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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Losing Salvation after getting saved?
- Thread starter jonahmano
- Start date
Am I wrong brother that in the past you mentioned that the crown given two portions of the church was eternal life? That would be the Smyrna and Philadelphia churches noted in Rev 2:10 & Rev 3:10. We then read later in Rev 4:4 where that the 24 elders had on their heads crowns of gold. What crown do you suppose that is? Next I read in Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne. Think they were turning in their eternal life?
I just asked another I consider a brother in the Lord if they believe they possessed eternal life; do you think you do at this time? Thanks.
I will continue to posses eternal life, as long as I do the work... of believing.
If I stop believing, and begin to tempted to pursue a carnal lifestyle... now read carefully what I am about to say...
The Spirit of God will call me back, but if I choose to stiffen my neck and resist the Lord, and rebel against His voive, my heart will become hardened more and more as I depart from the living God until I am disqualified.
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?--unless indeed you are disqualified!
2 Corinthians 13:5
Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-15
Here is an important principle about belief and unbelief.
Without obeying, I show by my actions that I don't believe.
In other words UNBELIEF AND DISOBEDIENCE ARE THE SAME THING.
"You might say - show me that in the bible"
I glad you asked!
Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Hebrews 4:6 KJV
Same Greek word is rendered disobedience in the NKJV, is rendered unbelief in the KJV
How will you be able to hear and obey God with a hardened heart?
You will have departed from the Living God, leaving Him only to reach out to you through other people and possibly a slow death with cancer of something in hopes you will repent, knowing the end for you is at hand.
Paul actually used Satan to do this very thing.
5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 CORINTHIANS 5:5
JLB
Thanks brother; I think the same. Do you think you have been purchased to God such as we read of in Acts 20:28? , . . the church of God, which He hath purchased with his own blood.
With that said John 6:39 goes on to say, And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me (This is the body of Christ; the church) I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. These are my beliefs and if you have read the pamphlet I wrote you might understand the reason I do.
Salvation with Security – 1, 2, 3
http://www.christianforums.net/Fell...ds/salvation-with-security-parts-1-2-3.52236/
Blessings in Christ Jesus.
May I ask what work of believing do you do? Do you observe the Sabbath Day or something like that; is that what you're referring to, or do you mean that you haven't yet become an atheist? I'm attempting to keep this down to single ideas or questions so we can come to or not agree on scripture.
Why don't we write out the scripture that is pertinent to our discussion, one at a time.
angel page
Member
Yes, I know what eternal life is thank you.
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2.14: Please do not use the message board to air your grievances against other fellow members. If you have observed a violation of the Terms of Service please let a Moderator or Administrator know. (This includes violations or allegations of inappropriate actions by the moderators and administration.) If the grievance is with a staff member please contact them privately. If you deem it necessary to go beyond that, you are advised to start a new thread in the ‘Talk With the Staff’ forum area. If a member disagrees with a Moderator's action, they are not to take their dispute public. (see 1.3)
1.3: If you feel that any action taken was unfair, it can be appealed. To appeal an action taken against you by CF.net staff, you are advised to start a new thread in the ‘Talk With the Staff’ forum area. Threads in this forum are viewable only by the person initiating the thread and CF.net staff. In this private venue, anyone on the CF.net staff may respond, and the OP can address his/her concerns with regard to the action taken. This forum is intended only for appeals to actions by CF.net staff. TWTS area may also be used, according to Staff discretion, for other expedient purpose of communication. If a member disagrees with a Moderator's action, they are not to take their dispute public.
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angel page
Member
Comments Deleted
2.14: Please do not use the message board to air your grievances against other fellow members. If you have observed a violation of the Terms of Service please let a Moderator or Administrator know. (This includes violations or allegations of inappropriate actions by the moderators and administration.) If the grievance is with a staff member please contact them privately. If you deem it necessary to go beyond that, you are advised to start a new thread in the ‘Talk With the Staff’ forum area. If a member disagrees with a Moderator's action, they are not to take their dispute public. (see 1.3)
1.3: If you feel that any action taken was unfair, it can be appealed. To appeal an action taken against you by CF.net staff, you are advised to start a new thread in the ‘Talk With the Staff’ forum area. Threads in this forum are viewable only by the person initiating the thread and CF.net staff. In this private venue, anyone on the CF.net staff may respond, and the OP can address his/her concerns with regard to the action taken. This forum is intended only for appeals to actions by CF.net staff. TWTS area may also be used, according to Staff discretion, for other expedient purpose of communication. If a member disagrees with a Moderator's action, they are not to take their dispute public.
2.14: Please do not use the message board to air your grievances against other fellow members. If you have observed a violation of the Terms of Service please let a Moderator or Administrator know. (This includes violations or allegations of inappropriate actions by the moderators and administration.) If the grievance is with a staff member please contact them privately. If you deem it necessary to go beyond that, you are advised to start a new thread in the ‘Talk With the Staff’ forum area. If a member disagrees with a Moderator's action, they are not to take their dispute public. (see 1.3)
1.3: If you feel that any action taken was unfair, it can be appealed. To appeal an action taken against you by CF.net staff, you are advised to start a new thread in the ‘Talk With the Staff’ forum area. Threads in this forum are viewable only by the person initiating the thread and CF.net staff. In this private venue, anyone on the CF.net staff may respond, and the OP can address his/her concerns with regard to the action taken. This forum is intended only for appeals to actions by CF.net staff. TWTS area may also be used, according to Staff discretion, for other expedient purpose of communication. If a member disagrees with a Moderator's action, they are not to take their dispute public.
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While I oft enjoy debate I'm coming more to the conclusion that we; me included convinced of something against our will are of the same opinion still. Possibly allowing the use of scripture only is the answer, and if God's word such as the word eternal isn't sufficient in itself I have no need of telling it like I see it.
Blessings to all in Jesus' name.
While I oft enjoy debate I'm coming more to the conclusion that we; me included convinced of something against our will are of the same opinion still. Possibly allowing the use of scripture only is the answer, and if God's word such as the word eternal isn't sufficient in itself I have no need of telling it like I see it.
Blessings to all in Jesus' name.
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Gregg
Member
JLB,
Do you see in the Scriptures that work and faith [believing or having faith] have tension between them, unless the work is also done by faith? And we are not alone in the works that we do; we have the Holy Spirit who helps us. A work without faith is not pleasing to God, and so even the work itself must be born of faith; and faith is of God.
Work is expected of us whether it is physical or spiritual, where faith is a gift made possible by the Lord. By grace we are saved through faith - and that is not of ourselves . . . it is given to us.
The Gospel by which we are saved by no means insinuates that a believer must work [or sustain his faith] to keep himself saved. This is why you and Jethro_Bodine and the non-OSAS disciples do not include this in the gospel that you teach. If you were to include it, you would be modifying the gospel message . . . oh, but you are indeed modifying the gospel here and now; you just don't tell unbelievers about it while you are witnessing to them.
Salvation is of God - before, during, and forever. It is brought about by the will of God, and He sustains our salvation, and He has given believers His Spirit as a pledge [as earnest] that He will fulfill His promise.
"so shall My word be, which goes out of My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in what I sent it to do!" (Isa 55:11). If someone hears the gospel and as a result is saved - then we can know that it is because God has procured that believer and He will keep him so as to finish what He began. God did not save us, and then leave for us to bring it to completion, that it may or may not return to Him void. Just as God sent the Word into the world to accomplish our salvation, so the work that He begins in us will be completed by Him, even as Jesus Christ completed that for which His Father sent Him. My faith is in Him alone.
Knowing the will of God regarding the elect, I confidently understand that Paul had salvation in mind [and perhaps also the Philippians financial support] when he wrote, "being persuaded of this very thing, that the One having begun a good work in you will finish it until the day of Jesus Christ;" (Php 1:6); this in light of Isa 55:11. Paul was persuaded of this knowing that God finishes what He begins. God does not begin and let us finish. If we are saved by Him, then we have eternal life and we can not lose our salvation.
how does God know them? keeping Sabbath? (hint: is it a commandment or instruction of Yhwh to His people ? )
only eating clean food ? (hint: is it a commandment or instruction of Yhwh to His people ?
sin no more ? why do people have such a hard time with this? read 1 John. it is simple and true. (and what to do IF one of His people still happens to sin)
sell all and follow Jesus ? --- not serve 2 masters? like Yeshua said, with man this is impossible, with Yhwh all things are possible. Yhwh is well able to accomplish this for his people - who-so-ever puts and maintains their trust in Him and relies on Him.... (yes, many people have given up everything for Jesus, directly unlike the rich young man and most of today's goers2church. (still required by Jesus) ... not a big percentage of people, only a remnant, but Yhwh will guide all those who trust in Him and they will talk one to another as in Malachi )
I believe Jesus Christ is my Lord.
That means Master.
So when My Master LEDs me to do something, I obey.
Because I believe He is My Lord and Master.
As He said -
Why do you call Me Lord, but do not do what I say?
JLB
Please show me the scripture where Jesus and His Apostles gave the command to keep the Sabbath.
JLB
What faith is a faith if it's not tested. And when you are tested you must come forth as gold and that's where the work begins. When Abraham went to sacrifice Isaac it was the test of faith and he passed the test by working on it and not just believing.
Our God is a zealous God and he wants the body of Christ to be zealous. Grace preachers make the true believers of Christ as simply sitting Christians.
Let me qualify faith.
Whenever we see the phrase in the Bible; "by faith"...
It is a reference to:
Hearing God command you, and obeying what God commands you to do.
Nothing less.
If one of those two ingredients is missing from the recipe called faith, then it is not a living, valid faith.
It is dead faith, or really DISOBEDIENCE! = UNBELIEF
FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD!
WORKS = THE OBEDIENCE THAT FAITH REQUIRES.
By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. HEBREWS 11:7
The standard of faith is obedience.
The standard of righteousness is obedience.
JLB
