Mormonism

[Rick W]

He was shot dead in a jail cell. A mob stormed the jailhouse. It's been suggested someone smuggled a gun to him and when they came in he started shooting. That's not solidly substantiated but nonetheless he was killed by a mob while in jail.

Barbara,
Jesus Christ is not Satan's brother. God is not an exalted man from a planet circling the star Kolob. Jesus was not conceived in the natural manner but by Virgin Birth. And God does not practice polygamy in heaven cranking out spirit babies to populate the earth in the flesh.

 

[eagertolearn]

Barbara...I hope you're not taking offence to my comment. I'm by no means putting anyone down. I'm not here to judge anyone religons included. All I'm stating is common opinion. Take a look at this link for a better idea. (I hope I'm not violating anything by posting this link :-? )

http://christiananswers.net/q-aiia/aiia-top10cults.html

I'm not so sure on number 10 on the list though...

 

[Barbara Allan]

Barbara...I hope you're not taking offence to my comment. I'm by no means putting anyone down. I'm not here to judge anyone religons included. All I'm stating is common opinion. Take a look at this link for a better idea. (I hope I'm not violating anything by posting this link :-? )

http://christiananswers.net/q-aiia/aiia-top10cults.html

I'm not so sure on number 10 on the list though...

Oh, no, I'm just correcting the concept the LDS is a "cult". It is unorthodox and not especially Christian but people are free to come and go.

I read the link; it's all fairly accurate but he misuses the term "cult" (except in the case of Aryan Naions-they kill people who might provide evidence against them if they are charged with crimes).

 

[waitinontheLamb]

Barbara...I hope you're not taking offence to my comment. I'm by no means putting anyone down. I'm not here to judge anyone religons included. All I'm stating is common opinion. Take a look at this link for a better idea. (I hope I'm not violating anything by posting this link :-? )

http://christiananswers.net/q-aiia/aiia-top10cults.html

I'm not so sure on number 10 on the list though...

Oh, no, I'm just correcting the concept the LDS is a "cult". It is unorthodox and not especially Christian but people are free to come and go.

I read the link; it's all fairly accurate but he misuses the term "cult" (except in the case of Aryan Naions-they kill people who might provide evidence against them if they are charged with crimes).

Barbara do not be deceived. Mormonism is as much a cult as the heavens gaters or those who followed Jim Jones.

It is a cult without salvation and with a false Christ.

 

[waitinontheLamb]

Biblereader;

I am an ex-mormon. I was married in a mormon temple and served in many capacities. Actually came out and ended up falling back into it's snare at one point. Have been free of it's claws for about two years now, and for good.

Any specifics you would like to know?

Yes, why did you like Mormonism, and what religion are you now?
What drew you into, and back, into Mormonism
What is the best thing to say to these door knockers who come around trying to
convert me to their blasphemous religion?
What is a tripper upper reply, or question, to a Mormon?

Hey;

I liked mormonism because that is all I knew. I grew up in it being here in Salt Lake my whole life. I never knew much beyond and the brainwashing is extreme.

I now attend Calvary Chapel and am nothing more then redeemed dirt.

I fell back into mormonism because I believe I left without much thought but very impulsively. I lost many important relationships when I left and the pull was too much. Basically I was weak.

I would say to concentrate on the main problem with them and that they believe in a different Jesus and Gordon B. Hinckley confirmed this. Ask them who Jesus is and if He is God. They do not believe so and this is the first of their problems.

I always use the "tie breaker" when witnessing. If they are right, I will go to a lesser kingdom of heaven which will be wonderful. If I am right, they will perish in hell forever.

Gives them something to think about.

 

[DavidLee]

I always use the "tie breaker" when witnessing. If they are right, I will go to a lesser kingdom of heaven which will be wonderful. If I am right, they will perish in hell forever.

Gives them something to think about.

I thought I was the only one to use an argument like this.
I explain this to Jehovah's Witnesses (not many Mormons around here).
If I'm wrong then I'll be annihilated and no worse off, but if I'm right, their eternity is not to be envied. I've yet to see one converted in front of me, but they can't fault the logic. I know they must think about it for a minute or two at least.

If I didn't know it came from the Holy Spirit, I'd have sworn I invented it.

 

[Rick W]

:


viewtopic.php?f=10&t=30434&p=356901&hilit=+still+ok#p356901

Tue Dec 25, 2007

If you're right then I'm ok and I need no salvation. But if I'm right then I'm still ok because I trust Christ saves me because He is faithful. To me that's a rather logical and rational statement. You're putting your faith on only one condition. Is that rational?

 

[Vic C.]

It's actually a variation of Pascal's Wager. ;-)

 

[Biblereader]

Ah. So members of "The Christian Coalition" are members of the Cult of Ralph Reed?

Judy Liebert was wrong.
And, Ralph Reed's only followers are his wife and children.
Why bring up Ralph Reed?
How much more nebulous and far reaching a target can there be, in a topic about Mormonism?

A cult, is a group that denies the bible, denies the Kingship of Jesus Christ, as Lord and the only way to Heaven, a cult emphasizes works over faith, a cult likes to isolate people from their families,
and, a cult or cultish group tends to spend money on worldly things.
When the leader says he is either God, or he speaks for God, then be suspicious.
Koresh was like that.
Rejection of the Trinity.
Another tag of a cult, is, the use of another book, as spiritually inspired by God, besides the bible.
Basically, a cult is ANY religion that goes against the New Testament.
Yes, that leaves out a lot of churches in existence today, doesn't it.
It's very hard to find a true, Gospel preaching, heaven or hell, bible believing church.
Where are the preachers who tell the truth about the Bible?

Anyways, Mormonism is a confused, convoluted religion. The Bible is not.
The Holy Bible is easy to understand, yet, it has depths of wisdom and knowledge that are astounding. One only has to look.

 

[Biblereader]

It's actually a variation of Pascal's Wager. ;-)

Was Blaise Pascal a born again Christian,or just a fancy pants mathematician?

 

[Catholic Crusader]

It's actually a variation of Pascal's Wager. ;-)

Was Blaise Pascal a born again Christian,or just a fancy pants mathematician?

No one is "born" a Christian

 

[Barbara Allan]

Barbara...I hope you're not taking offence to my comment. I'm by no means putting anyone down. I'm not here to judge anyone religons included. All I'm stating is common opinion. Take a look at this link for a better idea. (I hope I'm not violating anything by posting this link :-? )

http://christiananswers.net/q-aiia/aiia-top10cults.html

I'm not so sure on number 10 on the list though...

Oh, no, I'm just correcting the concept the LDS is a "cult". It is unorthodox and not especially Christian but people are free to come and go.

I read the link; it's all fairly accurate but he misuses the term "cult" (except in the case of Aryan Naions-they kill people who might provide evidence against them if they are charged with crimes).

Barbara do not be deceived. Mormonism is as much a cult as the heavens gaters or those who followed Jim Jones.

It is a cult without salvation and with a false Christ.

Just because one does not like the misuse of the term "cult" does not mean one is "deceived". To think one knows all the answers, though, that is the epitome of self-deception.

 

[Barbara Allan]

I always use the "tie breaker" when witnessing. If they are right, I will go to a lesser kingdom of heaven which will be wonderful. If I am right, they will perish in hell forever.

Not very convincing except to the insincere.

 

[Barbara Allan]

Why bring up Ralph Reed?
How much more nebulous and far reaching a target can there be, in a topic about Mormonism?

It's a comparison.

Bi: A cult, is a group that denies the bible, denies the Kingship of Jesus Christ, as Lord and the only way to Heaven, a cult emphasizes works over faith, a cult likes to isolate people from their families,
and, a cult or cultish group tends to spend money on worldly things.
When the leader says he is either God, or he speaks for God, then be suspicious.
Koresh was like that.
Rejection of the Trinity.
Another tag of a cult, is, the use of another book, as spiritually inspired by God, besides the bible.
Basically, a cult is ANY religion that goes against the New Testament.
[/quote]


Sorry, this is incorrect. "Cult" involves the use of force. It does not just mean a religion with which you disagree.

 

[Vic C.]

[quote="vic C.":0569a]It's actually a variation of Pascal's Wager. ;-)

Was Blaise Pascal a born again Christian,or just a fancy pants mathematician?

No one is "born" a Christian[/quote:0569a]
She said, Born-again, as in Born from above. She didn't ask if he was born a Christian. But now that you mention it, many Catholics believe being Catholic is some sort of birthright. Oops, off topic, sorry. :

Biblereade, I don't know for sure if Pascal was born again, don't care. I was just pointing out the similarities. ;-)

 

[Vic C.]

CHRISTIAN DEFINITION

CULT - Any group which deviates from Biblical, orthodox, historical Christianity. e.i. They deny the Deity of Christ; His physical resurrection; His personal and physical return to earth and salvation by FAITH alone.

This definition only covers those groups which are cults within the Christian religion. It does not cover cults within other world religions such as Islam and Hinduism. Nor does it cover Psychological, Commercial or Educational cults which do not recognize the Bible as a source of reality....

... OTHER IDENTIFICATION MARKS

(a) The group will have an ELITIST view of itself in relation to others, and a UNIQUE CAUSE. e.i. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES RIGHT - everyone else is wrong. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES DOING GOD'S WILL - everyone else is in apostasy.

(b) They will promote their cause actively, and in doing so, abuse God-given personal rights and freedoms. This abuse can be THEOLOGICAL, SPIRITUAL, SOCIAL & PSYCHOLOGICAL...

... SOME ABUSES OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS:-

1. ABUSE OF INDIVIDUALITY They adopt a "groupness" mentality. They are not permitted to think for themselves apart from the group and only accept what they are told.

2. ABUSE OF INTIMACY Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children, parents etc are broken or seriously hampered.

3. ABUSE OF FINANCES Pressure to give all you can to the group. In non-communal groups, members usually live at the lower socio-economic strata, not because of a lower income level, but because they are always giving money to the group for some reason.

4. "US VERSUS THEM" MENTALITY Isolation from the community in general. Anyone and everything outside the group is seen as "of the devil" or "unenlightened" etc. Their enemies now include former friends; the Christian church; governments; education systems; the media - the world in general. Those who are involved with these in any way see such involvement as a "means to an end".

5. ABUSE OF TIME AND ENERGY The group controls and uses almost all the members time and energy in group activities. They are usually in a constant state of mental and physical exhaustion.

6. ABUSE OF FREE WILL They must unquestioning submit to the groups teachings and directions and their own free will is broken. Their "will" actually becomes the groups "will" without their realizing it. This is done either by coercive methods including low protein diets and lack of sleep, or over a period of time through intimidation. Both methods make heavy use of "guilt".

http://www.religio.de/cudef.html

 

[waitinontheLamb]

Just because one does not like the misuse of the term "cult" does not mean one is "deceived". To think one knows all the answers, though, that is the epitome of self-deception.

And for one to think they have the answers and not take anything from someone who has lived the life is the epitome of arrogance.

You can hang on to your false notions about the mormons if you want but I have lived it. I have been in the bishopbric meetings to see the ploys being used. I have seen the use of outside programs to create better missionaries for the mormon church. I have seen the threatening and brainwashing being done that is created to keep people bound to it. I have seen the "tithing settlement" at the end of the year where you have to report a full tithing or make it up if you don't want to be kept from any of the "blessings of the Lord."

So fine, you can hang onto your false notions, but don't for a minute call me self deceived until you have the experience to do so. It is not me who is deceived.

 

[waitinontheLamb]

Why bring up Ralph Reed?
How much more nebulous and far reaching a target can there be, in a topic about Mormonism?

It's a comparison.

Bi: A cult, is a group that denies the bible, denies the Kingship of Jesus Christ, as Lord and the only way to Heaven, a cult emphasizes works over faith, a cult likes to isolate people from their families,
and, a cult or cultish group tends to spend money on worldly things.
When the leader says he is either God, or he speaks for God, then be suspicious.
Koresh was like that.
Rejection of the Trinity.
Another tag of a cult, is, the use of another book, as spiritually inspired by God, besides the bible.
Basically, a cult is ANY religion that goes against the New Testament.

Sorry, this is incorrect. "Cult" involves the use of force. It does not just mean a religion with which you disagree.[/quote]
So does the use of blood atonement for years count? Does that fit your view of a cult? It was a common practice for many years in the mormon church where anyone who broke their "covenents" from the temple could have their blood spilt to atone for their sin, cause there was some sins that the blood of Christ was incapable of forgiving.

Hmmmm, seems pretty cultish to me but then again, you are the authority.

 

[Vic C.]

So does the use of blood atonement for years count? Does that fit your view of a cult? It was a common practice for many years in the mormon church where anyone who broke their "covenents" from the temple could have their blood spilt to atone for their sin, cause there was some sins that the blood of Christ was incapable of forgiving.

Ouch! Curtis, I didn't know that. That's a form of penance not found to be Biblical and rebuked by God. It reminds me of the followers of Baal:

1 Ki 18:27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.
1 Ki 18:28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.

 

[Rick W]

Joseph Smith taught that there were certain sins so grievous that man may commit, that they will place the transgressors beyond the power of the atonement of Christ. If these offenses are committed, then the blood of Christ will not cleanse them from their sins even though they repent. Therefore their only hope is to have their own blood shed to atone, as far as possible, in their behalf" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp..134-135)

The "Death Society" - which carried out these killings in the last century - was also known as "Daughters of Gideon," "Avenging Angels," "Destroying Angels," or, in Brigham Young's reign, as "Sons of Thunder," "Sons of Dan," or "Danites" (from Genesis 49v17) and began its work in the midwest in the days of Joseph Smith and continued its work in Utah. Young can clearly be shown to have directed their attacks when, armed with the promise that they would be "gods," they assumed the power to avenge and take the lives of opponents or disobedient members, leaving their bodies littered on the ground - and inviting revenge attacks.

It wasn't just blood letting. They had to die.