I believe that the water baptism is a figure that represents a spiritual reality, namely, that the individual has already been regenerated by the Word of God. I see water baptism as a public act of obedience, that testifies that the individual is now born again. It is however legitimate to ask, why someone would refuse this act of obedience while affirming to be a believer!

As long as it has allowed you to forego sinning, fine.
If it hasn't, it is time to look for other means and ways to attain sanctity.
Quit looking for figures and go by what is written.
Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

 

[brightfame52]

That only holds true from the perspective of those who have repented of sin and been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their past sins.
All of them have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus.
Jesus died for all mankind, but not all of mankind is interested in living without sin.
The cleansing agent is available to everyone.
But we have to act on it.

Those for whom He died are cleansed by His Blood by His One offering of Himself, that purified them from sin Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

 

[brightfame52]

You condition your salvation on faith in Calvin.
That is apostacy.

Apostacy is when one conditions salvation on the acts of men, and deny Christ. Just like you deny Christ has cleansed them He died for from all their sins, and sat down after doing so Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

You say thats not sufficient, man must do something to make it finished ! That denies the Glory of Christ !

 

[Hopeful 2]

Those for whom He died are cleansed by His Blood by His One offering of Himself, that purified them from sin Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

God wants all men to be saved. (1 Tim 2:4)
Calvin doesn't.
I will have faith in God instead of in Calvin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Apostacy is when one conditions salvation on the acts of men, and deny Christ. Just like you deny Christ has cleansed them He died for from all their sins, and sat down after doing so Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

You say thats not sufficient, man must do something to make it finished ! That denies the Glory of Christ !

Apostacy is when one follows a man's teachings instead of following God's teachings.
IF WE WON'T, believe, have faith, repent of sin, get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sin, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and endure faithfully until the end, we will not be saved.
WE will be the ones judged on the last day for our actions.
WE have been given a list of things to do here on earth, to be saved.
It starts with loving God with all of our heart, strength, mind and soul; and is followed by loving out neighbors as we love ourselves.
Your apostacy denies all that Jesus came to teach us.