Robert Hern
Member
Was he saved?
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
John the Baptist
- Thread starter Robert Hern
- Start date
Robert Hern
Member
If JTB who died before the resurrection of Jesus was saved, does that mean others, besides the prophets, will be saved before Christ was crucified?
smaller
Member
A prophet of God get's beheaded and some will claim such not saved.
Pathetic, but unfortunately typical.
Sinthesis
Member
John the Baptist is saved.
'How' and 'when', not to mention 'why', can be argued over, but luckily John's salvation was not left to us.
smaller
Member
"John was not saved-"
Held in stasis til the cross then? Still waiting perhaps?
It's always interesting to see what's at the bottom of such matters.
Luke 20:
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
Pre cross statement.
stovebolts
Member
My friend and Brother in Christ. There is no reason to doubt that John wasn't saved. A closer study of Hebrew 11:39-40 makes the point that we are all under faith. As far as Heb 10:4, I believe it is much like what Peter says about baptism. One is not saved because they are dunked in a tank of water and all the right words are said. Peter says it must be done with a good conscience etc..
Leviticus 4:20 Thus shall he do with the bullock; as he did with the bullock of the sin-offering, so shall he do with this; and the priest shall make atonement for them, and they shall be forgiven.
Leviticus 4:26 And all the fat thereof shall he burn upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace-offerings; and the priest shall make atonement for him as concerning his sin, and he shall be forgiven.
Leviticus 4:31 And all the fat thereof shall he take away, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace-offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savor unto Jehovah; and the priest shall make atonement for him, and he shall be forgiven.
Leviticus 4:35 and all the fat thereof shall he take away, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of peace-offerings; and the priest shall burn them on the altar, upon the offerings of Jehovah made by fire; and the priest shall make atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned, and he shall be forgiven.
Leviticus 5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt-offering, according to the ordinance; and the priest shall make atonement for him as concerning his sin which he hath sinned, and he shall be forgiven.
Leviticus 5:16 and he shall make restitution for that which he hath done amiss in the holy thing, and shall add the fifth part thereto, and give it unto the priest; and the priest shall make atonement for him with the ram of the trespass-offering, and he shall be forgiven.
Leviticus 5:18 And he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, according to thy estimation, for a trespass-offering, unto the priest; and the priest shall make atonement for him concerning the thing wherein he erred unwittingly and knew it not, and he shall be forgiven.
Leviticus 6:7 and the priest shall make atonement for him before Jehovah; and he shall be forgiven concerning whatsoever he doeth so as to be guilty thereby.
Leviticus 19:22 And the priest shall make atonement for him with the ram of the trespass-offering before Jehovah for his sin which he hath sinned: and the sin which he hath sinned shall be forgiven him.
Smaller, if you insist on answering my post please do so faithfully. What I said was in post 5. I did not say "John was not saved" and stop there. You have not only the problem of not "rightly dividing the word of truth" (God's word) but the writings of mere humans. Now, you tell us, did John live under the law of Moses? Yes or No? Could the blood of animals save? Yes or no? Your reference to Lk.20:37,38 has nothing to say about the time when John's salvation (or any under the old law for that matter) became reality.
Answer this: Could anyone under the old law be saved by the blood of animals (Heb.10:4)?? I know of only ONE ( 1 ) way any could but I shall leave it to you to discover it, if you can.
God bless
Answer this: Could anyone under the old law be saved by the blood of animals (Heb.10:4)?? I know of only ONE ( 1 ) way any could but I shall leave it to you to discover it, if you can.
God bless
I believe every passage quoted by my brother (Stovebolts), the fact remains that Heb.10:4 says: "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins". Vs 3 says the sacricices under the law were remembered each year, not actually forgiven, but remembered. There remained yet the sacrifice of Jesus ( see the following verses in Heb. 10. Heb.10:11,12 reads: "And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which CAN NEVER TAKE AWAY SINS.(emp. mine) but this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God." Read Heb.11:39,40. The forgiveness of sin for those faithful nder the old covenant did not, and could not become a reality until the cross. Baptism is for the "remission of sins" (Acts 2:38) and Heb.10:18 reads: "Now where there is remissin of these, thereis no longer an offering for sin."
A
Asyncritus
Guest
The question about John's salvation is answered by the Lord;
Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Note that the passages quoted by SB all say that their sins 'shall be forgiven them' or words to that effect.
It doesn't say 'when'.
It is, as Webb has been saying, that the blood of bulls and goats did no good.
Therefore, the 'when' question must be answered by: 'at the sacrifice and resurrection of Christ'.
Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Note that the passages quoted by SB all say that their sins 'shall be forgiven them' or words to that effect.
It doesn't say 'when'.
It is, as Webb has been saying, that the blood of bulls and goats did no good.
Therefore, the 'when' question must be answered by: 'at the sacrifice and resurrection of Christ'.
smaller
Member
Fact is you have no clue at what point John was saved. It is only speculation on your part that he was not, and that largely to uphold some underlying positions you hold.
Many do the throw down on the Gospel NOT being spoken under Law, which is also nonsense.
Who says that is all that is contained in those matters? A principle of God is that fruit arises from ashes. The principle of division is also deployed therein. God did not take delight in that showing for naught but to kill animals.
Abraham saw himself in that light, and God respects that sight, even reasoning with him. Sacrifice in general was a showing of obedience in those who practiced same on many levels.
Genesis 18:27
And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the LORD, which am but dust and ashes
And to say that these things were not a shadow?
Again, your claim is that no man of faith lived past the grave until the resurrection. I'd consider that God Is the God of the Living, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob LIVED unto God, as well as the greatest prophet, John.
You raise a false standard as the basis of John's salvation.
The just in the Old Testament lived by faith just as all in faith so live.
s
O
Osgiliath
Guest
Amen Sinth
Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God."
E
elijah23
Guest
Yes, I'm sure he was. What sin was he committing?
Hello Smaller
The question is NOT are those OT worthys saved, the question is WHEN were they saved. You wrote: "Fact is you have no clue at what point John was saved." I take the position John and other OT worthys were saved at the "point" of the cross of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. And I will ask you: IF NOT, WHY NOT? Please answer.
You still refuse to answer the question, did John live under the law of Moses? yes or no? Please answer!
You still refuse to answer the question: "Could the blood of animans save? Yes or no? Please answer!
You said: "Sacrifice in general was a showing of obedience in those who practiced same on many levels." I agree. So what? Heb.10:4 still reads the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sin.
Whever the point you try to make about "dust and ashes" is about I declare I do not know, it must be a smokescreen.
You write: "Again, your claim is that no man of faith lived past the grave until the resurrection." No sir, that is NOT my claim, you simply wish it were.
And you conclude: "The just in the Old Testament lived by faith just as all in faith so live." Of course they did, and of course we today do. Whatever gave you the idea I don't believe that.
For the 2nd time, please answer the above questions.
God bless
The question is NOT are those OT worthys saved, the question is WHEN were they saved. You wrote: "Fact is you have no clue at what point John was saved." I take the position John and other OT worthys were saved at the "point" of the cross of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. And I will ask you: IF NOT, WHY NOT? Please answer.
You still refuse to answer the question, did John live under the law of Moses? yes or no? Please answer!
You still refuse to answer the question: "Could the blood of animans save? Yes or no? Please answer!
You said: "Sacrifice in general was a showing of obedience in those who practiced same on many levels." I agree. So what? Heb.10:4 still reads the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sin.
Whever the point you try to make about "dust and ashes" is about I declare I do not know, it must be a smokescreen.
You write: "Again, your claim is that no man of faith lived past the grave until the resurrection." No sir, that is NOT my claim, you simply wish it were.
And you conclude: "The just in the Old Testament lived by faith just as all in faith so live." Of course they did, and of course we today do. Whatever gave you the idea I don't believe that.
For the 2nd time, please answer the above questions.
God bless