Mental Illness Vs Demonic Possession?

[Strangelove]

Don't bother. I'm not going to engage you.

Uhm....ok?

I was just gonna say that I think Jesus was using a parable in those verses regarding that generation of Jews. And possibly a prophetic one at that.

Barnes notes covers it quite nicely:

"The state of that man was a representation of that generation of people. Much might be done to cure their unbelief, much to reform them externally; but such was the firm hold which the principles of infidelity and wickedness had taken of their minds "as their proper habitation," that they would return, after all the means used to reform them, and they would be worse and worse. And this was literally accomplished. After all the instructions and miracles of the Saviour and his apostles; after all that had been done for them by holy people and prophets, and by the judgments and mercies of God; and after all their external temporary reformations - like the temporary departure of an evil spirit from a man possessed - yet such was their love of wickedness that the nation became worse and worse. They increased in crime, like the seven-fold misery and wretchedness of the man into whose bosom the seven additional evil spirits came. They rejected God's messengers, abused his mercies, crucified his Son, and God gave their temple, and capital, and nation into the hands of the Romans. and thousands of the people to destruction."

 

[musicayla]

if you live for God, dont worry the demons will tremble and they will avoid you with a passion.

It's not me I'm afraid of/for...it's potential psych patients I'll be encountering this semester. And, well, the rest of my career, really.

 

[theLords]

It's not me I'm afraid of/for...it's potential psych patients I'll be encountering this semester. And, well, the rest of my career, really.

Here's a little tip for you that God gave me: before counseling anyone pray and ask the Lord to put the cross of Christ between you and that person. The cross of Christ is incredible protection!

 

[Evointrinsic]

TheLords; the issue that I have with that is that those strange occurrences can happen with everyday illnesses and psychological factors. I had a girlfriend that had an extreme case of OCD in which she had to do a lot of things precisely or it would drive her crazy (both literally and not depending). If there was a dead leaf on the ground she HAD to step on it, even if it was across the street. The same thing can be said about closing open books.

I have an uncle who is schizophrenic, see's things that aren't there, has nearly killed a few people and so on and so forth.

A lot of these things can be explained in fairly basic medical terms.

Now, What exactly is the difference between these things and demonic possession?

 

[musicayla]

The people who get to know are the people who need to know. Everyone has a different calling in the Lord. Casting out demons is not to be taken lightly, but usually requires days of prayer and fasting. Also the person who will be delivered needs to want to find salvation because the Bible says that 7 demons may return in it's place.



If one is filled with the Holy Spirit one cannot be demonically possessed.

I lived with a demonically possessed person for a year.

[/QUOTE]


Wow..that's an intense story. Thanks for sharing!

 

[musicayla]

Here's a little tip for you that God gave me: before counseling anyone pray and ask the Lord to put the cross of Christ between you and that person. The cross of Christ is incredible protection!

Thank you. I appreciate your insight

 

[theLords]

TheLords; the issue that I have with that is that those strange occurrences can happen with everyday illnesses and psychological factors. I had a girlfriend that had an extreme case of OCD in which she had to do a lot of things precisely or it would drive her crazy (both literally and not depending). If there was a dead leaf on the ground she HAD to step on it, even if it was across the street. The same thing can be said about closing open books.

I have an uncle who is schizophrenic, see's things that aren't there, has nearly killed a few people and so on and so forth.

A lot of these things can be explained in fairly basic medical terms.

Now, What exactly is the difference between these things and demonic possession?

Well, my dear, there is much more to the case that I presented, but I'm not willing to give further details for personal reasons, so alas, you will remain unconvinced, as I knew you would.

The difference between the two is one is mental (brain chemical imbalances) and the other is supernatural which can only be exposed to those who are in tune to the Spiritual realm.

 

[theLords]

Thank you. I appreciate your insight

You're welcome! I hope it has cleared up some of your questions. You are insightful yourself and God will answer your questions (through personal experience) if you ask Him! BUT PLEASE keep in mind that the Lord will give you insight into the 'dark side' of things in His perfect timing. Knowledge of the darkness of Satan can sometimes feel like a very big burden to carry. Sometimes it seems overwhelming. So if you want to ask for that kind of insight keep that in mind.

Giving that burden to the Lord was comforting, but in the beginning it was certainly a cross I had to bear. The 'resurrection' side of it, though, is it has given me a unique heart for the lost and the ability to cut right through the 'darkness' of Satan to bring the Light of Christ.

 

[Evointrinsic]

It seems rather dangerous to look at medical issues using the eye glass of faith though, would it not? After all, the dark ages did a lot of that.

 

[musicayla]

It seems rather dangerous to look at medical issues using the eye glass of faith though, would it not? After all, the dark ages did a lot of that.

If it spirals out of control, yes. However, we are all very aware of the fact that Satan is a very real entity in today's world. Which means demon possession is a real threat. While I firmly believe many people with a mental illness have such because of a chemical imbalance or because of a "trigger", I can't not believe that there is a small few who are, in fact, possessed. Not mearly a prisoner of their own mind.

Look at it this way: There are medical miracles that happen every day that no scientist or doctor can explain. One that comes to mind is a person diagnosed with cancer who was supposed to lose a leg because of osteosarcoma (bone cancer.) They did scans, were getting ready to start treatment. She was prayed over by Christians and, when they re-scanned her leg prior to surgery, found the cancer had shrunk with no treatment. No logical-thinking doctor can say that happened purely through medicine. So...if not medicine, then what?

 

[theLords]

It seems rather dangerous to look at medical issues using the eye glass of faith though, would it not? After all, the dark ages did a lot of that.

You're an atheist, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. It's simply not something you can understand because you don't believe in a supernatural realm. So I'll ignore your little dark ages comment ;)

There are many who have been healed in the name of Jesus Christ from chemical imbalance that causes bi-polar disorder or schizophrenia and many who have been healed in the name of Jesus Christ of demonic possession.

Simply give thanks that you're not one who has to deal with such things, but are blessed to be healthy and happy.

 

[Evointrinsic]

If it spirals out of control, yes. However, we are all very aware of the fact that Satan is a very real entity in today's world.

are you including me in "all"?

Look at it this way: There are medical miracles that happen every day that no scientist or doctor can explain. One that comes to mind is a person diagnosed with cancer who was supposed to lose a leg because of osteosarcoma (bone cancer.) They did scans, were getting ready to start treatment. She was prayed over by Christians and, when they re-scanned her leg prior to surgery, found the cancer had shrunk with no treatment. No logical-thinking doctor can say that happened purely through medicine. So...if not medicine, then what?

I completely agree that there are things we cannot yet explain and may never be able to. but that doesn't necessarily constitute supernatural causes. A muslim could tell you the same story although with muslims praying, would you convert because of that?

The point i'm trying to make is that there are cases all over the world with all different kinds of religions having very similar, if not the exact same stories with the same way of curing these bad cases which is through their own personal religion/belief. It seems a bit odd that all of them are correct?

 

[Christ_empowered]

I don't think its always either/or. I had an experience, which ended in being hospitalized and given a rather severe diagnosis, that I believe was partly due to dark forces. I lost a lot of weight, I looked younger than my age, I couldn't focus or operate normally, I heard voices, and I even had some ESP-ish/pre-cognition going on. I was also playing with tarot cards and engaging in decidedly un-Christian behavior (this was before God grabbed a hold of me).

After God got a hold of me, I still needed meds, but..they actually started WORKING. I think there's a strong spiritual component to most mental illnesses, probably more so in the more severe forms of mental illness, but I think drugs AND Christianity can co-exist nicely.

Anyway, if I miraculously became a shrink who could tell people to pray w/o getting in trouble, I would probably put people on the lowest dose of meds to help control the symptoms and see if they still needed it as they progressed spiritually. Although the standard line is "drug treatment for life," lots of people stop taking their meds, get taken off their meds, or only take their meds under periods of severe stress (especially antipsychotics). Personally, daily medication works best for me...I guess its up to each individual (and his/her doc) to figure out what to do.

 

[Evointrinsic]

You're an atheist, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. It's simply not something you can understand because you don't believe in a supernatural realm. So I'll ignore your little dark ages comment

But if it's a faith thing then it's based on nothing physical, so there would be no way of telling if it was a demon at all, it would have to be speculation. And that's what I find dangerous, the speculation aspect of it all. I'm not saying that there is no such thing as a demon, i'm just saying that we can't base medical sciences off of speculation. And regardless if you want to ignore the dark ages comment or not, that did in fact happen, and the reason it did was because of the conjoined medical science with 'doctors' treating it as demonic possession, witchcraft and other supernatural causes. That's a fact.

 

[musicayla]

. And that's what I find dangerous, the speculation aspect of it all. .

Sadly, that's what about 99% of neurological medicine is is speculation. Sure, we can SEE meningitis on an LP, we can SEE growths, tumors, hematomas, strokes, etc on an MRI or CT. But what about MS? ALS? Alzheimers? You name a neuro disease, and the likelihood of it being diagnosed with some tests and scans is slim to none. Many of those diseases are diagnosed by eliminating other diseases...putting a patient on a medication, and crossing our fingers and hoping it works. Many psych diseases are diagnosed much the same way. The DSM-IV is more of a....recommendation than an air-tight way to diagnose mental illness.

 

[theLords]

But if it's a faith thing then it's based on nothing physical, so there would be no way of telling if it was a demon at all, it would have to be speculation. And that's what I find dangerous, the speculation aspect of it all. I'm not saying that there is no such thing as a demon, i'm just saying that we can't base medical sciences off of speculation. And regardless if you want to ignore the dark ages comment or not, that did in fact happen, and the reason it did was because of the conjoined medical science with 'doctors' treating it as demonic possession, witchcraft and other supernatural causes. That's a fact.

That's the thing, you can absolutely tell and know when it is a demon, but you refuse to accept that fact because you can't accept it. The Bible says, Luke 16:31 (ESV) "He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead."

I'm ignoring the dark ages comment because it's merely a snipe at Christianity. You can believe as you see fit, but those who have been delivered from demonic possession are singing God's praises and I will joyfully praise God with them.

Believe me, you don't want understanding in the area of the realm of Satan, it is a dangerous place to get understanding in or 'play' in.

Unlike the dark ages where things were as you described, those who seek deliverance from demonic possession from a Christian in the name of Christ do so by their own will and desire. No one forces anyone to receive healing in that area. As I mentioned in my posts beforehand, going around trying to cast devils out of everyone is a dangerous thing to do.

 

[Adstar]

So what your saying is that only specific people can know if someone was possessed, and even then they can't really know the signs and/or symptoms of being possessed?

That doesn't seem very efficient. Why not give everyone the ability?

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->I guess why isn't everyone on earth a Doctor.. Simple answer. We don't need everyone to be a Doctor.

Scriptures state that many different gifts are given but individuals don't get them all. It may be a way for God to foster community, knowing we need all types to make up the Body of Christ.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

TheLords; the issue that I have with that is that those strange occurrences can happen with everyday illnesses and psychological factors. I had a girlfriend that had an extreme case of OCD in which she had to do a lot of things precisely or it would drive her crazy (both literally and not depending). If there was a dead leaf on the ground she HAD to step on it, even if it was across the street. The same thing can be said about closing open books.

I have an uncle who is schizophrenic, see's things that aren't there, has nearly killed a few people and so on and so forth.

A lot of these things can be explained in fairly basic medical terms.

Now, What exactly is the difference between these things and demonic possession?

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->They might be demonic possessed. But i do not know. If there was someone with the gift of discerning spirits then they would be able to examine them and tell you.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

It seems rather dangerous to look at medical issues using the eye glass of faith though, would it not? After all, the dark ages did a lot of that.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->There is always the danger of charlatans running around claiming they have this power or that. The world today is full of them, pulling tricks and deceiving many. But that does not detract from the fact that some may be genuine and have the ability to discern spirits.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[jasoncran]

Sadly, that's what about 99% of neurological medicine is is speculation. Sure, we can SEE meningitis on an LP, we can SEE growths, tumors, hematomas, strokes, etc on an MRI or CT. But what about MS? ALS? Alzheimers? You name a neuro disease, and the likelihood of it being diagnosed with some tests and scans is slim to none. Many of those diseases are diagnosed by eliminating other diseases...putting a patient on a medication, and crossing our fingers and hoping it works. Many psych diseases are diagnosed much the same way. The DSM-IV is more of a....recommendation than an air-tight way to diagnose mental illness.

after having talked with my bro who had paranoid schizophrenia. he told me that was just an angry phase in his life and he just being mad and went on to do normal things.

he wasnt saved when that occured

1) he was missdiagnosed
2) he was healed
3) either way to god be the glory!