Lose Your Salvation in Two Easy Steps

[glorydaz]

There is a reason why there seems to be as many verses that seem to promote OSAS as condemn it. This is because we have 2 different natures (as Christians). One needs to stay down, the other needs to be uplifted and edified. We must let the truth hit us in the right places....not dragging down one verse to seemingly support another.

Those who promote a blanket OSAS are not being honest about the content of the bible.

I suppose you think it's edifying to the body to claim God is unable to keep his own.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Who, pray tell, would be supporting a doctrine that denies the power of God?

We have been bought with a price....

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

 

[Elf]

You are assuming that man cannot anything right on any level. So Jesus was actually condemning the "good" Samaritan because He wasn't Christian.

Nope! All I am suggesting is you have taken that out of context and used it to support your shaky anti OSAS case.

Was Jesus teaching divine righteousness or human righteousness when He taught about the "good" Samaritan? Is this something we can do on our own, or do we need apostolic power to pick up a man lying on the ground?

So you are saying we are saved by our own righteousness? Do you realize what you are saying here?

 

[Adullam]

Elf...Are you making up the rules as well as arguing a particular point? You do not answer my questions. I am trying to enlighten your mind to a greater possibility. Rather than judge me and pigeon-hole me....try seeing the logic. You won't go to hell for trying on a different understanding. Compare rather to the bible...the whole bible.

 

[Adullam]

[/quote]Nope! All I am suggesting is you have taken that out of context and used it to support your shaky anti OSAS case.[/quote]


Was Jesus teaching divine righteousness or human righteousness when He taught about the "good" Samaritan? Is this something we can do on our own, or do we need apostolic power to pick up a man lying on the ground?[/quote]So you are saying we are saved by our own righteousness? Do you realize what you are saying here?[/quote]


Good question! God saves us through righteousness and in righteousness...both kinds. He is a righteous God. He loves righteousness.

Jesus came to call the unrighteous to repentance...not the righteous. This is not properly understood in our day.

"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." God does not condemn righteousnes in any form. This is crucial for believers to understand. We must cease to persecute the righteous in order to establish our own righteousness.

Are we to be judged by our beliefs..or our works?? Is it the belief of the apostles...or the Acts of the apostles. Are hearers of the law justified? If we judge others as unrighteous....will we not be judged by God???

 

[Elf]

Elf...Are you making up the rules as well as arguing a particular point?

No, there is only one rule, scripture.

You do not answer my questions. I am trying to enlighten your mind to a greater possibility

I noticed, and I disagree with you. I am trying to do the same but obviously you are just tossing it aside. So, where are we now? who is doing what?

Rather than judge me and pigeon-hole me....try seeing the logic.

At one time in my early Christian years I believed this same way as you. So, don't try so hard.

You won't go to hell for trying on a different understanding.

Are you making up rules now?

Compare rather to the bible...the whole bible.

 

[Adullam]

By eliminating the human element we become spectators and cheerleaders for Jesus!!!! He does it for us???? We pay Him praises (lip-service) and He does the performing!

Best not to get involved in spiritual things, eh!?? ;)

 

[Elf]

Jesus came to call the unrighteous to repentance...not the righteous.

This is not properly understood in our day.

Obviously.
Do you know what Jesus meant by the righteous?
The self righteous, those who live by their own righteousness.

"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." God does not condemn righteousnes in any form. This is crucial for believers to understand. We must cease to persecute the righteous in order to establish our own righteousness.

You want me to take the time and understand what you are teaching, please really consider what Jesus is teaching here.

This righteousness is the puffed up self righteousness.

Are we to be judged by our beliefs..or our works?? Is it the belief of the apostles...or the Acts of the apostles. Are hearers of the law justified? If we judge others as unrighteous....will we not be judged by God???

If you are teaching what you have been taught I feel bad for you. Manipulation in the finest.

 

[AVBunyan]

Paul deals with all of your statements in one verse :

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
Rom 11:20 Well; by their unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee.

No, brother. That does not deal with all the verses posted. Which are not his "statements", by the way, but the Word of God. The branches were broken of for unbelief. This is speaking of the nation of Israel, who were not saved people. The gentiles will not be spared for unbelief, either.

Maybe you should address the scriptures given instead of brushing them off with one verse that does not even mean what you imply.

Thanks for dealing with this glory - I've grown weary of explaining those verses which are dealing with Israel as a nation.

 

[Elf]

By eliminating the human element we become spectators and cheerleaders for Jesus!!!!

The human righteousness element? We become cheerleaders? How so?

He does it for us???? We pay Him praises (lip-service) and He does the performing!

Ok, ok, so lets help Jesus save us, right?

Best not to get involved in spiritual things, eh!?? ;)

First we have to get you there.

 

[AVBunyan]

Still waiting for you lose-its to deal with these verses - I've dealt with most of yours:
Explain these please:
1) Get God to un-forgive you – Eph. 1:7
When we judge others and do not forgive them
2) Get God to un-redeem you - Rom. 3:24
When we return to the previous condition of rebellion.
3) Get God to un-circumcise you – Col. 2:13
When we block out the voice of God in our hearts. (A heart can even do it's own bypass around a blocked vein)

4) Get God to un-adopt you – Rom. 8:15

When we run away and deny Him. If you deny Me I will also deny you.

5) Get God to un-seat you – Eph. 2:6
When we walk in our own ways

6) Get God to un-sanctify you – I Cor. 6:11

When we mix what is holy with the world

7) Get God to un-glorify you – Rom. 8:30

When we fall short of His glory

8) Get God to un-seal you – Eph. 1:13

We remain sealed for the judgment seat of Christ. The verdict is pending.

9) Get God to un-justify you – Rom. 3:24; 8:30

When we follow after unrighteousness.

10) Get God to un-bless you – Eph. 1:3

When we curse others.

11) Get God to un-bury you – Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12

When we take up our old lives again.

12) Get God to un-raise you – Eph. 2:6

When we follow dead works.

13) Get God to un-quicken you – Eph. 2:1

When we walk in unbelief.

14) Get God to take Christ out of you – Col. 1:27

When we exchange the truth of God for a lie.

15) Get God to take you out of Christ's physical body – Eph. 5:30

When we deny the power of God while keeping up appearances.

Sorry - you never EXPLAINED the verses - you just made up hypothetical situations out of thin air. Did you even read the verses? I am bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh - Eph. - explain how I can come out of Christ's physical body on my own power or show me where God takes the saint out of Christ's body!

BTW - please define scriptural justification for us.

 

[glorydaz]

i did say i lean towards eternal security did i not.

i have and want to see the grey areas reconciled

ie moses rebelled and died for it when he disboyed the lord's comment

then theres annias and saphira, were they saved or not, if so how can one lie to the holy spirit and still love him. i think it would drive me nuts like being bi did and sitting in church thinking that i was ok.

Well, we know Moses was saved, even though he died before entering into the promised land.
We can die physically, without dying spiritually. We often suffer in the flesh for rebellion.

By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment. By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

And we see him here on the Mt. of Transfiguration.

And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

God only knows about Anninias and Saphira...he alone knows the heart, but their sin seemed to be "lying to the Holy Spirit". That isn't the same as denying the power of God or attributing His power to satan (blaspheming the Holy Spirit), so I would lean toward their losing their physical lives and not necessarily their spiritual life. The same is true of Saul. We human's can speculate, at best. When one considers what David did and others in the Bible, I hate to presume who God deems saved or unsaved. We do know that the Judge of the whole earth will do right.

 

[jasoncran]

wow, i thought i mad it hard to grasp.

a few decent explanations how some chrurches state the eternal security bit and i'm sold.

of course by prayer first then the biblical explanations

interesting ,never seen it that way

with moses, i knew that he wasnt cast out, just wasnt sure how he fit in.
with annias and saphira that is helpful

 

[Elf]

wow, i thought i mad it hard to grasp.

a few decent explanations how some chrurches state the eternal security bit and i'm sold.

of course by prayer first then the biblical explanations

interesting ,never seen it that way

with moses, i knew that he wasnt cast out, just wasnt sure how he fit in.
with annias and saphira that is helpful

So, you lean which way?

 

[Elf]

You know for twenty years I believed a Christian could loose their salvation. What a miserable time that was. I worried during the day, at night, and always worried if I died before I prayed up, so to say. There is no peace in that. I am glad I do not believe that false gospel any longer. Praise God!

 

[jasoncran]

eternal security
but with this if one is saved one will want to change and produce fruits and though one fails the lord forsake you, he will chastise thee, and will do so get you change


hmm i have a few other questions, but i will ask them when i can think of how to word them

not so much false, just error.
at least with the way i was taught.
same can be said of the calvinstic doctrine or the charismatic one

 

[AVBunyan]

Folks - you need to study the body of Christ and how unique it is and different than any other body or time period. Using Moses, the Gospels, and Acts, etc. as examples won't cut it when you are dealing with the body of Christ.

Study Paul's revelation of the mystery in Ephesians and Colossians.

Until you have some understanding of the body of Christ then you will never get OSAS right.

 

[Elf]

eternal security
but with this if one is saved one will want to change and produce fruits and though one fails the lord forsake you, he will chastise thee, and will do so get you change

I agree.

hmm i have a few other questions, but i will ask them when i can think of how to word them

Ok.

 

[Elf]

Folks - you need to study the body of Christ and how unique it is and different than any other body or time period. Using Moses, the Gospels, and Acts, etc. as examples won't cut it when you are dealing with the body of Christ.

Study Paul's revelation of the mystery in Ephesians and Colossians.

Until you have some understanding of the body of Christ then you will never get OSAS right.

I have a sense you are walking on farther then what scripture is teaching (speculation)? I'm probably wrong, so could you give one example please?

 

[jasoncran]

from my expercience.
not hypothetical

i went into bisexual lifestyle a few weeks after honestly repenting.
when i went to chruch i would try to ignore that the lord was saying you are in sin, and need to repent. the longer i did this the easier it was to be with my man. :crazy

was i saved then? i'm not sure others say yes.

i am no longer bi. i repented a month later or thereabouts

i can say that as i refuse to repent the more and more i wanted to get away from God and stay in my sin, i wanted to be bi and beleived that i was born that way and thought that christian ought not to judge me and tell me that i cant be bi as the lord wanted me to be happy.

 

[Elf]

from my expercience.
not hypothetical

i went into bisexual lifestyle a few weeks after honestly repenting.
when i went to chruch i would try to ignore that the lord was saying you are in sin, and need to repent. the longer i did this the easier it was to be with my man. :crazy

was i saved then? i'm not sure others say yes.

i am no longer bi. i repented a month later or thereabouts

i can say that as i refuse to repent the more and more i wanted to get away from God and stay in my sin, i wanted to be bi and beleived that i was born that way and thought that christian ought not to judge me and tell me that i cant be bi as the lord wanted me to be happy.

Well the Lord does not let those who are His go.
He leaves the 99 to bring back the one straying.