Laziness Killing Us

[mcorton]

My wife and I celebrated our 4th anniversary in December. I love her very much and am happy with our relationship in many ways but a few things are destroying us and me emotionally. We met online in a Christian singles group. I was a single dad at that time and she had never been married before. She lived with her brother so she came to my house on the weekends. I had no way of knowing her housekeeping skills.

She won't do any house cleaning at all. My mother was an immaculant housekeeper. Almost to a fault. I like a clean healthy environment. She knew that but decided that wasn't important enough to mention. I'm very serious, if I didn't clean the house, do the dishes, it would never get done. She'd just buy new dishes.

She also drove my car for a few months without telling me she didn't have a valid drivers license. My insurance company told me when they canceled my policy.

We got a bit off topic here but it hurts me that I have to be the only housekeeper so my wife can read. I really feel like her love is for her own benefit.

I'm really not sure what to do and what as a Christian I'm allowed to do. I do know I can't live in filth which is what I live in when I don't clean the house myself. But if I don't clean the house myself I will live in filth because she will not even use a trashbag.

 

[Pizzaguy]

She also drove my car for a few months without telling me she didn't have a valid drivers license. My insurance company told me when they canceled my policy.

I had hints that my new wife was .... well, I had doubts. Married her anyway because I loved her dearly and I'm stupid - I thought love would get us thru anything.

I was wrong. I ran into SERIOUS stuff like what you are describing right away.
I left in under three months.

I am somewhat taken by the fact that FOUR YEARS into this you are just now finding stuff out. (Is that right? WHen did the Driver's License thing come up?)

It APPEARS to me that you have been deceived, again, not enough to go on in your short post, but if you are with a person who drives without a license and keeps this from you - your life from here on out will be difficult at best. Grounds for divorce, I suspect.

But again, I am speaking without really KNOWING the facts. Laziness is one thing, and it's bad enough - but deceit and lawlessness will be VERY costly.

 

[dobro]

I think you need to pray and ask the Lord for the answers. I myself am married with three children and sometimes the house is in a shambles and I have to raise my voice for anything to happen. It doesnt help living in a western nation where we have everything. I believe satan is destroying families through prosperity. Slothfulness is the modern mans disease. In my situation if my wife compromised the health of our children I would consider leaving her but I would go with her to some form of christian counselling. I dont believe in divorce. I think the issue here is spiritual someone who understands the cleansing blood of Jesus would never live in uncleanliness because the holy spirit teaches us how to live. Just hang in there talk to her show her scriptures love her, pray and let God do the work according to his will and purpose.

 

[Pizzaguy]

It doesnt help living in a western nation where we have everything. I believe satan is destroying families through prosperity.

Just hang in there talk to her show her scriptures love her, pray and let God do the work according to his will and purpose.

1) Prosperity IS destructive.

2) Showing great, kind, forgiving and understanding love to a woman can accomplish a lot. After four years of you not being happy, I would think that such an expression by you would have a great impact on her. You might try it, but I am still very concerned over this "no driver's license and she didn't tell me" thing. Something is way wrong here.

 

[Mike]

Mcorton, I hope you don't take offense to this, but my first response in reading OP's like this is always, "What would the other person say?" That's why marriage counseling is so much better when both participate. We could easily form a jaded opinion of her based on 1/2 of the story. It could be that you're spot on, but my guess is that she could be telling people another side of the story and convincing them that you are not fulfilling your roll as the husband. Her listeners would do well not to form an opinion based on her story alone either. I'm afraid that even if you are to respond that she won't participate in dual counseling, that would still be your side. I've been in numerous situations where I've been convinced one person was clearly at fault until I heard what they had to say. It's never been the complete fault of either person.

Without getting into specifics, I'm compelled to remind you that you made a vow to her AND God. I wouldn't hold it against you, just as I hold nothing against Pizzaguy, if you chose to leave, but that would be my first response. I'm more of a neat-freak than my wife. Though there isn't the disparity that there might be between you and your wife, I still had a lot of adjusting to do. I believe men who were blessed to know and live with their mothers can't help but form an opinion of how their wives should manage their house. But, they're two different people. I assume you married her because you loved her, and I would try to force yourself to focus on those things and less time grimacing about her shortcomings. Somewhere, there's a healthy median between not being too task-oriented and not being to lazy. Sometimes leaving certain things undone is just a way of being content and not forgetting to enjoy life. I don't know. I'm just allowing for the other side of the story.

 

[Pizzaguy]

To add to what Mike said, I am kind of a neat freak.... but then, WHY is it ALWAYS so important that the table be cleared and dishes done right after a meal??

It's been a long day, we fix the meal and eat - what's wrong with cleaning up the kitchen in the morning and spending that time right after dinner being together and talking or whatever???

That bugged me in my last marriage and it bugs me with the lady I am seeing now. It's not a BIG deal, just that I wonder about priorities sometimes.

In any event, putting two lives together is not always (maybe not ever) easy. But being alone forever isn't alltogether easy or good, either.

 

[Nathan]

Well I hear you. My wife could tell you a very humbling story about this. It is not one I am proud of by any means either.

Before either of us had come to know Christ we had some real ruff times in our marriage. In fact, if it was not the simple decision of us to never even consider divorce we probably would have.

Here is my point. I find it interesting the distinction we see in the love for our wife's verses the love we have toward our children. My wife would always get made at me for saying that if we were all in a boat and it was capsized, I would save her from the water before I would our children.

The point behind this is she comes first. No matter what. It is the way it is spoken of in the NT and the way it is spoken of from the beginning. What it also does is cause you to look at things from her perspective. I am not saying what is going on with you is not real, but what I am saying is that it IS real.

It is what it is. I cannot say how or what happened with my wife and I. Some how or another it just worked out. She said that when I spoke out this one time it caused her to think about things. I think it is deeper than that. I think it also has to do with the fact she knows that no matter what I am committed to her and our relationship. We have hard times together. We are completely opposite on a LOT of things. But even if she was not committed to me at all, I made up my mind from the beginning that I would be committed to her.

Its ok to get angry with her. Its ok to be mad. But if those things happen you MUST also talk with her. I yelled and said some very hateful things to my wife when I had to walk over our filth for weeks on end. I am ashamed of it. But through it all it was my dedication to her that must have been the brightest light around.

Let her know how you feel. Talk with her. Have an argument. But never even let the idea that 'separating' is the answer. Thank God He does not so quickly think like that toward us.

 

[handy]

What Mike said about there being two sides is important.

There is one thing I read in your OP:
"My mother was an immaculant housekeeper. Almost to a fault." You also said, "I like a clean healthy environment."

There could be a chance that she feels very defeated by a "my mother always did this, what's wrong with you" attitude. You might not think you are sending this attitude, but you very well might be.

Is it possible that earlier in your marriage, she did housekeeping to her standards, found they fell woefully short of yours and gave up? Has it ever happened that she has cleaned up the place, and you went through and cleaned it up again because she didn't clean it as well as you thought she should? Has she went through the living room and tidied it up, putting things away, then figured she was done, just to have you go through and dust and vacuum, chores she was planning on doing later in the week?

Seriously, give this some thought.

I dated a guy. Went on two dates with him. The reason we didn't go on a third was because on our second date, we met at his place before going off to where ever it was that we were going to and had some iced tea. His place was immaculate. You could almost see a reflection in his floor. We were sort of running late, so I, who grew up with an ex-Navy Dad who was a bear about promptness, was saying "Let's go." But, before we could leave the house, he had to fill his sink with soapy water, wash two iced tea glasses and one spoon. Dry the glasses and spoon and put them away, rinse off and dry the dish drainer, wash the sink out and then scrub it with Comet, dry the sink with the towel and hang the towel up.

His reasoning for going through all of that instead of just putting the glasses and spoon in the sink was that it was unhygienic to leave dirty dishes.

This is why I highlighted the "I like a clean healthy environment" statement. Because really, it truly isn't all that unhealthy to let the dishes pile for the evening and do them in the morning or leave the laundry until Saturday. Does the place look a little messy? Yeah, but it's not unhealthy.

You said that if you didn't do the dishes, she would just buy new ones. Really? Has she actually done this? Has she actually thrown away dirty dishes or clothes and bought new because she didn't want to do dishes or laundry?

So, without knowing either of you, it's hard to say whether or not you are almost OCD about cleanliness or your wife has a problem.

If she truly has thrown out dirty dishes to buy new, or thrown out dirty clothing simply because she didn't want to wash dishes or do laundry, then she might have more serious problem, one that should be discussed with one's doctor, because that is truly outside of normal.

Or, it could be that she has just never been taught how to clean up, and feels intimidated by your standard of cleanliness so just let's you do it. Have you ever asked her who did the housekeeping chores when she grew up? What kind of house does your in-laws have? It is immaculate, messy, or a good candidate for "Hoarders"?

When you say that she won't even use a trash bag, does this mean that she just leaves garbage where ever and never picks it up. What does she do with things like used Kleenex, used sanitary napkins, empty cans of soup? If she is truly just leaving these things on the floor, if your house could really, in all honesty be a candidate for "Hoarders", then you need to seek professional help for her.

With all due respect for everyone who has contributed to this thread...and believe me, I have a lot of respect for all who have...I do not see any biblical reasons for divorce here. However, I do see why divorce might seem a logical, if not biblical answer. But, God truly does hate divorce, and divorce truly should be the last resort in this situation.

The first thing you need to do is have a good sit down discussion with her and ask her if she finds your level of cleanliness overwhelming, unrealistic, or just stupid. Ask her if you've put so much pressure on her about the house work that she just gave up and let's you do it. Listen carefully to her answers.

Then, I would really appreciate it if you would share with us what those answers are. Because it's really difficult to know what would be the best advice without know her side of the story here.
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[WIP]

Do we enter marriage for personal gain or because we love and cherish another and want to do everything within reason to please that person?

In our home it seems we go through periods when the household chores just seem to change hands. I can't begin to tell you how long it has been since I had to run a load of laundry. My wife has been handling that for quite a long time and it's not because of some arrangement we have or anything. I do recall that for quite some time prior I was handling the laundry on a regular basis. Again, not because we agreed to those terms but I don't know, I just did it.

I am the one that usually takes care of the dirty dishes. I just do them and I don't keep count. Same is true when it comes to preparing meals or housecleaning. Someone just does it.

 

[Mike]

Here's a funny thing. I have decided since long ago, that I am the one to do laundry. This is part of my neat-freakness that divides our notion of "clean". I have a way of doing laundry, taking the clothes out one by one (keeping the drying going) and hanging them up in a certain direction - oh yeah... I'm OCD. My wife throws everything in the basket and brings them to our room. ed! so, we settled on what we've settled on. When I do dinner, I clean things as I'm done with them. She leaves everything in a heap until we're done with dinner. Who's right? :

Point is, we need to allow for differences. No two people have the same idea of how to keep things in order. As I said in my first response, you made a vow. I'll repeat: You made a vow. God blessed that vow. With all things that only you can understand, you need to see where things can be reconciled. It seems you are going to have to give some, and so is she.

 

[PouringRain]

I think this must be the first thread I have ever seen with soooo many clean freak males. I feel as though I have entered some sort of alternate universe.

 

[WIP]

Here's a funny thing. I have decided since long ago, that I am the one to do laundry. This is part of my neat-freakness that divides our notion of "clean". I have a way of doing laundry, taking the clothes out one by one (keeping the drying going) and hanging them up in a certain direction - oh yeah... I'm OCD. My wife throws everything in the basket and brings them to our room. ed! so, we settled on what we've settled on. When I do dinner, I clean things as I'm done with them. She leaves everything in a heap until we're done with dinner. Who's right? :

Point is, we need to allow for differences. No two people have the same idea of how to keep things in order. As I said in my first response, you made a vow. I'll repeat: You made a vow. God blessed that vow. With all things that only you can understand, you need to see where things can be reconciled. It seems you are going to have to give some, and so is she.

Are you married to my wife too?

 

[WIP]

I do sympathize with you, mcorton. I've been married twice. My first wife was a terrible housekeeper and it was a source of strife in our marriage. Looking back in the rear view mirror, I pressured her a lot about this topic.

Like you my mother was a great housekeeper, took care of all the laundry including hanging them outside to dry year 'round, she ironed our clothes, did all the cooking including the dishes afterwards until we kids got old enough to do them, did all the grocery shopping, took on outside work to help out with the income, and raised seven children pretty much alone including all the running for school and other activities as my dad's job took him away a lot. If anyone had a right to complain about not having help it was my mother.

I think I grew up expecting that this is how things were supposed to be and so I expected the same from my wife. I actually feel that was a big part of the reason for her infidelity (multiple incidents), which eventually led to our divorce. I believe I placed demand upon her that she felt she couldn't live up to and so she gave up on our marriage. Yes, I asked for a divorce because of her unfaithfulness but I have often asked myself which of us was truly unfaithful.

When I remarried I made a decision that I would try to avoid pressing my ideals upon my wife with regard to shared responsibilities. In other words, I decided to love her for who she is and not for who I want her to be. It has not been easy except that my current wife is a little better in regard to our shared responsibilities. There are times when I feel I'm being taken for granted but I'm sure if you asked her she'd say the same thing. Occasionally she'll make a comment to let me know too. She'll ask me to help with something like running a vacuum cleaner or mopping a floor, etc. I rarely ask her to help out. When I feel something needs doing, I just do it but sometimes she does it first.

 

[Mike]

Are you married to my wife too?

hmm... I'm going to have to check her ATM withdrawal locations. She was "at 7th grade winter camp with our daughter" this past week. I'll have to question some witnesses.

 

[PraiseHimFirst]

I don't really have time to read all the lengthy responses so if I say/ask something that was already covered, I apologize.
One, do you have kids and does she work? If you both work, I think you should share the housework. If she doesn't work then I think that the majority of the housework should certainly fall on her. I am a stay at home mom and I can't imagine not doing any housework. Even when I worked I did the majority of it. Every day I run the dishwasher, one or two loads of clothes, sweep/vacuum/mop, wipe down sinks/toilets, keeps surfaces clutter free in kitchen and living room and make sure my sons room stays clean. This is just the minimum. I'm not judging her but I can't imagine my husband coming home to anything else. It might sound silly, but I think- If Jesus knocked on my door right now, would I be too embarrassed to let him in?