Justified by the faith of Jesus Christ.

[Deborah13]

Phil 3:8-9

8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,


9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

The True Believer like Paul here counts all their righteousness but dung, and have been given to see Christ as their sole righteousness provider. The True believers hope and righteousness is not their Faith neither is it their repentance, which are both given by the Spirit and Grace of God Phil 1:29 and Acts 5:31.

All their hope is in the doing, the dying of their Surety the Lord Jesus Christ, for it was He who answered all the claims of the Divine Justice against them. It was not their Faith or act of believing nor their repentance [ change of mind] that secured their eternal redemption and perfect righteous standing before God, yet those precious gifts of Grace are bestowed upon them because forgiveness and righteousness has been accomplished by their Surety.

Its by regenerating grace which produces the New Birth by the Spirit we are more than Thankful for those precious gifts [faith and repentance] but our trust is not in those gifts, but the giver of the Them, God through Jesus Christ our Lord, for in the giving of Him, He bestowed upon us all things for life and Salvation Rom 8:31-32

31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

"For by grace ye are saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God." Eph 2:8
It's not about us, it's all about Jesus, what He did at the cross and raised from the dead. We cannot take credit for anything, it's all God. His faith, His righteousness, His love, His obedience. Humbling isn't it?

 

[farouk]

"For by grace ye are saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God." Eph 2:8
It's not about us, it's all about Jesus, what He did at the cross and raised from the dead. We cannot take credit for anything, it's all God. His faith, His righteousness, His love, His obedience. Humbling isn't it?

Deborah:

Great verse.

Yes, it's all of grace.

Blessings.

 

[John 8:32]

Throughout, MAN is told to follow God. God is not told to MAKE man to follow God!!! According to YOU, God demands something that men cannot POSSIBLY do!!! That is a just God????



Yes, when God gave the law He knew man was not capable of fulfilling the law even in his own life let alone others. The law was given for exactly that reason to show us we couldn't be righteous.

Not exactly...

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Here is a very quick overview of God's plan...

God created a Lightbringer (Lucifer)
Lucifer decided he did not want to obey God...

Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Lawlessness.

So God created man. A physical air-breathing creature that could die. God was not about to create another immortal being that would be evil.

Of course, God knew that man, on his own, could not obey and live perfectly, else this verse would not be in the Bible...

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Christ's sacrifice was planned from the very beginning, it was not a "Oh what do we do now?" It was planned all along.

Man was created, man was tempted and man disobeyed. God planned for that, He knew it would happen. It occurred so that the lessons that Lucifer failed to learn...

Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

What was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Taking that fruit symbolized being the moral authority. Determining right from wrong for ourselves and everyone of us has done that.

What is right and wrong? Paul plainly tells us...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The Ten Commandments tell us right from wrong. We do not get to determine that for ourselves. The first lesson in the Garden was do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

So man is learning that terrible lesson the hard way. All the pain, misery and suffering in the world today is directly attributable to sin. What is sin?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Now can man keep the law perfectly? There are many NT scriptures that reveal this, but I want to try to use some that perhaps aren't so well known...

Jer 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jer 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

So, man cannot order his steps on his own and is a sinner...

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

So when we sin (remember that sin is breaking the law) what do we do? Die?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

This is where Christ's sacrifice comes in...

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

So, upon genuine repentance...

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

God forgives sin and gives us the Holy Spirit to live according to His laws and ways. Christ lives to intercede for us when we sin...

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

And the Holy Spirit leads us in God's way...

Psa 119:133 Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

God is not about to give this precious gift, the down payment on eternal life...

2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

to those who would repeat the same evils that Satan did. He will not give eternal life to someone who will be another demon, evil spirit. Rather they will die.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We would always stumble (even crash and burn). If this is not true then the Christ died for nothing. We wouldn't need Him at all.
It appears that you are angry? Why?
I think we do have to be in perfect righteous, as you put it.
How would you know what things you can get away with and still go to heaven? ALL sin is the same. Jesus said if they broken one of the some 613 laws they had broken them all. That doesn't even leave room to wiggle.

An everyone of has broken one, so we are guilty of all.

 

[savedbygrace57]

"For by grace ye are saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God." Eph 2:8
It's not about us, it's all about Jesus, what He did at the cross and raised from the dead. We cannot take credit for anything, it's all God. His faith, His righteousness, His love, His obedience. Humbling isn't it?

Yes,if you really believe what you are saying. So you must be a universalist, you believe everyone without exception will be saved by Christ since you give Him all the Credit ?

Also the post you quoted of mine in post 281, you did not address any points, could you please do that as well ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Jn 6:40 Who is it that See's the Son and believes ?


Jn 6:40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Who is it that seeth the Son as to Trust in Him and Believe in Him for all of Salvation and Eternal Life ; it is those who first have had their eyes opened Acts 26:18

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

The eyes of spiritual understanding Eph 1:18

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Which hope is preached in the Gospel Col 1:23

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Seeing the Son spiritually is required before and unto believing on Him unto everlasting Life. This confirms new Birth before Faith !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Faith unto Salvation

Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Faith unto Salvation or Believing on Christ Acts 16:31

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

This type of converting Faith does not come by the natural man exercising his so called freewill and getting saved thereby, but it [faith or believing on Christ] is the result of the Spirit's Illumination of Christ to spiritual faculties, for except this be the case, none could savingly believe on Christ. The enlightened sinner has spiritual eyes opened to see the spiritual suitableness and preciousness of Jesus Christ Jn 6:40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The seeing there is not a physical seeing, but a careful mental, attentive seeing with spiritual faculties.

Its a beholding of the Son,

Its defined also as:

of important persons that are looked on with admiration

Also to see Him as Precious 1 Pet 2:7

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

The word precious here means: praise of which one is Judged worthy, and its this spiritual estimation of Him that calls forth believing in Him, and this is foreign to the natural will of man !

The Spirit in His Illumination Work, His Revealing Work, is also called the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the Knowledge of Him, Christ Eph 1:17,18

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

He it is that which prepares us for the Understanding of Divine Truth set forth in the Gospel Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

In the order that we may know the Hope of Our Calling in the Gospel Vs 18

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

2 Thess 2:14

Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is what means in Jn 16:13-14

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine [The Head], and shall shew it unto you [ My Church the Body].

There must be a prepatory working of the Holy Spirit before we can Believe on Him savingly or in conversion, Faith is a revealing of Christ into the heart and soul of a Person Gal 1:15-16

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

When He is revealed in us, then we Believe on Him !

 

[Mitspa]

Faith unto Salvation

Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Faith unto Salvation or Believing on Christ Acts 16:31

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

This type of converting Faith does not come by the natural man exercising his so called freewill and getting saved thereby, but it [faith or believing on Christ] is the result of the Spirit's Illumination of Christ to spiritual faculties, for except this be the case, none could savingly believe on Christ. The enlightened sinner has spiritual eyes opened to see the spiritual suitableness and preciousness of Jesus Christ Jn 6:40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The seeing there is not a physical seeing, but a careful mental, attentive seeing with spiritual faculties.

Its a beholding of the Son,

Its defined also as:

of important persons that are looked on with admiration

Also to see Him as Precious 1 Pet 2:7

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

The word precious here means: praise of which one is Judged worthy, and its this spiritual estimation of Him that calls forth believing in Him, and this is foreign to the natural will of man !

The Spirit in His Illumination Work, His Revealing Work, is also called the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the Knowledge of Him, Christ Eph 1:17,18

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

He it is that which prepares us for the Understanding of Divine Truth set forth in the Gospel Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

In the order that we may know the Hope of Our Calling in the Gospel Vs 18

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

2 Thess 2:14

Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is what means in Jn 16:13-14

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine [The Head], and shall shew it unto you [ My Church the Body].

There must be a prepatory working of the Holy Spirit before we can Believe on Him savingly or in conversion, Faith is a revealing of Christ into the heart and soul of a Person Gal 1:15-16

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

When He is revealed in us, then we Believe on Him !

Wow such a good post!

 

[savedbygrace57]

Faith to believe in Christ for Salvation is but one of the many "all spiritual blessings" God has Blessed us With in time, due to the choosing us in Christ before the foundation of the World, and for this it is stated, that in behalf of Christ, it has been given not only to believe on Him, but also to persevere under trial and suffering Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

This means also that those who fall away because of persecution of the Word as here Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.


Lk 8:13 says

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Those that fall away makes it manifest that they could not have been the ones who it was Given to Believe on Him and Suffer for His sake as in Phil 1:29 !

 

[Randy]

The work done for the forgiveness of sin was performed by Jesus. While I do think we need to open the door He knocks on by a sincere faith we can't do anything to earn the forgiveness of sin. As Jesus informed Paul at Paul's appointment " I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’


What work did the man on the cross next to Jesus do to have his sins forgiven?
He asked and received a positive response from the one who judges. (Jesus) The other man who didn't believe and mocked Jesus did not receive any response.

Now if our sins are forgiven by the one who has authority to forgive sins (Jesus) there is no guilt. A righteousness received by faith in Jesus. That is how God chose to forgive sin. The wise play/compete by Gods rules. Meaning Jesus is our Lord and Christ and all need to go to Him for eternal life. As the Son lives by the living Father we shall by the Son.

R.

 

[savedbygrace57]

randy

The work done for the forgiveness of sin was performed by Jesus. While I do
think we need to open the door He knocks on by a sincere faith we can't do
anything to earn the forgiveness of sin. As Jesus informed Paul at Paul's
appointment " I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I
am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to
light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness
of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Do you understand the points I made in post 288 ?

 

[Mitspa]

The work done for the forgiveness of sin was performed by Jesus. While I do think we need to open the door He knocks on by a sincere faith we can't do anything to earn the forgiveness of sin. As Jesus informed Paul at Paul's appointment " I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’


What work did the man on the cross next to Jesus do to have his sins forgiven?
He asked and received a positive response from the one who judges. (Jesus) The other man who didn't believe and mocked Jesus did not receive any response.

Now if our sins are forgiven by the one who has authority to forgive sins (Jesus) there is no guilt. A righteousness received by faith in Jesus. That is how God chose to forgive sin. The wise play/compete by Gods rules. Meaning Jesus is our Lord and Christ and all need to go to Him for eternal life. As the Son lives by the living Father we shall by the Son.

R.

Good post Randy! Faith to you and to others on this forum may mean different things? Some "believe" that they believe? For most of us we just believe in Him alone with simple childlike faith. I seen you was new on the forum and thought I would let you in on the "hidden faith" , "faithless grace" etc.. God Bless- Mitspa

 

[Randy]

randy






Do you understand the points I made in post 288 ?

I am "freewill" I was steered to Jesus from my beginning by my christian mother. So as far back as I can remember I have always believed in Jesus. So while I might consider it a blessing to have christian parents I don't believe I was chosen by God to believe before I was born. At one point I believed in Santa where did that faith come from?

Randy

 

[savedbygrace57]

I am "freewill" I was steered to Jesus from my beginning by my christian mother. So as far back as I can remember I have always believed in Jesus. So while I might consider it a blessing to have christian parents I don't believe I was chosen by God to believe before I was born. At one point I believed in Santa where did that faith come from?

Randy

See ya at the Judgment !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Union with Christ before believing in Him !

Before any man or woman can believe in or on Christ regarding Justification or Salvation, they must first be in Union with Him Spiritually, that is already abiding in Him, we know this by Christ's words here Jn 15:5

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Jesus alludes to the same truth here Jn 6:56

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

The eating and drinking here signifies believing or appropriating Christ by Faith, and Jesus said, the ones doing that, are dwelling or abiding in Him, and He is in them ! That denotes Pre Union !

In other words, their believing is the fruit of being in Him and Him being in them by Spiritual New Birth. We must first be a branch in the Vine before we can bear fruit, and Faith is one of the Fruits of the Spirit Gal 5:22 !

The Ground must first be made good before the Gospel message can take root and bring forth fruit Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Notice the words here bringeth forth, meaning fruit and observe the same in Jn 15:5

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Without Christ, separate from we can do nothing, spiritually as to believe or rest in Him for all of Salvation !

So before believing, one must be already united to Christ, we must be, before we can believe in Him !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Scripture is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ is the author [causer] of our Faith and the Finisher Heb 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

That word author is the greek word archēgos and means:


the chief leader, prince

a) of Christ

2) one that takes the lead in any thing and thus affords an example, a predecessor in a matter, pioneer

3) the author

Now this word is made up of Two greek words one is archē and means:


beginning, origin

2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader

3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause

4) the extremity of a thing

a) of the corners of a sail

5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy

a) of angels and demons

Now Jesus Christ is the First active cause of our Faith. Now understand, the writer is not only speaking of believers under the New Covenant, but also of all the believers under the Old Covenant as outlined in Chapter 11 of Hebrews. Yes, He was the Author of their Faith even though He had not yet became incarnate, Yet He was still their Mediator and Surety before His Incarnation and so was the Author and Finisher of their Faith, the Captain of their Salvation !

But I said all that to bring up this, in order for Christ to be the Author of our Faith and to communicate it to us, there had to be a Union with Him prior to, as the branch must be united to the root before it can bring forth fruit Jn 15:4-5

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

 

[savedbygrace57]

If it is being taught that one must first believe in order to get eternal life, then we fall into salvation by works, based upon the same principle of Law under the Old Covenant which is do and Live, much like those jews who were ignorant of Salvation by Grace Rom 10:4-5

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

The principle here is that if men must do to live ! Yes, if there is no life until we believe, then thats works !

However, the Covenant of Grace is the opposite, for in it men must first live in order to do, for God in this Covenant first gives Life, and from that comes the doing ! Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit[Life] will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit[New Life Principle] within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

But, if one must first do to get new Life and a New Spirit and a New Heart, that is reverted back to the Old Covenant principle of works and Law !

Now many will say, that believing or Faith is the opposite to works Rom 4:4-5

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now when faith or believing is opposed to works, it is understood objectively, that is, it is understood of Christ believed on as the object of faith after He is revealed to one in the Gospel as their Righteousness, and not the act of believing, for without a doubt, ones act of believing is just as much as our doing as ones act of love, So again, if we must first do, act, perform before we obtain life in Christ, we are back to Law !

 

[Grazer]

I think the word "believe" is getting confused with something else. Let's take Romans 10:9;

Romans 10:9 NIV

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Now there are a few things going on here. One is a statement about something that has already happened. God has raised Jesus from the dead. Believing or disbelieving it does not alter that it happened. The very fact it has happened allows us to be saved, God has initiated it. But there's another element and that's how we respond. Paul is very clear here for me. We need to believe but why? It comes down to relationship. Jesus says in John 14;

John 14:6 NIV

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

We have to have a relationship with Christ and Paul has already told us how that is possible. Once we have that relationship, Paul tells us;

Romans 8:1 NIV

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

But unless you believe as Paul lays out, a relationship with Christ is impossible. We can't say "I don't believe Jesus is Lord and I don't believe God raised him from the dead but I still have a relationship with Jesus" It's impossible for that statement to be true, it makes no sense.

So what is meant by works? I'm convinced Paul is referring to law of Moses.

Galatians 5:2-5 NIV

Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.

In the NLT translation, verse 3 says "all of the regulations in the whole law of Moses"

Paul in his letter to the Romans outlines why the law is powerless to make us right with God;

Romans 8:3-4 NIV

For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

We cannot earn salvation, we accept it as a gift but to even be in a position to understand that there's even a gift on offer, we have to believe God is offering one and we go back to the beginning of this post.

That's just my ham fisted approach on this issue

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

 

[smaller]

I think the word "believe" is getting confused with something else. Let's take Romans 10:9;

Romans 10:9 NIV

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

We have to have a relationship with Christ and Paul has already told us how that is possible.

Very legitimate observation.

The only difficulty within theology is that the relationship comes to imperfect partially sighted co-parts (wives in the spiritual sense,) all vying for the Husbands Perfection.

And we wonder why there is such a cackle?

ha!

s

s

 

[Mitspa]

See ya at the Judgment !

Yep, here is the gospel! :toofunny

So "Christlike"?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Faith to believe on Christ !


2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Peter in this scripture does inform us where precious Faith comes from ! Its certainly not of ourselves Eph 2:8.

It comes in or with the Righteousness of God and Our Saviour, this Righteousness is the free gift that Christ purchased and bestows upon all for whom He died Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

This Righteousness as well as that referred to in 2 Pet 1:1 is the imparted Righteousness of Christ we receive at New Birth. It is through this imparted or communicated Righteousness at New Birth we receive of, that with it we are given precious Faith.

Peter goes on to say 2 Pet 1:3-4

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Faith or precious Faith is of the many things Given to us by New Birth which gives us to live a life of godliness !

So 2 Pet 1:1 is but another scripture that proves biblically that Faith is the product of New Birth, partaking experimentally of the Divine Nature !